First Tractor Questions

[boondocks]

Welfare is welfare never seen anyone not try to justify their welfare dollars.
It's just the other guys that is bad not mine mentality.

Unless you happen to live in actual/complete anarchy (and I'm not sure humans ever have), you can choose to look at any "benefit" a government provides (roads, military, tax breaks for corporations) as "welfare." So, I agree with your statement in bold above, and go further to say that based on a true definition of "welfare", there is not a single person or entity that doesn't benefit in some way from it.

Now, me personally, i don't really want to live in total anarchy, so I'm willing to have a nuanced, grown-up debate about what constitutes the permissible limits of government taxing and spending. But to claim that you, and I, and everyone else does not benefit from government (read taxpayer) dollars is naive.

(Are you refusing to cash those Social Security checks and tearing up your Medicare card? If so, :tiphat: )

 

[True Grit Farms]

Meanwhile, here in NY, my taxes are quite high. Specifically, the schools tax is about killing all of the farms around us. The little upstate towns have run-down housing you can rent for next to nothing, so they are rented by what is locally called "welfarians" (or "woodchucks") who fill them up with kids. Because the houses are run-down, the landlords pay little property tax. Meanwhile, thanks to decades of globalization, local manufacturing is about gone. The state supports local schools less and less, so who keeps the local schools afloat? The farmers in the surrounding rural area, that's who: who pay through the nose in property taxes which go directly to the local school district. So if some farmer here needs a little help to put on a ROPS so that s/he can safely farm and try to put food on the table while paying property taxes as if he's a factory, you better believe I have zero, as in ZERO, as in Z.E.R.O. problem with that farmer getting some ROPS help. I don't want anyone else to lose their dad like my friend did at a young age.

My wife pays $14k in NY property taxes a year for her farm. And she might spend 4 weeks a year there. Neither of the tractors have ROPS on them and there 50+ years old and no one been killed on either one yet. And if we think the tractors need ROPS we sure as heck won't expect the taxpayers to foot the bill. A liberal will never get it, till it's to late.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Welfare is welfare never seen anyone not try to justify their welfare dollars.
It's just the other guys that is bad not mine mentality.

Unless you happen to live in actual/complete anarchy (and I'm not sure humans ever have), you can choose to look at any "benefit" a government provides (roads, military, tax breaks for corporations) as "welfare." So, I agree with your statement in bold above, and go further to say that based on a true definition of "welfare", there is not a single person or entity that doesn't benefit in some way from it.

Now, me personally, i don't really want to live in total anarchy, so I'm willing to have a nuanced, grown-up debate about what constitutes the permissible limits of government taxing and spending. But to claim that you, and I, and everyone else does not benefit from government (read taxpayer) dollars is naive.

(Are you refusing to cash those Social Security checks and tearing up your Medicare card? If so, :tiphat: )

Difference in SS I was forced to pay in several 100K I dang sure would have invested the money myself, than have been forced into a socialist program.
The big difference your missing is you had to pay into the SS system to play.
The welfare system only requires sticking your hand out.
You pay nothing for welfare you just get a free ride on somebody else's stick horse.
The government only has two ways to generate income tax or print it.
Both are bad for the American worker if you take subsidies/welfare some one else had to pay those taxes.

 

[boondocks]

Difference in SS I was forced to pay in several 100K I dang sure would have invested the money myself, than have been forced into a socialist program.
The big difference your missing is you had to pay into the SS system to play.
The welfare system only requires sticking your hand out.
You pay nothing for welfare you just get a free ride on somebody else's stick horse.
The government only has two ways to generate income tax or print it.
Both are bad for the American worker if you take subsidies/welfare some one else had to pay those taxes.

Hmmmm somewhere I heard a guy say once: "Welfare is welfare never seen anyone not try to justify their welfare dollars.
It's just the other guys that is bad not mine mentality." ;-)

 

[True Grit Farms]

Boondocks, are you saying that SS is welfare? I'm not good at reading between the lines.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Difference in SS I was forced to pay in several 100K I dang sure would have invested the money myself, than have been forced into a socialist program.
The big difference your missing is you had to pay into the SS system to play.
The welfare system only requires sticking your hand out.
You pay nothing for welfare you just get a free ride on somebody else's stick horse.
The government only has two ways to generate income tax or print it.
Both are bad for the American worker if you take subsidies/welfare some one else had to pay those taxes.

Hmmmm somewhere I heard a guy say once: "Welfare is welfare never seen anyone not try to justify their welfare dollars.
It's just the other guys that is bad not mine mentality." ;-)

Your the one that admitted to having your hand out for some one else's tax dollars.
If you think SS is welfare you need to go to the local ACE and get a head puller.
I would have to live to 92 to break even on what I paid in SS that is not happening.
Maybe you have found a way to milk that system as well.

 

[True Grit Farms]

It really puzzles me how different we are as Americans in our thinking and values. It sure is nice to be able to think and express those feelings. Life is good we are still free.

 

[M.Magis]

Your the one that admitted to having your hand out for some one else's tax dollars.
If you think SS is welfare you need to go to the local ACE and get a head puller.
I would have to live to 92 to break even on what I paid in SS that is not happening.
Maybe you have found a way to milk that system as well.

I agree with what you're saying, but how does that differ from taxes?
Welfare, to me, is someone taking from the system without having contributed. I suspect everyone here has paid more than their share of taxes.

 

[boondocks]

CB, I have paid in way (as in WAY) more than I will ever get out. I could retire today if I had in my pocket everything I've paid in. This is despite the fact that I was raised in poverty, have worked since I was 14, paid for college without a dime of help from my parents, and raised my family without a nickel from Uncle Sam. I fully expect SS and Medicare to be gone (or drastically reduced) before I ever get there.

You didn't get (or chose not to) my point (which was also your point, until you realized the natural conclusion of your argument) that one person's "I deserve this" is another person's "welfare."
You say you paid into SS and Medicare and so deserve those benefits. Fine. But how the heck is that different than my example of someone who pays ridiculously high state taxes (as we do in NY) to support, eg, the ROPS program, and then getting a little help with ROPS, from the program we farmers here paid for? :roll:

Sorry, you don't get to pick and choose your "welfare" programs based on whether or not they help you personally.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Everyone that paid into SS should get a check. Everyone that pays NY taxes does not have a tractor or needs or wants ROPS. Maybe some of the ROPS money could of been used to put a kid through school. And that kid just might come up with the vaccine to cure cancer. But no we'll just freeload as much as possible off the taxpayer.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Everyone that paid into SS should get a check. Everyone that pays NY taxes does not have a tractor or needs or wants ROPS. Maybe some of the ROPS money could of been used to put a kid through school. And that kid just might come up with the vaccine to cure cancer. But no we'll just freeload as much as possible off the taxpayer.

What boondocks doesn't get is they have given up control of local and state government to the takers. The politician to stay in control has to keep taking from the working to buy the votes
of those enslaved to the system. With states like his the only hope is to move.
The freeloaders and takers are not going to cut off the hand that feeds them and the politician is not
going to endanger his power and authority over the sheeple.
Try a state income tax in Texas that won't fly and never will.
That is why I love a sales tax everyone pays according to what they spend.

 

[boondocks]

Everyone that paid into SS should get a check. Everyone that pays NY taxes does not have a tractor or needs or wants ROPS. Maybe some of the ROPS money could of been used to put a kid through school. And that kid just might come up with the vaccine to cure cancer. But no we'll just freeload as much as possible off the taxpayer.

TG, guess you missed my earlier post about how in our area, we farmers are what is keeping the wheels on the bus (literally). I will not begrudge help to a fellow farmer who is working hard and trying to make a living and getting taxed to death while doing it. I don't see that as a abuse of the system. I have WAY better things to beyotch about--like the fact that most of our county budget goes to Medicaid. That is an actual problem, as opposed to ROPS.