Express Angus Ranch Yukon, OK

[Red Bull Breeder]

Bob Funk puts on the best show in the country. A Express sale is a 3 day event. You to look at the cattle and stay for the party. Take rides in the coach pulled by Clydedales meet all the performers form country music stars to the PBR bull riders that wear the Express logo on there vests. Drinks and fine food for all. Its a heck of a show.

 

[TexasBred]

Regardless of the other junk, if a sale needs to stroke the ego of the attendants and brag on TV then just change the channel. This is a perfect example of the foolish game so many actually think they need to compete with.

Just another registered multiplier, not true breeders.

:nod: :nod:

 

[TexasBred]

I see your point too. But AllForage, we have chosen capitalism as our form of economy. In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction determine the prices at which assets, goods, and services are exchanged. That is exactly what we saw in this sale. If Express Angus Ranch can set prices higher by stoking those egos, more power to him. He is just succeeding better than you and I are under the same game plan. Give the man his due. If the grand plan was being the best breeder, maybe you would be the winner. :tiphat:

No it's more like a shell game. There was no market. The seller knew who his buyer was on the highest priced stuff before the sell started. Nuff said.

 

[inyati13]

I see your point too. But AllForage, we have chosen capitalism as our form of economy. In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction determine the prices at which assets, goods, and services are exchanged. That is exactly what we saw in this sale. If Express Angus Ranch can set prices higher by stoking those egos, more power to him. He is just succeeding better than you and I are under the same game plan. Give the man his due. If the grand plan was being the best breeder, maybe you would be the winner. :tiphat:

No it's more like a shell game. There was no market. The seller knew who his buyer was on the highest priced stuff before the sell started. Nuff said.

TexasBred. I realize you did not literally mean a shell game. A shell game is not even close to what you are talking about. What you are describing is an auction where the price is established privately , thus , the auction is a farce. That is illegal. I have heard these deals occur and I have no doubt they do. But it would certainly be a civil or criminal violation of laws regulating commerce. But enough of that. It is still a market albeit an illegal one. Here is a question I have for you or anyone. What would keep me from going to the auction and bidding against the "preset or agreed to price." Charlie Boyd was at the auction. I know him and I pass his farm on US 62 on the way to my farm every day. What if Charlie is not briefed on the "preset plan?" What if he wants one of these animals where the sale has been pre-arranged? What keeps him from throwing a wrench into the plan? I guess the logical answer is who would care, the seller would just get more money! Thus, the preset price sets a floor. Be hard to catch that kind of illegal commerce!!!!

I will give you an experience where I think people sometimes jump to conclusions that are not founded in fact. I was at the Paris, KY Elite Heifer Sale last fall. The first 6 lots of heifers went through and they were going for about $2200 a piece. The guy next to me was telling me that they always fix the price on the first lots through the ring to get prices up. He assured me the price would come down. Not only did the price not come down but it went up from there. He still may have been right. I think we all know stuff happens so I am not naive. It is easy to think because some of the cows (and some of those cows that sold were the Number One cows in the Angus breed based on EPDs, and I mean that literally) sold for $200,000 and up that it is fixed. But those cows are going to be flushed for years and their embryos are going to sell. Just do the math on the number of embryos a cow can produce over a life span.

 

[AllForage]

No need to lecture me on capitalism, I am it's biggest fan.

If you think gross sales equates to success or something worth preserving and perpetuating then there is a lot more work to do. The best in any given field do not receive fame as sticking to principal is not popular. Nor is sticking to a plan and ignoring fads.

Genetic registered multipliers, a few post here as well.

 

[inyati13]

No need to lecture me on capitalism, I am it's biggest fan.

If you think gross sales equates to success or something worth preserving and perpetuating then there is a lot more work to do. The best in any given field do not receive fame as sticking to principal is not popular. Nor is sticking to a plan and ignoring fads.

Genetic registered multipliers, a few post here as well.

I like your response, my friend. :nod:

 

[TexasBred]

TexasBred. I realize you did not literally mean a shell game. A shell game is not even close to what you are talking about. What you are describing is an auction where the price is established privately , thus , the auction is a farce. That is illegal. I have heard these deals occur and I have no doubt they do. But it would certainly be a civil or criminal violation of laws regulating commerce. But enough of that. It is still a market albeit an illegal one. Here is a question I have for you or anyone. What would keep me from going to the auction and bidding against the "preset or agreed to price." Charlie Boyd was at the auction. I know him and I pass his farm on US 62 on the way to my farm every day. What if Charlie is not briefed on the "preset plan?" What if he wants one of these animals where the sale has been pre-arranged? What keeps him from throwing a wrench into the plan? I guess the logical answer is who would care, the seller would just get more money! Thus, the preset price sets a floor. Be hard to catch that kind of illegal commerce!!!!

I will give you an experience where I think people sometimes jump to conclusions that are not founded in fact. I was at the Paris, KY Elite Heifer Sale last fall. The first 6 lots of heifers went through and they were going for about $2200 a piece. The guy next to me was telling me that they always fix the price on the first lots through the ring to get prices up. He assured me the price would come down. Not only did the price not come down but it went up from there. He still may have been right. I think we all know stuff happens so I am not naive. It is easy to think because some of the cows (and some of those cows that sold were the Number One cows in the Angus breed based on EPDs, and I mean that literally) sold for $200,000 and up that it is fixed. But those cows are going to be flushed for years and their embryos are going to sell. Just do the math on the number of embryos a cow can produce over a life span.

Then you wouldn't go so far as to say it's a "Fair Market".

 

[inyati13]

Today, I spoke to Keith Phillips, Rocking P Livestock. Keith and his brother Chan assumed the reins of Rocking P from their dad Larry who established a reputation for honesty and citizenship in Mason county where I reside. My mother was born in this county and her Mitchell roots go back to Daniel Boone. Jeanne of Simmi Valley knows them and they were partners with Hudson Pine Farms. I actually bought two of the last three heifers out of that partnership. Keith told me today something I did not know that bears on where I am going with this. Before Larry turned Rocking P over to the boys, Keith worked out west. I know he was in Montana near Bozeman but he told me he worked at Express Angus Ranch in Oklahoma before coming back to Mason County. I think dun mentioned something on here about some people have a quality that is rare, a quality that earns them the respect of everyone such that no matter who you talk to, no one says a bad word about them. That is how the Phillips family is.

I ask Keith about cattle auctions. The kind of cattle auctions where people spend thousands of dollars for individual animals that have the genes they want in their herd. Like the Express Auction that was on RFD. I ask him point blank. Are those auctions fair market auctions? I specifically gave reference to the Express Angus Ranch Auction. Here is about what he said:

I worked at Express Ranch. They do not fix their sales. You bid and get what you want, at the price you are willing to pay. Every auction we have at Rocking P is straight above the board and people always go away saying it was fixed. We just ignore them. Whereever high price cattle are sold, people are going to tell you the prices are fixed. A guy from Flemingburg was at the Express Auction this week and I know for a fact, he had to pay for the cattle he bought back to Kentucky. He said there may be illegal auctions but I know it was not at Express Ranch. If you get caught, you are going to prison. Why would you do that when you know your cattle will sell anyway?

That is all I have to say. You do what ever you want with this information.

 

[3waycross]

Today, I spoke to Keith Phillips, Rocking P Livestock. Keith and his brother Chan assumed the reins of Rocking P from their dad Larry who established a reputation for honesty and citizenship in Mason county where I reside. My mother was born in this county and her Mitchell roots go back to Daniel Boone. Jeanne of Simmi Valley knows them and they were partners with Hudson Pine Farms. I actually bought two of the last three heifers out of that partnership. Keith told me today something I did not know that bears on where I am going with this. Before Larry turned Rocking P over to the boys, Keith worked out west. I know he was in Montana near Bozeman but he told me he worked at Express Angus Ranch in Oklahoma before coming back to Mason County. I think dun mentioned something on here about some people have a quality that is rare, a quality that earns them the respect of everyone such that no matter who you talk to, no one says a bad word about them. That is how the Phillips family is.

I ask Keith about cattle auctions. The kind of cattle auctions where people spend thousands of dollars for individual animals that have the genes they want in their herd. Like the Express Auction that was on RFD. I ask him point blank. Are those auctions fair market auctions? I specifically gave reference to the Express Angus Ranch Auction. Here is about what he said:

I worked at Express Ranch. They do not fix their sales. You bid and get what you want, at the price you are willing to pay. Every auction we have at Rocking P is straight above the board and people always go away saying it was fixed. We just ignore them. Whereever high price cattle are sold, people are going to tell you the prices are fixed. A guy from Flemingburg was at the Express Auction this week and I know for a fact, he had to pay for the cattle he bought back to Kentucky. He said there may be illegal auctions but I know it was not at Express Ranch. If you get caught, you are going to prison. Why would you do that when you know your cattle will sell anyway?

That is all I have to say. You do what ever you want with this information.

It happens because folks watch an animal sell for more than can ever be recouped on him or her.

the old saying about if it walks like a duck and quacks.........etc didn't come from nowhere.

of course there's also that old saying about there's no accounting for fools!

 

[inyati13]

Vic, you are right, it is not like there is a guarantee that goes with cattle like there is with silver bars that tell you what they are worth. If someone is foolish enough to spend more than an animal is worth, the seller is not going to issue a warning. I think there are people who go to these sales with more money than they know what to do with. I wish I were in their shoes.

 

[TexasBred]

T
I worked at Express Ranch. They do not fix their sales. You bid and get what you want, at the price you are willing to pay. Every auction we have at Rocking P is straight above the board and people always go away saying it was fixed. We just ignore them. Whereever high price cattle are sold, people are going to tell you the prices are fixed. A guy from Flemingburg was at the Express Auction this week and I know for a fact, he had to pay for the cattle he bought back to Kentucky. He said there may be illegal auctions but I know it was not at Express Ranch. If you get caught, you are going to prison. Why would you do that when you know your cattle will sell anyway?

That is all I have to say. You do what ever you want with this information.

Did you really expect him to say anything differently?? ;-)

 

[inyati13]

TexasBred, the reality is I am taking the end of the stick where I have to prove the negative. I did my best. You at least have something to test your evidence against. :wave:

 

[mwj]

Go to a sale (equipment ,household,livestock ect.) and watch the bidders in the crowd :shock: . Just because you base your purchase price on sound business practices does not mean all people do. A lot of these high prices involve more ego than breeding. People spend outrageous amounts of money on things they WANT not things they need :cowboy:

 

[inyati13]

Go to a sale (equipment ,household,livestock ect.) and watch the bidders in the crowd :shock: . Just because you base your purchase price on sound business practices does not mean all people do. A lot of these high prices involve more ego than breeding. People spend outrageous amounts of money on things they WANT not things they need :cowboy:

I sent a PM to TexasBred a few hours ago with that same theme. Those high prices are more to do with ego and attempts to impress than fixed prices IMO. As Vic said, there is no accounting among fools. I was at the Paris, KY Elite heifer sale in November. There was a nice looking man in his 70s with a very pretty lady about 35 hanging all over him sitting above me. If he started a bid, he finished it. A Lot of Simmental/Angus (they had the white on their faces that I like) heifers came in and I bid a couple of times against him and gave up. I looked up where he was sitting, he and his lady were laughing at me. I just smiled back. From what I could see, he was paying about $400 more per head than he could have gotten them at the best breeders in the county.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Inyati I am a limousin breeder. I believe your man was less than truthful. I have seen the Bob Funk show in action. How ever believe what you like, it makes no difference to me.

 

[AllForage]

Bob Funk puts on the best show in the country. A Express sale is a 3 day event. You to look at the cattle and stay for the party. Take rides in the coach pulled by Clydedales meet all the performers form country music stars to the PBR bull riders that wear the Express logo on there vests. Drinks and fine food for all. Its a heck of a show.

Sounds like someone needs to partner up with him and pitch this to the networks as the next greatest "reality" series. Maybe "Cattle Sale Kings" or "Hardcore Cattle"

 

[H and H]

Express Ranches may have "bought their way into a breeding program", I will excuse myself from that debate. Their genetics manager is making pretty good decisions and deserves a bit of credit for knowing where to spend the money. The animals were long, deep bodied, and yes well conditioned. I would have been proud to own them, but that game is way too rich for my blood. What was the sale average?

I saw a few of the Ten X daughters sell, has anyone used him and if so, how do his daughters look?

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I'm not going to say they don't multiply, cause they do. They have a massive operation in multiple states and use multiple other operations to feed it as well.

But, they have a bunch to pick through and they find genetics that click and breed it from multiple angles.

I haven't seen much line breeding. It is what it is.

What I can say, is that they dumped a ton of nhc and amc bulls when those tests came on the seen at a huge loss. At that time, they stopped offering carriers for sale. But, I think an nhc wreck is a different story.

They stand firmly behind their cattle. The value I see is not stamping a bunch of identical pretty maids all in a row to full the pasture. Seems most of these cattle are numbers cattle with the goal of getting potloads of calves destined for the lot and an angus premium.

I've never worried much about the high end stuff as I need not apply. But I do enjoy the food and they have nice facilities.

To be balanced, inyati, if you buy your own bull back I don't think that is illegal. Seen people buy their own stuff back at an auction before, if it wasn't going for enough.

PT Barnum wasn't the first nor the last. If RBR is privy to knowledge, I won't call him a liar. But they treated us well when we dealt with them in the past, and I've heard of a couple other people being happy with their customer care.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Didn't say they wouldn't treat you right CF or that the cattle wasn't good. Bob Funk pays for a first class operation and has a first class operation. When the big boys promote it done with money.

 

[bse]

H and H i have a few Ten X calves from the spring i think they are gonna make good cows i registered them at a week old which i normally wouldnt do but i liked them from the day they hit the ground. i hope ill have a few more coming next month. He is on my short list for a heifer bull this fall. I was glad to see that sire group do well.