Easy Keeping Breeds
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MikeC":327hj7of said:
If one accepts the premis that the "typical" Hereford is eaiser keeping then the 'typical" SImmenthal, etc. that has to mean that the Hereford breed as a whole is easier keeping then the Simmenthal breed as a whole. I'm too lazy to type all of the other variations you listed. (I'll call it the KNERSIE syndrome for lack of a better term)
Leads back to the original question, about what breeds are better at something then an other breed.
We have never regretted chosing Murray Greys for our grass-fed beef program. However, Mike C
is certainly correct that there are wide variations in any breed and/or bloodline. We narrowed
down our choices to cow families with good hindquarter, and big rib-cage cows that can
maintain condition on forage alone if the forage is there. Here's SuzieQ, who some on this
board have called overly fat. She was on forage alone and feeding a calf at the time.
We have/are gradually weeding out the cows that do not maintain condition as well
and have kept back daughters of the bloodlines we feel should be expanded.
About 7-8 years ago we did get rid of some Murrays that were "hard-doers"; so
Mike C is certainly right about variations within a breed.
is certainly correct that there are wide variations in any breed and/or bloodline. We narrowed
down our choices to cow families with good hindquarter, and big rib-cage cows that can
maintain condition on forage alone if the forage is there. Here's SuzieQ, who some on this
board have called overly fat. She was on forage alone and feeding a calf at the time.
We have/are gradually weeding out the cows that do not maintain condition as well
and have kept back daughters of the bloodlines we feel should be expanded.
About 7-8 years ago we did get rid of some Murrays that were "hard-doers"; so
Mike C is certainly right about variations within a breed.
Pine Creek Ranch
Active member
Ditto on what OK Jeanne said, our Murray Greys also do exceptionally well foraging, and I often have people tell me they look a little on the "fat" side, and in reality I can't hardly keep them thinner than that. They can lay under a shade tree and look at the grass and get fat. I do wonder though, and I could be wrong about this, but our Murray Grey cattle are so much calmer than most of the other cattle in this area and even calmer than our own cows that aren't Murrays, maybe that helps them keep a little extra weight on. The cows out there that have their heads up high ready to run up the side of a mountain at the drop of a hat can't possibly keep weight on as good as the calm ones, can they?
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Pine Creek Ranch-Pine Creek Ranch":69sexv4n said:
You are correct in principle - everything else being equal, meaning that genetically calm animals will react as you have indicated. Human beings are a good example of this fact. There are people who are thin (skinny), nervously inclined, jittery, jumpy, and Hyper-active. They are capable of eating anything that they care to, as often as they wish, and not gain a pound. On the other hand, there are people who are constantly complaining about gaining weight, calm demeanor, outwardly quiet behavior, cheerful and happy as a cow in clover! They can look at a cookie and gain three pounds! They are constantly dieting, practically starving themselves, and then when they can't stand the stress, - PIG OUT - and start the cycle all over again. Genetically-influenced trends and characteristics have a great bearing on these tendencies, not only in human beings, but animals as well. This is one reason that "Environmental Factors" have a large influence on Docility of Beef Cattle, and any other animal for that matter. We all know that handling cattle through the 'chutes' goes more easily if the surroundings are quiet, and the handlers are not screaming and yelling to move the cattle.
DOC HARRIS
chippie
Well-known member
Something that should be taken into consideration is climate. We live on the Texas Gulf Coast. It is hot, humid and we never really have a winter (no real hard freezes). Because of this parasites are a year 'round problem.
Cattle with Brahman influence do well here. Some of the breeds mentioned have a difficult time handling the summer heat and humidity here.
We have a friend who runs Longhorn cross cows in South Texas. Bred to a good beef bull, they produce beefy calves that sell well. They are good mothers, very protective and are good foragers. They are also wild wild wild and he hires helicopters to gather them. Considering the environment, this cross meets his needs as a commercial cow.
Cattle with Brahman influence do well here. Some of the breeds mentioned have a difficult time handling the summer heat and humidity here.
We have a friend who runs Longhorn cross cows in South Texas. Bred to a good beef bull, they produce beefy calves that sell well. They are good mothers, very protective and are good foragers. They are also wild wild wild and he hires helicopters to gather them. Considering the environment, this cross meets his needs as a commercial cow.
andybob
Well-known member
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj10 ... NY0007.jpg
Chippie, a weaner heifer Tuli/Brangus, ideal easy keeper for you environment, a good terminal bull will prduce a calf suited to todays market. She is one of seven I sold to a commercial cattleman in Georgia.
Chippie, a weaner heifer Tuli/Brangus, ideal easy keeper for you environment, a good terminal bull will prduce a calf suited to todays market. She is one of seven I sold to a commercial cattleman in Georgia.
greenwillowhereford II
Well-known member
It can be argued that there are at LEAST breeds that it will be easier to find a greater percentage of their population that are easy keeping. I would certainly argue it for mine.
brandonm_13
Well-known member
I have noticed that cows, like people tend to be in the best mood, when they are most comfortable. Have you noticed that after a hot dry summer, that day that the cool fall breeze moves in, everyone is happy just to stand around and talk outside, or how that spring day finally hits after its been cold and the wind is blowing, the sunshine feels so good that you just want to lay down on the ground. It seems that comfortable cows make calm cows. More heat tolerance in warmer, more humid regions work best, and thicker winter coats work well in colder regions.
Also I've noticed that when a polled bull starts throwing his head around, people tend look at that as being playful, but when a horned bull throws his head around, it becomes dangerous. In reality, it is more dangerous for a horned bull/cow to be doing that, but does that mean that they are any more/less dangerous than a polled individual?
Also I've noticed that when a polled bull starts throwing his head around, people tend look at that as being playful, but when a horned bull throws his head around, it becomes dangerous. In reality, it is more dangerous for a horned bull/cow to be doing that, but does that mean that they are any more/less dangerous than a polled individual?
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Bnm_13brandonm_13":1yju68g4 said:
As a general rule to memorize, and keep in the forefront of your mind - ANYTIME ANY bull starts "throwing his head around" it is past time to leave the area! It is foolish to attempt to "play BRAVE" when you are working around cattle - Horned OR polled! One thing that you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt by acting casual, non-chalant - and - COOL 8) around Bulls or Cows when they indicate iritation is - you can be injured very quickly!
You are smarter than cattle. Act like it at all times!
DOC HARRIS
I agree with doc harris
If you are less carefull around polled and dehorned cattle, than around horned cattle, than you have lost the small advantage of dehorning.
About easy keepers I would like to say that cows that are to big is the worst of all.
Go for a size medium; a small cow with good muscle and milk. Weight: 1000- 1100 pounds will do. If you believe in terminal sres, use one with great muscle rather than great size. If you feed the calves out yourself, it takes perhaps one month more to finish it, but you earn the same. If you sell calves at weaning, they will be as big as calves from a big bull, but calving will have been easyer!
If you are less carefull around polled and dehorned cattle, than around horned cattle, than you have lost the small advantage of dehorning.
About easy keepers I would like to say that cows that are to big is the worst of all.
Go for a size medium; a small cow with good muscle and milk. Weight: 1000- 1100 pounds will do. If you believe in terminal sres, use one with great muscle rather than great size. If you feed the calves out yourself, it takes perhaps one month more to finish it, but you earn the same. If you sell calves at weaning, they will be as big as calves from a big bull, but calving will have been easyer!
brandonm_13
Well-known member
I'm not talking about a bull "acting up" when you go to feed. I'm just talking about the everyday movements. Even when a horned cow is swatting flies or scratching its side, it can be dangerous to other cows in the vacinity(not to mention humans that might be around), but if the same animal is polled, most just see it as swatting flies. In reality, any head movement of a horned animal, whether aggression or just side scratching, is more dangerous to others than that of a polled animal, but at the same time, that does not mean it is necessarily a more aggresive animal just because it has horns. We just see the danger more easily in horned individuals.
You are so true, I raised horned cattle as dayry cows all my life and people that should know cattle behaviour were afraid of these docile cows that we milked twice a day and had halterbroke and so on.
but now we have left the subject, I guess.
but now we have left the subject, I guess.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Whether an easy keeper or not I personally see no reason to ever have a "horned cow" in the herd unless you're raising Texas Longhors.
~
I am very fortunate to have individuals of a few breeds that are easy keepers;
Traditional Simmentals ( and I got the incredable longevity as a bonus.)
Red Angus
Herefords
&
Black SimAngus ( best cross I have ever witnessed here in the Northeast )
This is why I am proud to have a "rainbow" herd.
There is a good economic reason for it.
And they look fabulous in these mountain fields.
Once you put the pencil to paper, you discover which cows are contributing and which ones aren't. You have to make adjustments to stay happy at the bank.
The farmer down the mountain raises Longhorns and he is doing a cracker jack business selling beef out of his freezers. He has some great looking animals and he has told me many many times how the LH breed has done right by him in comparison to the Angus he once raised. He wants to trade me a few LH heifers for a few Sim/Herf steers. He needs more steer beef and he always has many many more heifers born than bulls.
3 other local Beef producers raise Scottish Highlands and all of them are doing really well selling their beef to the local co-op.
However, each one of them has had a bizarre cow death in the past month... because of their horns.
One pregnant cow stuck her head thru a new gate and hung herself. Another did the same thing in a hayrack.
A friend of mine has several Scottish Highlands and she dehorned every single one of them. She calls them easy keepers now.
2 other producers that have Angus have wised up and done their homework and are looking for a Simmental bull and SimAngus cows to improve the economics of their own situations.
If I had my druthers, I would have a few good Beefmasters as well.
I truely admire the breed and what a great product they turn out time and time again. I am sure the majority must be easy keepers. What say you Beefy ?
I am very fortunate to have individuals of a few breeds that are easy keepers;
Traditional Simmentals ( and I got the incredable longevity as a bonus.)
Red Angus
Herefords
&
Black SimAngus ( best cross I have ever witnessed here in the Northeast )
This is why I am proud to have a "rainbow" herd.
There is a good economic reason for it.
And they look fabulous in these mountain fields.
Once you put the pencil to paper, you discover which cows are contributing and which ones aren't. You have to make adjustments to stay happy at the bank.
The farmer down the mountain raises Longhorns and he is doing a cracker jack business selling beef out of his freezers. He has some great looking animals and he has told me many many times how the LH breed has done right by him in comparison to the Angus he once raised. He wants to trade me a few LH heifers for a few Sim/Herf steers. He needs more steer beef and he always has many many more heifers born than bulls.
3 other local Beef producers raise Scottish Highlands and all of them are doing really well selling their beef to the local co-op.
However, each one of them has had a bizarre cow death in the past month... because of their horns.
One pregnant cow stuck her head thru a new gate and hung herself. Another did the same thing in a hayrack.
A friend of mine has several Scottish Highlands and she dehorned every single one of them. She calls them easy keepers now.
2 other producers that have Angus have wised up and done their homework and are looking for a Simmental bull and SimAngus cows to improve the economics of their own situations.
If I had my druthers, I would have a few good Beefmasters as well.
I truely admire the breed and what a great product they turn out time and time again. I am sure the majority must be easy keepers. What say you Beefy ?
They look funny without the horns tho. I saw a hay rack the other day that would work great for horned cattle. I think it was homemade but it worked well. The man had a mixed herd and several were horned. I guess it was easier to make his own hay rack than to dehorn his cattle for him.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
It sounds to me as if he is a "hard learner!"spoon":346zt7x2 said:
DOC HARRIS
novatech
Well-known member
How many points drop in BCS is considered to be an easy keeper from calveing to weaning while producing a good quantity of milk? Mine will drop from a 7 to a 5, keeping the calf on for 7 months. A lot depends on time of year and forage availability. In a really good grass year they may only drop 1 point.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Angus/Brangus":385k3grm said:
Angus..we raise brangus. All are very gentle, however, was feeding cubes about a year ago and a 2 day old calf walked right up beside of me out of curiosity. Next thing I heard was a blowing snorting sound and looked up and Mama looked like a rodeo bull coming at me with her back feet 8 feet in the air and her front feed about 2 feet in the air and slinging snot everywhere. Didn't do a thing to me other than almost make me soil my laundry. Only cow that ever did it. All I can say is that they are "very protective mothers".
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