Heritage Breeds and Terminal Sires

[Anon A Mouse]

Hi everyone! Let me state clearly here and now: I neither own land (someday though~) nor any cows. I've done a lot of research over the years so I know what breed of heifer I want (American Milking Devon) and was curious about what I should cross them with to produce a better butcher calf. The AMD is an American Heritage breed - they are the descendants of the first cattle brought to the US - and are considered a dual purpose breed for milk and meat and can even be trained as oxen if one cares to put in the effort to do so. On average the cows give about 4 gallons of milk per milking (I only plan on one milking per day and leaving the calf on her) with about 4% butterfat, so they match the better known Jersey as far as quantity and quality of milk. Carcass yield at butchering time is around 60% so that's fairly close to the feedlot percentages. If I wanted to increase that yield for a grass-fed, organic type operation what are your opinions on the best crosses for this breed? I do not plan on keeping crossed heifer calves as herd replacements - I will have a AMD bull cover the best of my cows each year - so choosing a maternal bull is not a consideration. I'm strictly looking for a terminal bull.

 

[Son of Butch]

Black Angus is never the wrong answer.
Depending on your beef marketing plan you could also go many different directions based on what
your markets WANT.
Angus are number 1 because they are proven to be efficient all around good cattle.
In my opinion, with 3 way crosses, if Angus isn't 1 of the crosses you're missing the boat.

While you may not want them, there might be a good market for your F1 Devon x Angus heifers.
Where are you located Anon?

p.s.
:welcome: to the boards.

 

[Nesikep]

Strictly terminal, I'd probably look at Charolais (watch birthweight) or Gelbvieh, it'll put meat on the frame nicely.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You can never go wrong with one of the three essential breeds Angus,Brahman and Hereford or their composites depending on your environment.

 

[Anon A Mouse]

While you may not want them, there might be a good market for your F1 Devon x Angus heifers.
Where are you located Anon?

Well, as I said I currently don't own land or cattle. I'm in far northern California - I'm about 30 minutes from the Oregon border. I want to buy land in Montana someday, though. Somewhere with a view of a nearby mountain range would be nice, but those tend to be pretty pricey and out of the range of a middle aged minimum wage grunt worker, LOL. Well, at least they're pretty to look at and make a few wishes on.

As one of the other responders stated I need to watch birthweight - Devons are somewhat smaller than the Angus and I would be concerned about calving since I want to stay as much "hands off" as possible. Devon's are known for their innate hardiness and their mothering ability/ease of calving. One rule of thumb I was told early on in my research is that when dealing with smaller breeds of cattle it is important that your bull be smaller than your cows to ease calving and prevent high birthweight problems.

Another issue I have is I will be a total novice when it comes to cows when I do eventually get them. Ive spoken to a number of cattlemen in my local area and they say due to temperament, an angus bull is not for the newbie to try handling. If I can find someone with an angus bull known for low birthweight I might see about arranging a rental (hands off, so no IVF) of sorts so I don't have to do the handling of it. Which would give me those F1 Devon/Angus heifers. That thought has potential. If the law of averages (and hybrid vigor!) is right the result should be a largish heifer either red or black in color, potenially horned, that gives a larger quantity of milk than a pure angus heifer. Which should, in turn, result in larger, better fed calves at weaning.

 

[Son of Butch]

While you may not want them, there might be a good market for your F1 Devon x Angus heifers.
Where are you located Anon?

I'm in far northern California - I'm about 30 minutes from the Oregon border.

As one of the other responders stated I need to watch birth weight -
Devons are somewhat smaller than the Angus and I would be concerned about calving
since I want to stay as much "hands off" as possible.

I've spoken to a number of cattlemen in my local area and they say due to temperament,
an angus bull is not for the newbie to try handling.

If I can find someone with an angus bull known for low birth weight I might see about arranging
a rental.... Which would give me those F1 Devon/Angus heifers. That thought has potential.

Black Angus is the calving ease breed.... the gold standard other breeds are compared to.
No bull is newbie safe.
I can guarantee you will have no problem finding a docile calving ease Angus bull when
the time comes.

 

[Redgully]

Murray grey would be another good option. I breed red polls which is also a heritage breed, these old breeds have a lot to offer and haven't been messed about with too much. But you have to be careful as they can always have undesirable traits other breeds have eliminated.

 

[msplmtneer]

Howdy and :welcome: good luck in following your dream :tiphat:

 

[76 Bar]

I'm in far northern California - I'm about 30 minutes from the Oregon border.

Excuse me for being nosey...far north coastal, central or eastern.

 

[Son of Butch]

What are the differences between the three?
In case you read over it, Anon ideally hoped to buy land in western Montana.

 

[Anon A Mouse]

I'm in far northern California - I'm about 30 minutes from the Oregon border.

Excuse me for being nosey...far north coastal, central or eastern.

I would say central. Siskiyou County, right on the I5 corridor.

 

[Anon A Mouse]

What are the differences between the three?
In case you read over it, Anon ideally hoped to buy land in western Montana.

Coastal is a significantly damper climate than central or eastern. It is also mostly mountainous alpine forest due to the presence of the Cascade Range. Eastern is high (or alpine) desert and very dry and hot in the summers and cold and dryish in the winters, much like western Nevada. Central is a more temperate version of the high desert of eastern, there is lots of spring run off from the big mountains of the Cascades. Central's terrain is valleys shifting to rolling hills-almost mountains as one travels east. Eastern does get more summer thunderstorms than central although I believe they are much smaller in scale and amount of precip than the ones of the great plains. Temps occasionally break 100 throughout central and eastern, and almost never in the coastal region.

As far as western Montana, no objections. I like the area around Flathead lake/Kalispell and found a few nice parcels in the area ... but the property I found that I'm just drooling over (regardless of whether or not I can afford it. It's a beautiful piece) is bordering the southern edge of the Big Snowies, which is technically central Montana, LOL. It's got a lovely view of Snow Saucer. There's a smaller, much more remote piece I like at the end of Ninemile valley northwest of Missoula. There's a few small parcels being sold off from a bigger ranch in Treasure county that would be much more reasonable for me to attempt getting, 160 acre lots running about 200k$. But right now, it's just looking and getting a feel for the property market rather than any intent to buy immediately. So I look, admire the pretty pictures and move on. And maybe do some wishful thinking, I'm silly like that.

 

[farmerjan]

My suggestion is also an angus for terminal. But if you are planning a bull to cover your best cows, why not just do AI? How many cows do you plan to have? A Milking devon will make a good carcass. There are some in New England where I am from and they are often used for oxen at the different fairs that have pulling contests. I don't think that you need to be so terribly concerned that the bull be smaller? You simply need an easy calving bull for the heifers. Devons are not a fragile breed. Why not just breed all of them devon? I have several jerseys that I use for nurse cows and have raised jersey steer calves for my freezer for over 40 years. They will kill out at 55+%, had one that the butcher said was 71%. The meat is usually very tender and a little "sweeter" tasting. Everyone has loved the hamburger that I have shared. I have used our plus weight angus bulls on them after they have had their first calf. The cow will control the size of the calf to a good degree. I am not saying not to be a bit cautious, but I think you are being overly concerned about the calf these cows can have. We also have had some red polls like redgully, and they have done fine with any angus we have bred them to. If black wasn't the "only color" they want to see at the local sale barns, we would be using more red polls and red angus bulls.
I would trust any of our angus bulls far further than the couple of limousins, or the braunvieh, that we have had over the years. Our Red poll bulls have had the best and quietest dispositions.

 

[MNBelties]

Black angus is excellent choice. My only issue with the milking devons is they have poor growth rate in the purebred calves so you will need a good bull with decent growth numbers.

 

[Anon A Mouse]

My suggestion is also an angus for terminal. But if you are planning a bull to cover your best cows, why not just do AI? How many cows do you plan to have? A Milking devon will make a good carcass. There are some in New England where I am from and they are often used for oxen at the different fairs that have pulling contests. I don't think that you need to be so terribly concerned that the bull be smaller? You simply need an easy calving bull for the heifers. Devons are not a fragile breed. Why not just breed all of them devon? I have several jerseys that I use for nurse cows and have raised jersey steer calves for my freezer for over 40 years. They will kill out at 55+%, had one that the butcher said was 71%. The meat is usually very tender and a little "sweeter" tasting. Everyone has loved the hamburger that I have shared. I have used our plus weight angus bulls on them after they have had their first calf. The cow will control the size of the calf to a good degree. I am not saying not to be a bit cautious, but I think you are being overly concerned about the calf these cows can have. We also have had some red polls like redgully, and they have done fine with any angus we have bred them to. If black wasn't the "only color" they want to see at the local sale barns, we would be using more red polls and red angus bulls.
I would trust any of our angus bulls far further than the couple of limousins, or the braunvieh, that we have had over the years. Our Red poll bulls have had the best and quietest dispositions.

As pointed out in another comment, Devons are slow growers. I wanted a terminal sire that would increase growth rate and improve feed conversion for a small crop of decent beef steers. I plan to start out small - no more than 5 heifers - as I want to utilize the Devon for milk as well as meat. I was thinking every, i don't know for sure yet, third year breed my heifers to a Devon bull and add any unblemished heifer calves to my herd. I guess I'm partly trying to play it safe for my own sake, I don't want to just jump in with 40 head and wind up just tossing the whole endeavor over my own mistakes in trying to handle a larger herd. Of course by the time I have a significantly sized herd, I'll probably be eighty and about ready to throw in the towel.

 

[Anon A Mouse]

Black angus is excellent choice. My only issue with the milking devons is they have poor growth rate in the purebred calves so you will need a good bull with decent growth numbers.

I'm guessing by your screen name your have the Dutch Belted or the Galloway Belted? My Mom calls them the "oreo cookie" cows, regardless of which breed it is.

 

[76 Bar]

Coastal is a significantly damper climate than central or eastern. It is also mostly mountainous alpine forest due to the presence of the Cascade Range. Eastern is high (or alpine) desert and very dry and hot in the summers and cold and dryish in the winters, much like western Nevada. Central is a more temperate version of the high desert of eastern, there is lots of spring run off from the big mountains of the Cascades. Central's terrain is valleys shifting to rolling hills-almost mountains as one travels east. Eastern does get more summer thunderstorms than central although I believe they are much smaller in scale and amount of precip than the ones of the great plains. Temps occasionally break 100 throughout central and eastern, and almost never in the coastal region.

Nice summation Anon A Mouse. 8) Spent decades ranching in far northern coastal Humboldt Co (south of Del Norte county) hence my nosey location query. Good wishes in pursuing your cattle dream and finding suitable property regardless of location.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

:welcome:

 

[MNBelties]

Black angus is excellent choice. My only issue with the milking devons is they have poor growth rate in the purebred calves so you will need a good bull with decent growth numbers.

I'm guessing by your screen name your have the Dutch Belted or the Galloway Belted? My Mom calls them the "oreo cookie" cows, regardless of which breed it is.

Belted Galloways

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Black angus is excellent choice. My only issue with the milking devons is they have poor growth rate in the purebred calves so you will need a good bull with decent growth numbers.

I'm guessing by your screen name your have the Dutch Belted or the Galloway Belted? My Mom calls them the "oreo cookie" cows, regardless of which breed it is.

Belted Galloways

I love seeing them. Hopefully you'll post some pictures. :welcome: