Ear

[Caustic Burno]

We are going back near half a century when I was a journeyman butcher.
Lady that owned the store had about a thousand head of cattle she contracted a local kill plant.
Her hand's hauled the calves she raised to there and they hauled to the store.
We averaged cutting 40 head a week she supplied her own beef for about half the year.
Now I have no clue what the margins were as my job was to cut meat. I overheard her talking with the market manger how profit's were through the roof. Next week I hit her up for a raise she said no I walked out the door and went down the street to another shop started the next day. That is the only day in my life I was without a job.

 

[houstoncutter]

CommercialFarmer, I would love to see producers of Brahman crossed cattle use the special Brahman sales. Feeders are gonna moan about eared calves, but licking their chops to get em cheap. Otherwise they just wouldnt take em, like they do on Longhorn cattle. The facts are there on the Brahman crossed cattle they just choose to ignore them and they get away with it.

The calves I produced out of F1's crossed with Limousin fullbloods looked like purebred Limi's......You really want to think that I was the only one doing that down south. While I might admit that some lines of pure Brahman calves would be tougher, will you admit to the fact that a group of purebred Brahman calves won the Ranch to Rail contest back in the 90's, or perhaps you werent awarwe of that fact....

 

[Commercialfarmer]

While I might admit that some lines of pure Brahman calves would be tougher, will you admit to the fact that a group of purebred Brahman calves won the Ranch to Rail contest back in the 90's, or perhaps you werent awarwe of that fact....

If we're going to start listing all the facts that I don't know, this is going to be a long thread and we're going to be here a while.
I'll chip in on my turn with I don't understand how a woman can make a promise to love you till death do you part, and then spend a lot of energy trying to uphold the death and part aspect of it and completely forget about the love. ;-)

I'm not against Indicus cattle, don't intend to come off that way. Was just trying to answer Ryder's question, relaying what I heard while being a fly on the wall in a few meetings where most of the fellows sitting at the tables could buy and sell me 20 x over. Is it misinformation/perception or average information (I suspect this). When you deal with high volume, changes in a few percentages can make a big difference.

I think there is likely some benefit in the south in the yard, and even maybe in the north during the summer. I do think that picking the right lines would be important to having an overall benefit. Is F1 the best percentage- I don't know about that, but I may be wrong. I think we are in agreement overall. You listed data from a herd of calves that the producer retained ownership. That is what I'm saying is needed across the board if you want to produce better beef and more efficient beef (along with changes in some management practices that could make a real dent in losses). A couple individuals herds, however, don't make a breed. If I could chose a few herd bulls out of any breed, and call them representative, I can make any breed look like a golden goose or cooked goose.

Again, for me I think it comes back to financing and risk. You generally have to feed an entire pen of calves to get data on them. That is a lot of risk for most small time producers.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you been playing this long enough there was a time you couldn't hardly give an Angus away and not that long ago.
99.9% of people couldn't tell you the difference in an Angus or Brimmer T bone. They have bought into the Angus BS hook line and sinker. They are not smart enough to realize CAB had to attack the Brimmer's as they were the industry leader's. Look at the American breed's and the cattlemen of the day that were leading the industry. Shanghi Pierce intoducing the Brahman as they needed better cattle than the longhorn that could survive.
Kennedy crossing S'/H with Brahman to get the Gert, Lasiter crossing Hereford, S/H to get the Beefmaster and LSU I think on the Brangus. All of your American breed's of cattle have Brahman for a dang good reason.
You alway's go after the lead dog.

Again as a group we tend to act like rat's following the piper .

 

[houstoncutter]

Caustic, you are spot on about giving Angus away. I believe the Nor-Tex dispersal sale was in 94. I bought 3 in 1's that all were papered for $425. Nor-Tex had some of the best bloodlines going at the time of their sale.

 

[TexasBred]

Over in your part of the world the brangus cow would be hard to beat. You trim the ear with your bull. Get you a group of brangus girls and come up here in the hills to see my bulls. I will sell you a bull that will trim them ears and put a butt on the calves like a delta queen.

:nod: :nod:

 

[djinwa]

Of course Brahman influence is docked - how could an animal possibly qualify as Certified Angus Beef if it is not 100% Black Angus? lol

We can argue all day about whether Brahman influenced do as well, but we wouldn't need them as much if there wasn't a requirement for black hair, which means less heat tolerance. If you used lighter colored British/Continentals, they could better handle the heat than blacks, and could handle the cold better than Brahman influenced.

Let me snip a few pieces from the article Houston posted:

Yet Brahman crosses in today's marketing environment are often docked. In branded programs and alliances, they're often excluded. This is despite the fact that Bos indicus influence is essential for many producers to run cattle in hot, humid areas.
-------
And, as an Angus breeder, he's well aware of the current buyer preference for black-hided cattle. He sticks with light gray Brahman bulls rather than the ones with red pigment that might dilute the Brangus-type color of his F-1s. His commercial calves are 99% all black. Many of them qualify for the Certified Angus Beef program, which enrolls just one of every six carcasses identified for the program even out of straight Angus pens.

I am forever fascinated with the big picture. Turn everything black so they can't handle the heat, then Bos indicus becomes "essential". Wearing a helmet is "essential" for those who want to hit their head with a hammer. Some of us would just put the hammer down, but if the marketers convince everyone that head hammering is good, I guess we'll all grab hammers.

As animal scientists point out in this article, Bos Indicus might not be "essential" if we just went for lighter color. Again, the marketing of black hair is driving the whole industry.

http://nimss.umd.edu/homepages/home.cfm?trackID=11616

In most areas of the world, cattle destined for slaughter are fattened on grass. In the southern U.S. this requires cattle that are well-adapted to the ambient conditions (high temperature and humidity) and it is usually expected that only Bos indicus or Bos indicus crosses can be sufficiently adapted to such conditions to grow rapidly and efficiently. Since both a light coat color and a short hair length contribute significantly to increased heat tolerance, it is possible that the combination of short hair and lighter coloration will result in an animal with high growth potential under grazing conditions in the southern U.S. without Bos indicus influence.
-----
Over the past two decades black has become the preferred color of feedlot and slaughter cattle in the USA, including the Southern Region. As a result, not only has the influence of Angus cattle increased, but the black gene has been incorporated, through upgrading and selection, into a number of previously red breeds such as the Simmental, Limousin, Gelbvieh, etc. This is in spite of the fact that black colored cattle will absorb more solar radiation than red or other lighter-colored cattle. Studies by Mader et al. (2002) and Davis et al. (2003) both showed rather dramatic (up to 0.5º Celsisus) lower body temperatures while under heat stress for white (dilute-colored Charolais crossbred) as compared to black feedlot steers. This advantage is comparable to the effect of the Slick hair gene for heat tolerance reported by Olson et al. (2003).

 

[Caustic Burno]

It is more than just color and short hair.
Brahman cattle have ability to sweat other than on the nose and they secret an oily substance that replies insect's.
They are disease resistance due the harsh environment they evolved in to survive.

 

[TexasBred]

Of course Brahman influence is docked - how could an animal possibly qualify as Certified Angus Beef if it is not 100% Black Angus? lol

We can argue all day about whether Brahman influenced do as well, but we wouldn't need them as much if there wasn't a requirement for black hair, which means less heat tolerance. If you used lighter colored British/Continentals, they could better handle the heat than blacks, and could handle the cold better than Brahman influenced.

:shock: :shock: :shock: brahman....black :?: :?: :?: dam I thought that was why everyone threw some angus into the mix. :nod:

 

[TexasBred]

It is more than just color and short hair.
Brahman cattle have ability to sweat other than on the nose and they secret an oily substance that replies insect's.
They are disease resistance due the harsh environment they evolved in to survive.

I'm still waiting to see one with a little "ear" to start getting docked around here, regardless of what color it is.

 

[Caustic Burno]

It is more than just color and short hair.
Brahman cattle have ability to sweat other than on the nose and they secret an oily substance that replies insect's.
They are disease resistance due the harsh environment they evolved in to survive.

I'm still waiting to see one with a little "ear" to start getting docked around here, regardless of what color it is.

If they do start docking them there, call me I am heading that way with an empty trailer.
I am going to get rich selling them over here.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

If you been playing this long enough there was a time you couldn't hardly give an Angus away and not that long ago.
99.9% of people couldn't tell you the difference in an Angus or Brimmer T bone. They have bought into the Angus BS hook line and sinker. They are not smart enough to realize CAB had to attack the Brimmer's as they were the industry leader's. Look at the American breed's and the cattlemen of the day that were leading the industry. Shanghi Pierce intoducing the Brahman as they needed better cattle than the longhorn that could survive.
Kennedy crossing S'/H with Brahman to get the Gert, Lasiter crossing Hereford, S/H to get the Beefmaster and LSU I think on the Brangus. All of your American breed's of cattle have Brahman for a dang good reason.
You alway's go after the lead dog.

Again as a group we tend to act like rat's following the piper .

Well, I've lived long enough to know that experience is worth more than figures, but the experience I use is often not my own. I think I understand what you're saying. With an industry as old as agriculture, we've probably re-learned several lessons more than once and then had to re-learn them again.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you been playing this long enough there was a time you couldn't hardly give an Angus away and not that long ago.
99.9% of people couldn't tell you the difference in an Angus or Brimmer T bone. They have bought into the Angus BS hook line and sinker. They are not smart enough to realize CAB had to attack the Brimmer's as they were the industry leader's. Look at the American breed's and the cattlemen of the day that were leading the industry. Shanghi Pierce intoducing the Brahman as they needed better cattle than the longhorn that could survive.
Kennedy crossing S'/H with Brahman to get the Gert, Lasiter crossing Hereford, S/H to get the Beefmaster and LSU I think on the Brangus. All of your American breed's of cattle have Brahman for a dang good reason.
You alway's go after the lead dog.

Again as a group we tend to act like rat's following the piper .

Well, I've lived long enough to know that experience is worth more than figures, but the experience I use is often not my own. I think I understand what you're saying. With an industry as old as agriculture, we've probably re-learned several lessons more than once and then had to re-learn them again.

I have seen everyone chasing Gert's Hereford, Charolias, Simm's, and now Angus and this too shall pass.
As a group we alway's seem to be chasing the fad of the day, instead of just raising better cattle.
I will say this that the drought got a lot in this area reading their Brimmer 101 primer again.
Brahman there crosses or composite's have alway's been popular here those that left them are now trying to put them back in the pasture. They make up 30% of the US cow herd for a reason, they work.
There are three essential breeds in the US Angus, Hereford, and Brahman the rest could disappear and would hardly be missed.