Ear

[HDRider]

I often hear on these boards that folks are docked at sales for their cattle being under the influence of the Brahman breed.

I think there are reasons that Brahman crosses make sense, like heat tolerance in the South. I would like to hear the downside to Brahman influence. Especially like to know why the sales prices take a hit.

Is it higher birth weights and the likely need for assistance at calving?
Is the product not as tender and good to eat?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Is ugly a option? :lol:

 

[Taurus]

I think it has do with too much leather on them.

 

[Anonymous]

Leather and temperment.

 

[lynnmcmahan]

How do they look wrapped in plastic in the display case at WalMarts?

 

[cross_7]

I often hear on these boards that folks are docked at sales for their cattle being under the influence of the Brahman breed.

I think there are reasons that Brahman crosses make sense, like heat tolerance in the South. I would like to hear the downside to Brahman influence. Especially like to know why the sales prices take a hit.Is it higher birth weights and the likely need for assistance at calving?
Is the product not as tender and good to eat?

I'd venture to say feeders take a hit due to that they don't grade as well

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Over in your part of the world the brangus cow would be hard to beat. You trim the ear with your bull. Get you a group of brangus girls and come up here in the hills to see my bulls. I will sell you a bull that will trim them ears and put a butt on the calves like a delta queen.

 

[WarEagle73]

One of the common thoughts on heavily Brahman infuenced cattle is they tend to be a bit more flighty, making them more prone to increased stress in shipping and handling. Increasing stress excessively on fed cattle prior to slaughter can increase the occurance of "dark cutters" or Dark Firm and Dry Carcasses. These carcasses show a dark brick red color with firm meat. This beef tends to be drier and tougher after cooking. Because of that, dark cutting carcasses are discounted heavily and don't qualify for premium branded programs.

Since these eared cattle are thought to have a higher risk of stress related problems such as that, that risk is passed down the chain in terms of lower prices. This may not be the only reason for the dock given to eared calves, but it is one and this is not to say that all brahman cattle have bad temperments and even the almighty Angus steer can be a dark cutter if it is handled rough or has a bad attitude.

 

[Kingfisher]

Over in your part of the world the brangus cow would be hard to beat. You trim the ear with your bull. Get you a group of brangus girls and come up here in the hills to see my bulls. I will sell you a bull that will trim them ears and put a butt on the calves like a delta queen.

How many Brangus girls do you have? What do you run your bulls on? Seems I've seen one of your cows and I recall she was a winner!

 

[Kingfisher]

http://www.steinerranches.com/main/index.php
Then again we could just run a couple of your Bulls down here and see if we can take some ear off em.

 

[brihop]

I often hear on these boards that folks are docked at sales for their cattle being under the influence of the Brahman breed.

I think there are reasons that Brahman crosses make sense, like heat tolerance in the South. I would like to hear the downside to Brahman influence. Especially like to know why the sales prices take a hit.

Is it higher birth weights and the likely need for assistance at calving?
Is the product not as tender and good to eat?

Don't think the part about higher BW applies, or is entirely correct. A pure brahman bull on english cows will drive up BW, but there are plenty of BR influenced breeds that have low BW. Also, a BR or BR influenced cow will typically have less calving problems.

Lower sale prices = meat quality usually not as good.

 

[Jessica06]

I often hear on these boards that folks are docked at sales for their cattle being under the influence of the Brahman breed.

I think there are reasons that Brahman crosses make sense, like heat tolerance in the South. I would like to hear the downside to Brahman influence. Especially like to know why the sales prices take a hit.

Is it higher birth weights and the likely need for assistance at calving?
Is the product not as tender and good to eat?

They don't really take a big hit unless they are half ear or higher. Or just poor quality, which is a category of it's own. It's unfair ( but getting better) that buyers dock cattle if they have a little ear because they perform just as good or better than the English breeds in the feedlot...all of the justifications are outdated and misconceptions. They know that and take advantage of it.

We were watching Superior the other day and they were selling over 600 Brangus calves for one of the Indian ranches in Florida. They kept a load of steers last year and fed them out just to see how they would do. I believe they graded 100% choice with no YG 4s. On a different note, our obviously 1/4 ear Brangus calves always top the market here. Downside to Brahman influence? I don't think there is any in the South.

Higher birthweights are false. We pulled 3 calves from our heifers bred to low birthweight, super calving ease Angus bulls this year. When we were picking a bull to AI heifers to this year, we ended up going with Brangus...all the low BW Angus AI sires had actual birthweights in their calves that were too high for my peace of mind. We have never pulled a calf out of our cows, out of hundreds of calves.

F1s are goofy, but I think any established 5/8 3/8 breed is pretty average on temperament. Our Brangus beat us to the pens for cubes when we pen them. If Brahman influenced calves get a bad rap for temperament, it's because a lot of them never see people until they get penned and hauled to the sale. Charolais sired calves out of F1 cows are the craziest ones to go through our sale barns.

Joe Paschal has written many articles on Brahman influence, if anyone cares to do their own research.

 

[HDRider]

Don't get me wrong guys. I was not stating anything as fact. Hell, I don't know beans about cattle. Just trying to learn.

I guess the one fact that I can state is that a lot of folks here and other places speak of a downgrade on Brahman influences. I just wanted to understand why.

Now I will really through a monkey wrench in the works. I understand full well why Black is Jack. CAB and all... That said, black cattle seem to be a bad idea in the South. Them blacks just gotta be hotter than whites and pale skins.

Founds this, and even considering what it says so many like Blacks, just following the money, and I guess you gotta do what works....

"..especially during July and August, for evidence of heat stress. Special attention should be paid to cattle with increased risk of heat stress including heavy cattle, black cattle and respiratory compromised animals.

Heavy cattle cannot handle heat stress compared to lighter weight cattle. Increased fat deposition prevents cattle from regulating their heat effectively. Solar radiation is a critical component that can lead to death loss from heat stress. Typically, proportionality more black hided cattle die during heat waves then other hide colors. Since cattle rely on respiration as a method to manage heat respiratory function is important. Cattle that had severe respiratory disease early in the feeding period will have decreased ability to regulate their heat load."

http://vetmed.iastate.edu/vdpam/extensi ... eef-cattle

 

[Caustic Burno]

I often hear on these boards that folks are docked at sales for their cattle being under the influence of the Brahman breed.

I think there are reasons that Brahman crosses make sense, like heat tolerance in the South. I would like to hear the downside to Brahman influence. Especially like to know why the sales prices take a hit.

Is it higher birth weights and the likely need for assistance at calving?
Is the product not as tender and good to eat?

They don't really take a big hit unless they are half ear or higher. Or just poor quality, which is a category of it's own. It's unfair ( but getting better) that buyers dock cattle if they have a little ear because they perform just as good or better than the English breeds in the feedlot...all of the justifications are outdated and misconceptions. They know that and take advantage of it.

We were watching Superior the other day and they were selling over 600 Brangus calves for one of the Indian ranches in Florida. They kept a load of steers last year and fed them out just to see how they would do. I believe they graded 100% choice with no YG 4s. On a different note, our obviously 1/4 ear Brangus calves always top the market here. Downside to Brahman influence? I don't think there is any in the South.

Higher birthweights are false. We pulled 3 calves from our heifers bred to low birthweight, super calving ease Angus bulls this year. When we were picking a bull to AI heifers to this year, we ended up going with Brangus...all the low BW Angus AI sires had actual birthweights in their calves that were too high for my peace of mind. We have never pulled a calf out of our cows, out of hundreds of calves.

F1s are goofy, but I think any established 5/8 3/8 breed is pretty average on temperament. Our Brangus beat us to the pens for cubes when we pen them. If Brahman influenced calves get a bad rap for temperament, it's because a lot of them never see people until they get penned and hauled to the sale. Charolais sired calves out of F1 cows are the craziest ones to go through our sale barns.

Joe Paschal has written many articles on Brahman influence, if anyone cares to do their own research.

The F-1's are not goofy they are smart, the reason they get labeled goofy is most people don't know how to handle them.
Smooth and easy they will follow you anywhere. Rough and loud they will blow their nose in your back pocket. They are very aware in changes to there environment. I assure you the 90% American public couldn't tell the difference in an Angus ,Brimer or water buffalo steak. Longhorn is fine eating and goes in the same counter with Angus the buyer's made good money on that one.

 

[Anonymous]

"The F-1's are not goofy they are smart, the reason they get labeled goofy is most people don't know how to handle them.
Smooth and easy they will follow you anywhere. Rough and loud they will blow their nose in your back pocket. They are very aware in changes to there environment. "

I'll agree with that 100%. They get used to easy handling quick enough. But bring someone in they haven't seen before or aren't sure of and they don't cooperate. I've purchased several lately that the sellers weren't keen on just because they wanted To hoot and holler at them but they didn't respond well. Called them high headed. Now they're some of the most cooperative ones we have. Just have to know how to handle them and get them used to you and anyone with you

 

[Bigfoot]

I can answer part of your question. They pay less, because they can. My favorite kinda cow is a super baldie, or just a brangus. I have several bred like that. I can't use an eared bull on them, because I will never get my calves in a graded pen with that much ear.

 

[HDRider]

I can answer part of your question. They pay less, because they can. My favorite kinda cow is a super baldie, or just a brangus. I have several bred like that. I can't use an eared bull on them, because I will never get my calves in a graded pen with that much ear.

So a Breed bull on a Brangus cow takes that ear down enough to keep the money right?


I assume an Angus or a Hereford bull is a favorite over Brangus cows.

What other breeds are favored over a Brangus cow?? Simmental, what else? Is there an absolute no-no over a Brangus?

What is the difference in a Brangus and a Super Baldy?

Thanks everyone....

 

[Taurus]

A super baldy is a Hereford x brangus so it has less Brahman blood in the super baldy than in Brangus.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

In my experience, the feedlots I've been to in Kansas/Colorado, the buyers (feeding their own cattle) won't touch an eared calf. Temperament may be a part of it, but marbling is another part and I believe even rate of gain/conversion of feed. The guys in Texas had more mixed eared cattle, but I think it also had to do with what was available when buying.

We have some 1/4 brangus cattle left that are great mamas and calves grow well. Buy the time you knock off another 1/8th, the ear is much harder to pick out and they fall in line and sell with the rest of our herd.

I may be wrong, but in our area I tend to think that with a small percentage, the benefits (heat tolerance and heterosis) would far outweigh the draw backs. I just don't know what that magical percent is.

The cattle industry is in efficient for not providing kill data to the producers up the line, it would answer a ton of question. But I guess it is all about trying to guess which calf will provide a premium beef price for a not so premium bid, and then again, it would take all the fun out of arguing on here about opinions- people would have hours left over at the end of the year they would have to find something to do with.

 

[cmf1]

Around me generally it is Angus over F1 Braford. Same result, 1/4 Brahman 3/4 british.
Angus over Brangus I think is Ultrablack. Same result.