Durham Red bull. Give me opinions please

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Santas and Duhram Reds":cbf08q3r said:
I have been told by several breeders and by registration services that the Shorthorn Assoc. that the Durham Red breed is being phased out. They are just going to call them Shorthorn Pluses. Fo this reason, we are probably going to stop raising them.
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That's too bad. My ex partner is doing that cross and also some GV/Sh crossed on RA and they are outstanding cattle
 
Jeanne 14 years old is amazing. The heeler is my first one. He fits in great with the weiner dog, the corgi, the aussie shepard and the rottweiler. We get funny looks all the time lol. He is only 7 months and he listenes good so far. He is great with my 3 year old son too.


3way I don't think it will matter to much if they do away with the durham red program and just call them shorthorn plus. Most breeders didn't want to submit that much data on the animal to get a paper. They tried to make it just like red angus requirements full herd reporting and all that but you could get a shorthorn plus paper much easier with just a sire reg. num bw and ww. They will still make there money on it I'm sure. Never seen the GV/ SH cross before, sounds interesting to me. Never tried the simmie /sh cross either. For show ring that could be pretty interesting, say Sullivans bulls on some Dream On daughters. Look Out!!!!! :cowboy: Maybe the simmie side will actuall y put some doability in those Trump genetics. If you don't know shorthorn genetics CF Trump was sire of the year like 7 times. Straight show cattle. Melted faster than butter in the oven when they had to earn their own but feed them up and pretty hard to beat em in the show ring. Trump probably responsible for 80 to 90 percent of the population right now :cry2: Sullivan Farms last sale made 1.34 mill. They have linebred trump and tried to pass them off to commercial buyers in Denver last few years. Not helping the shorthorn breed in my opinion.
 
trevorgreycattleco":1si56htq said:
3way I don't think it will matter to much if they do away with the durham red program and just call them shorthorn plus. Most breeders didn't want to submit that much data on the animal to get a paper. They tried to make it just like red angus requirements full herd reporting and all that but you could get a shorthorn plus paper much easier with just a sire reg. num bw and ww. They will still make there money on it I'm sure. Never seen the GV/ SH cross before, sounds interesting to me. Never tried the simmie /sh cross either. For show ring that could be pretty interesting, say Sullivans bulls on some Dream On daughters. Look Out!!!!! :cowboy: Maybe the simmie side will actuall y put some doability in those Trump genetics. If you don't know shorthorn genetics CF Trump was sire of the year like 7 times. Straight show cattle. Melted faster than butter in the oven when they had to earn their own but feed them up and pretty hard to beat em in the show ring. Trump probably responsible for 80 to 90 percent of the population right now :cry2: Sullivan Farms last sale made 1.34 mill. They have linebred trump and tried to pass them off to commercial buyers in Denver last few years. Not helping the shorthorn breed in my opinion.
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That was interesting reading, thanks. We have some shorthorn and RA, but like you said, it was too much work to register them as Durham Red so we didn't bother. I've found it very hard to find good shorthorn cows. They are big and framey and lose their condition easily. At a shorthorn sale I attended, I overheard some of the breeders talking about pulling calves. It was nothing to them, perfectly normal and just part of the routine. I found it very irritating because I think they're wonderful cattle being ruined for the range and practical use.
 
2B http://www.leveldale.com/ http://www.lakesideshorthorns.com/ http://www.aandtcattle.com/ are some places that raise real world cattle, collect the data and report it, and run a honest program. the cattle have worked for me and continue to do so. Rob Sneed in Missouri is another breeder(no website). He linebreeds heavily and his steers have won feed out trials quite a few times and his mamas are awesome. I'm using a bull from him naturally now. His sire is at cattle visions RS DV 729 01 034 04. http://www.cattlevisions.com/Shorthorn/RS_DV_729.php Not the best picture of him but his mother on there too. Any comments?
 
wish I could help ya there but only ones I know of are straight show breeders. Maybe Bigelow farms In O'Neal Cali. Another might be Don Cardey I believe is his name. no websites on either that I can find. Not sure of their genetics either just have heard there names before.
 
Dun I got confused on whiche bull you were talking about sorry. I am not using that bull he is for sale. I have know about 4912 tho. The bull for sale I bred to make feeder cattle. I would like to see him on black cows and put all those calves on the feedlot and I'm pretty sure I will have a bunch of happy freezer beef customers!
 
My impression was that the Durham Red project was set up originaly to offer a high accuracy genetic defect free Shorthorn influenced composite as a way for the breed to break into the commercial market. Turning in data or testing for defects are extra effort but anything successful takes a bit of effort.It would be a shame to loose this program.So now we have Shorthorn Plus,it is easy and has swung the door wide open for our breed to take advantage of all the known Angus defects to enhance our breeds own problems.
I am of the opinion that no Shorthorn Plus animal no matter how high the percentage should be issued Purebred status unless tested negative for all known cattle defects.
 
It's stupid if you ask me. Durham Reds were an opportunity to produce an animal that could use the positive aspects of Shorthorn in the real world, but too many people in the breed want the breed to become a hobby breed and focus on clubby calves I guess. Yes it required more work and reporting data and bloodwork but part of the reason the bloodwork has to be done is because of the genetic mess the Shorthorn breed is now. Shorthorn Plus is just more of the same practices they've used in the past. I basically told them that if they phase out Durham Reds then I will phase them out of my herd. I have no use for Shorthorn Plus cattle when the immediate connotation that comes with them is Club Calves and I think most cattlemen view them the same way.
 
I agree with both of the last two posts. i never minded turning in data that they need. I'm interested in only breeding on with the best and if they need me to report the data, I will report the data. I agree shorthorn plus sounds like club calf buisness. I agree with the testing to achieve purebred staus as well.
 
Santas and Duhram Reds":20cnllhy said:
It's stupid if you ask me. Durham Reds were an opportunity to produce an animal that could use the positive aspects of Shorthorn in the real world, but too many people in the breed want the breed to become a hobby breed and focus on clubby calves I guess. Yes it required more work and reporting data and bloodwork but part of the reason the bloodwork has to be done is because of the genetic mess the Shorthorn breed is now. Shorthorn Plus is just more of the same practices they've used in the past. I basically told them that if they phase out Durham Reds then I will phase them out of my herd. I have no use for Shorthorn Plus cattle when the immediate connotation that comes with them is Club Calves and I think most cattlemen view them the same way.
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If you still want to register your Durham Reds you could do so through the Red Angus Association as a registered Catagory 3, Red Angus. I believe that the Catagory 3 cattle are those that have less than 87% Red Angus blood. It won't have the official designation as a Durham Red through the Shorthorn Association, but it is possible to have them registered in the RA Association. Perhaps someone can correct me if i am mistaken.
 
Any breed association is going to go in the direction that the members want to take it. If the majority of shorthorn breeders want the shorthorn association to concentrate their efforts on the club calf market then that is what will happen. If the majority of members are serious about being in the BEEF business then they will focus on being a part of the commercial cattle industry.
I have always felt that if you can put food on the table for your family and what you are doing is not immoral or illegal then who am I to critcize. That being said, to me, shorthorn plus cattle are simply commercial, crossbred cattle. I personally will not use a bull that is not fullblood (in my mind their is a difference between fullblood and purebred). I feel that there are still excellent quality BEEF shorthorn cattle being raised by some breeders. If the day ever comes that I can't find excellent quality fullblood shorthorns then I will have to reconsider my position. I still believe that good shorthorns have a positive role to play in the BEEF industry.
If anyone is interested in using shorthorn genetics that are bred for the BEEF industry you may have to do some looking, but good shorthorns can be found. Just don't expect to find them at the major shows. I have been told that the shorthorn cattle that are winning in the U.S.A. look like they do because of corn and hair, nothing more. Thank goodness it is not that way in Canada.
 

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