Drought Observations

[rocfarm]

Cows definitely don't need hay to survive. Standing grass is always a good option but in my experience stock piled grass doesn't work very good either. Feeding them a good commodity mix is probably the best option but at these prices I'm not sure it will dollar out. Bottom line is everyone has a different situation and needs to find what works best for their operation.

But add 30% cooked tubs to the poor stockpile and cows will add weight if they are not lactating if they are moderate framed. Seen it work. And if there is green in the stockpile (fescue, winter grass, volunteer oats, etc.) it can be good stuff.

I'm about to find out what stockpiled grazing will look like in central Texas after some fall drought relief. Will try to post a few pics this winter.

 

[Brute 23]

Cows definitely don't need hay to survive. Standing grass is always a good option but in my experience stock piled grass doesn't work very good either. Feeding them a good commodity mix is probably the best option but at these prices I'm not sure it will dollar out. Bottom line is everyone has a different situation and needs to find what works best for their

Feeding hay is self inflicted and not very sporting when raising cattle.

 

[Brute 23]

It is interesting the different mentality area by area.

I don't know if you could sell hay here with our loading it out. Most people buying hay are not going to have the equipment for both ends and hauling in between.

When I go up around Waco they love accumulating equipment. It's not like that here.

 

[Otha]

There is certainly a wide variety of conditions that people raise cattle in. We do try to minimize what hay we feed but it seems to be more profitable to at least feed for a month or two. With a killing frost mid October to mid November and normally wet winters stock pilled grass needs to be eating by the end of the year or it will began to lay down and rot. And nothing much grows naturally from November to march here. So January to march is either hay feeding season or grazing from planted annuals.

For those that don't feed any hay, how do you do it? Low stocking rate so you can stock pile enough grass? Are you feeding other outside inputs to help stretch the grass out? With this year as an exception good quality hay is usually the cheapest way to supplement a cow on low protein stockpile.

 

[Lucky]

Feeding hay is self inflicted and not very sporting when raising cattle.

It is interesting the different mentality area by area.

I don't know if you could sell hay here with our loading it out. Most people buying hay are not going to have the equipment for both ends and hauling in between.

When I go up around Waco they love accumulating equipment. It's not like that here.

What do you feed if not feeding hay? I've got a few friends that feed 10-12# commodity mix and what ever pickin is left and their cattle do fine. I imagine the weather has allot to do with our feeding differences. I'm definitely heading in the direction of little to no hay. If I hadn't got such a deal on hay the last 2 years I'd be there now.

Are you saying most ranchers in your area don't have a couple loader tractors? I've got a loader tractor and a skid steer, so haul or drive tractor to load out area. Most hay suppliers around here just don't have the man power to put a man in the field all day loading out hay. They have the equipment but it's tied up haying generally. We also load of the meadow 99% of the time, it's extra $$ to load out of a stack lot most of the time. Regional differences are interesting to me.

 

[Lucky]

But add 30% cooked tubs to the poor stockpile and cows will add weight if they are not lactating if they are moderate framed. Seen it work. And if there is green in the stockpile (fescue, winter grass, volunteer oats, etc.) it can be good stuff.

I'm about to find out what stockpiled grazing will look like in central Texas after some fall drought relief. Will try to post a few pics this winter.

For us tubs just become to costly. We do use them from time to time but not often. We've also found any stockpiled grass turns into the equivalent of a cheap bag of potato chips around January. The cattle will eat it but it doesn't have any nutritional value and their still hungry. Don't get me wrong they'll have some pickin but it's not part of their diet.

The way we feed I've found that with hay @ $40 and bulk feed @ $225 a ton it's cheaper to feed straight commodity mix and no hay. You have to be setup to feed this way and it is fairly costly but if done right it's a 1 time exspense. On years like this a truck feeder and concrete troughs would easliy pay for itself in hay savings.

Good luck with tubs this year. I hope you have plenty roughage available and we have a dry mild winter. It's been a tough year.

 

[callmefence]

For us tubs just become to costly. We do use them from time to time but not often. We've also found any stockpiled grass turns into the equivalent of a cheap bag of potato chips around January. The cattle will eat it but it doesn't have any nutritional value and their still hungry. Don't get me wrong they'll have some pickin but it's not part of their diet.

The way we feed I've found that with hay @ $40 and bulk feed @ $225 a ton it's cheaper to feed straight commodity mix and no hay. You have to be setup to feed this way and it is fairly costly but if done right it's a 1 time exspense. On years like this a truck feeder and concrete troughs would easliy pay for itself in hay savings.

Good luck with tubs this year. I hope you have plenty roughage available and we have a dry mild winter. It's been a tough year.

Wouldn't a 10-12 commodity mix at 225.00 and good quality hay at 110.00
Per 1000. Pound roll pencil about the same???
Pretty much equal in protein. The grain would surely have a advantage in energy.
While the hay would win in the fiber department as well as less labor and infrastructure.

 

[Lucky]

Wouldn't a 10-12 commodity mix at 225.00 and good quality hay at 110.00
Per 1000. Pound roll pencil about the same???
Pretty much equal in protein. The grain would surely have a advantage in energy.
While the hay would win in the fiber department as well as less labor and infrastructure.

Depends on how much you fed them. When I feed $40 hay I shoot for 25# per head and supplement 3-4 # 14% commodity mix. I unroll hay and feed every day rain or shine. When I tried the really high quality Jiggs irrigated and fertlized hay for a few years I fed 30# of just hay. At $60 a roll this penciled out and was easy. They delivered and stacked it in the barn for me too. Anything over $60 got in my pocket. I have to fill the feeder everyday to feed yearlings so it's no extra work to feed commodity to the cows. If I was spread out over several places this would all change.

 

[Brute 23]

What do you feed if not feeding hay? I've got a few friends that feed 10-12# commodity mix and what ever pickin is left and their cattle do fine. I imagine the weather has allot to do with our feeding differences. I'm definitely heading in the direction of little to no hay. If I hadn't got such a deal on hay the last 2 years I'd be there now.

Are you saying most ranchers in your area don't have a couple loader tractors? I've got a loader tractor and a skid steer, so haul or drive tractor to load out area. Most hay suppliers around here just don't have the man power to put a man in the field all day loading out hay. They have the equipment but it's tied up haying generally. We also load of the meadow 99% of the time, it's extra $$ to load out of a stack lot most of the time. Regional differences are interesting to me.

No they do not. If they do they are a pretty large operation and won't be buying hay.

Mid size will run a tractor with a self dump trailer maybe.

Small will have a little tractor with a bunch of implements to play with.

I have 2 or 3 people selling hay now. They all offer load out and will haul or have nunvers for people who will haul if you can't.

I doubt any one would let another person load out on their land... too much liability.

 

[rocfarm]

There is certainly a wide variety of conditions that people raise cattle in. We do try to minimize what hay we feed but it seems to be more profitable to at least feed for a month or two. With a killing frost mid October to mid November and normally wet winters stock pilled grass needs to be eating by the end of the year or it will began to lay down and rot. And nothing much grows naturally from November to march here. So January to march is either hay feeding season or grazing from planted annuals.

For those that don't feed any hay, how do you do it? Low stocking rate so you can stock pile enough grass? Are you feeding other outside inputs to help stretch the grass out? With this year as an exception good quality hay is usually the cheapest way to supplement a cow on low protein stockpile.

I've got grass that doesn't lay down like that. Furthermore, research says save your native grasses for winter stockpile, not the improved. It holds protein content a bit better, and, cows confirm this by hitting it first in the winter. So I have about 75 acres of native stuff I don't graze from August to first killing frost, hoping it will grow a lot in the fall. I leave my cows off of it until about 2 to three weeks after that first hard freeze, and rotate them into the last 20 acres of it about Jan 15, hoping march will see some decent green Texas winter grass in the rested fields. Got a few acres of oat food plots for deer that I also try to strategically graze if opportunity allows, giving a boost here and there.

Also, 30% cooked tubs bring the protein content back up, so a must in my opinion. Stockpile has about 5% to 8% protein content. Cows can usually bring that amount to 8% needed for a maintenance diet by eating 1lb of tub per day. If you are there, feeding cubes is a cheaper way to supplement protein. If you want the cheapest, liquid molasses with mineral supplement added.

Finally, letting cows lose a bcs of about .5 in the winter is not a big deal if they start out 5.25/5.5 or above. Stocking rate does need to be low and I like to rotationally graze my paddocks. Also researching using solar charged electric fence to further subdivide. I rotate cattle about once a month.

I have met a guy at the NRCS who says he never feeds hay, so this method has 'expert' proponents.

But a caveat might be related to soil types. We've got clay loam where I'm at. It doesn't leach nutrients hardly at all and holds water quite well. I think Comanche has quite a bit of sandy soil. Might affect things quite a bit.

 

[rocfarm]

For us tubs just become to costly. We do use them from time to time but not often. We've also found any stockpiled grass turns into the equivalent of a cheap bag of potato chips around January. The cattle will eat it but it doesn't have any nutritional value and their still hungry. Don't get me wrong they'll have some pickin but it's not part of their diet.

The way we feed I've found that with hay @ $40 and bulk feed @ $225 a ton it's cheaper to feed straight commodity mix and no hay. You have to be setup to feed this way and it is fairly costly but if done right it's a 1 time exspense. On years like this a truck feeder and concrete troughs would easliy pay for itself in hay savings.

Good luck with tubs this year. I hope you have plenty roughage available and we have a dry mild winter. It's been a tough year.

You are 100% right on the tubs. Not efficient cost wise, but very convenient and effective. Near as I can tell, they cost about $.50 (50 cents) per head/per day. If you set them out 6 months of the year, thats about $180 to $220 per cow (assuming their calves consume a bit as well, here). Tubs also have minerals added, so no mineral blocks needed during that time. And some years cattle can graze green stuff 8 months or more, so potential savings there.

Cubes or bulk feed definitely cheaper, but hobby ranchers who are not there every day need the convenience and peace of mind. Also, if I get 80% breed back and lose 1 cow/heifer per year, it still pencils out ok if I only feed tubs in drought and winter, .

 

[Lee VanRoss]

With the corn yield being what I'm seeing the chances of $225. per ton commodity mix is zilch to none.
I am of the opinion that if one has the means to take feeders to 1500 and a good yield and grade that
you will be rewarded for your efforts. Saw 5 red heifers go through the ring yesterday 1444 # @ $147.75
There were others selling in the same area but I never wrote those down.

 

[anewcomer]

Grazed forage versus fed forage is a key factor to profitability. This will vary depending on location,but the principle is the same. Grazed forage, even with a protein supplement is a winner. Some level of hay supplement may be necessary in certain environments, but the principle is the same. Timing your calving to your forage is the #1 rule in the cattle business!

 

[Brute 23]

With $4-5 diesel, the cost of trucks and equipment, and now hay prices... that tub is looking better and better by the day. I can put out lots of tubs out with my $2K F150 and an old raggedy low boy.

It's even better when I just pick up the phone and they fill the bulk molasses troughs.

 

[rocfarm]

With the corn yield being what I'm seeing the chances of $225. per ton commodity mix is zilch to none.
I am of the opinion that if one has the means to take feeders to 1500 and a good yield and grade that
you will be rewarded for your efforts. Saw 5 red heifers go through the ring yesterday 1444 # @ $147.75
There were others selling in the same area but I never wrote those down

Can see it.

 

[rocfarm]

With $4-5 diesel, the cost of trucks and equipment, and now hay prices... that tub is looking better and better by the day. I can put out lots of tubs out with my $2K F150 and an old raggedy low boy.

It's even better when I just pick up the phone and they fill the bulk molasses troughs.

I'm hoping that's the case. Should be a corresponding increase in calf prices that also makes those tubs look attractive, because I only put them out once every two months, saving that fuel cost…

 

[TexasRancher]

If we get more rain and a late first frost, central Texas stockpiled forage will be looking pretty good. Supposed to rain again Thursday and Friday. Fingers crossed.

We just got 2.5" of rain on Sunday and now with what looks like it might be another 2" maybe even 3" of rain on Friday (tomorrow)...I'm thinking the same thing...if the frost can hold off....it's going to be good for stockpiled growth. Got my fences closed.

 

[TexasRancher]

There is certainly a wide variety of conditions that people raise cattle in. We do try to minimize what hay we feed but it seems to be more profitable to at least feed for a month or two. With a killing frost mid October to mid November and normally wet winters stock pilled grass needs to be eating by the end of the year or it will began to lay down and rot. And nothing much grows naturally from November to march here. So January to march is either hay feeding season or grazing from planted annuals.

For those that don't feed any hay, how do you do it? Low stocking rate so you can stock pile enough grass? Are you feeding other outside inputs to help stretch the grass out? With this year as an exception good quality hay is usually the cheapest way to supplement a cow on low protein stockpile.

For my area around Dallas, Ellis, Hunt counties, always a day in Feb 20th-28th marks the first day of full on grazing (no feed)...and cattle on their own after that. They either eat the first greens/weeds or go hungry. All grasses and plants start hammering well by March 15th so it's important to get them to eat and trim down those fast growing weeds two to three weeks before, else the pasture will not do as well. I haven't been able to lock-down the end-date to grazing due to droughts and not being able to stockpile forage as much as i wished....which might be a good thing....cause I'm now seeking to graze year round and supplement/experiment with other types of bulk feed. I'm having successful cost-saving victories over hay..it's challenging but i'm loven it.
Maybe next year if hay costs come down I'll move back over to hay...but right now, I'm kicking butt without hay. Processed grains are less expensive.

 

[TexasRancher]

With the corn yield being what I'm seeing the chances of $225. per ton commodity mix is zilch to none.
I am of the opinion that if one has the means to take feeders to 1500 and a good yield and grade that
you will be rewarded for your efforts. Saw 5 red heifers go through the ring yesterday 1444 # @ $147.75
There were others selling in the same area but I never wrote those down.

$148 seems a little low.... but then with 289lbs calves, weened early; I suspect it's because they weren't in the "safer" 350 to 400lb range to command $158 to 168. Your thoughts?

 

[Lee VanRoss]

$148 seems a little low.... but then with 289lbs calves, weened early; I suspect it's because they weren't in the "safer" 350 to 400lb range to command $158 to 168. Your thoughts?

That's each TR. The ticket was $9580.50 for the 5 head. Sorry if I mislead you.
If I remember right there was a heavy steer that brought close to $2400.
It takes a strong constitution to stay with them if you decide to take them all the way.
I had a lame cow that I did not want to go into the winter and had to wait until the fats sold.
She brought $ 940 and change. I never stayed to see what come through after mine sold.