Don't Meet Someone to settle a score!

[TennesseeTuxedo]

That's the genius of Cleon. He was threatened so he invited the trouble to meet him at a neutral site. If the threat wasn't real the guy could have simply pulled a George Jones and "no showed".

 

[slick4591]

Too many questions, GB. I want to know what you would do since you implied what a "good" LE officer would do.

 

[greybeard]

I will follow the laws of this county, state and nation. If the threat is imminent I will shoot him dead, but I will make sure that is a real threat, and someone just "saying" they are going to kill me isn't nearly good enough. Not for me, my God, or for the law I live under. Words never killed anyone--ever.
That's the part you machos won't accept.
You murder a man based on his word, you may as well have found some way to MAKE him kill you, because either way, you won't be around to provide for or protect your family. You'll either be in prison or dead from the needle in your arm up at Huntsville.
I'll also bet, under thesame circumstances, everyone here would take a different approach than Cleon did. You don't strike me as a bunch of murderers.

I answered it, honestly and directly.
Your turn.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Does Cleon's alleged antagonist not share any responsibility for the events that unfolded so many years ago?

 

[slick4591]

I will follow the laws of this county, state and nation. If the threat is imminent I will shoot him dead, but I will make sure that is a real threat, and someone just "saying" they are going to kill me isn't nearly good enough. Not for me, my God, or for the law I live under. Words never killed anyone--ever.
That's the part you machos won't accept.
You murder a man based on his word, you may as well have found some way to MAKE him kill you, because either way, you won't be around to provide for or protect your family. You'll either be in prison or dead from the needle in your arm up at Huntsville.
I'll also bet, under thesame circumstances, everyone here would take a different approach than Cleon did. You don't strike me as a bunch of murderers.


I answered it, honestly and directly.
Your turn.

My turn?

In ifarm26's scenario that officer's home was shot up after the threat was made, which gives the threat a little more teeth. But, that aside...

*

I'm reading that you're telling us that following the laws is more important than protecting your family?

To tell the truth I haven't read about Cleon until today and then only after I made my initial response. ifarm26's scenario struck a nerve with me because it's pretty close to a situation that happened in one department I worked. *I later went on to use the scenario in oral boards that I sat on, but that's another story and can get a little hairy with the question and answers.

You'll be glad to know no one was murdered in that deal, but it took about a month and a half of "good" solid police work to get the guys back in jail and out on bond again. (I'm sure the tax payers enjoyed coughing up all the overtime.) We made those guys lives hell throughout the time tho, but got them before they really did kill the officer and her family.

Since the defendants didn't get a lot of time the officer felt it necessary to uproot her family for their protection and go to another department out of state. So, I guess she's a good cop that had to change her world because of scum. I, personally, feel that the system failed that "good" officer. The guys had planned on another attempted hit but the constant surveillance prevented that.

Frankly, machoness aside, killing them would have been a public service.

Guess I'm just getting a few of my feelings out because I read to often that you don't have much good to say about LE. Ride a few hours in their squad and deal with some of what they have to go thru and maybe you can understand why the "good" ones don't like getting lumped into a category.

 

[fitz]

I have been watching this thread and I decided I need to throw my 2 cents in as well. No one knows how they will respond when a man who has a dangerous reputation with nothing to lose threatens you. I will make the admission openly that I am in law enforcement and I know I will be dam*ed by some on here because of that. A fellow law enforcement officer made an arrest on two drug dealing thugs that were known for their ill reguard for property and life in our area. They told him that they would get him. Well guess what, they made bond which everyone has a right to unless its murder or the like, and yes the judge knew about the threat.
Two days later his home was shot up while he, his wife, and infant daughter were inside. No one was injured, but how do you think he looks at threats now? If they are dead set on settling the score, you can bet that no law, or piece of paper that says to stay away, is going to work.

I don't know why. My Daughter is a Police Officer and I couldn't be prouder of her. She, you and any other can't be paid enough for the type of people you have to deal with daily. I would never say what type of LI my Daughter is in but I can assure anyone she deals with those that would cut your throat for a ten dollar bill. I just pray every day she comes home to my Granddaughter after every shift.

Tell you another that's not real popular here. My Son is a UNION engineer for the railroad and he's tops in my book also.

fitz

 

[inyati13]

Cleon Begley was born in Hyden, KY in 1906. He was raised in Leslie County, KY; one of the most remote areas of Kentucky. Tom T. Hall wrote a song about a terrible mine tradgedy in Hyden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Gmlp7PeDw&feature=kp
Richard Nixon made his first public appearance post resignation in Hyden, KY because the folks of Leslie County were still loyal.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 871,759769

He moved to Hazard, Ky where he eventually became a policeman and was promoted to Police Chief. I have tried without success to find records of his servive on the web. In fact, there is not a listing of Hazard Police Chiefs and their service. If anyone is better at searching the internet and can find it, please share it with us.

After his service with the City of Hazard, Cleon continued to live there and went to work for the Louisville & Nashville Rairoad. He was a Railroad Dick (not a vulgar term). He was unlucky enough in his term with the railroad to be right at a time when the mines were trying to unionize. Much of his time was spent conducting surveilance on railroad bridges to check for explosives. Nitroglycerin was the most common explosive being employed. Cleon had one son who could still be living. If so, he would be about 70. Because he was about 6 years older than me. Cleon was a legend in Hazard, KY for his service.

I know one of the officers who investigated the shooting that I mentioned in the original post. He may be dead now. But I worked with him for a year when he was a criminal investigator for the Kentucky Division of Reclamation. It was no secret what happened to the man who threatened Cleon!!!!!

 

[greybeard]

because I read to often that you don't have much good to say about LE

Ahh-you think because I don't like dirty cops, that I also don't like the very high numbers of them that are dedicated and professional in every way. That, is your prerogative. It's completely untrue, but it is still your prerogative to think so. I'm not one to take that right away from anyone.

Cleon, may have been the best and most dedicated law enforcement officer in Kentucky history, but that pales in comparison to the established and accepted fact that he was also a murderer. He doesn't get to have it both ways--nor I or you or anyone else. He crossed the line.
Remember the character Jake Spoon?

 

[inyati13]

because I read to often that you don't have much good to say about LE

Ahh-you think because I don't like dirty cops, that I also don't like the very high numbers of them that are dedicated and professional in every way. That, is your prerogative. It's completely untrue, but it is still your prerogative to think so. I'm not one to take that right away from anyone.

Cleon, may have been the best and most dedicated law enforcement officer in Kentucky history, but that pales in comparison to the established and accepted fact that he was also a murderer. He doesn't get to have it both ways--nor I or you or anyone else. He crossed the line.
Remember the character Jake Spoon?

Who are you talking to GB? Because I am not thinking nothing about what you are posting. You made your point. I respect it. I think you are naive and too innocent minded but I admire your principle. I just don't share it.
I love Lonesome Dove but I realize it is entertainment!

 

[inyati13]

Sorry, GB, you were not posting to me.

 

[Ryder]

Hard to find anything worse than a bad cop.
Hard to find anything better than a good cop. Especially when you need them.

 

[slick4591]

because I read to often that you don't have much good to say about LE

Ahh-you think because I don't like dirty cops, that I also don't like the very high numbers of them that are dedicated and professional in every way. That, is your prerogative. It's completely untrue, but it is still your prerogative to think so. I'm not one to take that right away from anyone.

Cleon, may have been the best and most dedicated law enforcement officer in Kentucky history, but that pales in comparison to the established and accepted fact that he was also a murderer. He doesn't get to have it both ways--nor I or you or anyone else. He crossed the line.
Remember the character Jake Spoon?

I don't like dirty cops either, GB. I just wished it weren't all bad that I read. Plenty of good ones out there that don't like the bad and are doing their part to get rid of them. Don't watch mini-series so I don't know the character.

As far as Cleon goes, I can't imagine anyone doing that at any point in my career.

 

[greybeard]

Cleon Begley was born in Hyden, KY in 1906. He was raised in Leslie County, KY; one of the most remote areas of Kentucky. Tom T. Hall wrote a song about a terrible mine tradgedy in Hyden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Gmlp7PeDw&feature=kp
Richard Nixon made his first public appearance post resignation in Hyden, KY because the folks of Leslie County were still loyal.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 871,759769

He moved to Hazard, Ky where he eventually became a policeman and was promoted to Police Chief. I have tried without success to find records of his servive on the web. In fact, there is not a listing of Hazard Police Chiefs and their service. If anyone is better at searching the internet and can find it, please share it with us.

After his service with the City of Hazard, Cleon continued to live there and went to work for the Louisville & Nashville Rairoad. He was a Railroad Dick (not a vulgar term). He was unlucky enough in his term with the railroad to be right at a time when the mines were trying to unionize. Much of his time was spent conducting surveilance on railroad bridges to check for explosives. Nitroglycerin was the most common explosive being employed. Cleon had one son who could still be living. If so, he would be about 70. Because he was about 6 years older than me. Cleon was a legend in Hazard, KY for his service.

I know one of the officers who investigated the shooting that I mentioned in the original post. He may be dead now. But I worked with him for a year when he was a criminal investigator for the Kentucky Division of Reclamation. It was no secret what happened to the man who threatened Cleon!!!!!

This the same Cleon?

June 11, 1963.
"On that date John Mitchell Smith, an inspector, and Cleon Begley, a sergeant, of the L. and N. police, were patroling their employer\'s tracks in an isolated area south of Hazard, in Perry County, Kentucky, in a motorcar being driven by Sgt. Begley. They stopped on a hill overlooking a railroad bridge at Daisy, Kentucky, about 1:45 or 2:00 a. m. in the course of their patroling activities. As their vehicle stopped, Inspector Smith flashed the vehicle\'s spotlight on the bridge, and the officers saw two men standing near a three-foot stack of materials (afterward ascertained to be high explosives) just above the center pillar of the bridge. The officers alighted from the vehicle quickly, and Sgt. Begley fired a dozen or more shots from a 30-caliber carbine in the direction of the trespassers, who fled off the north end of the bridge into bushes. The officers thereupon re-entered their automobile and drove rapidly in the same direction to a road leading off of Kentucky state highway route 699 around the north end of the Daisy bridge. There, parked just off the roadway, the officers saw the defendant Gibson\'s automobile, in which an unidentified occupant was seated under the steering wheel. The officers drew their weapons and ordered the occupant out of the Gibson vehicle and into their own. The defendant Bige Hensley emerged without further action and was placed in the back seat of the car Sgt. Begley had been driving. Although it appears from the evidence that the defendant Mr. Hensley may not ever have been formally arrested, from that time of the officers\' interruption, Mr. Hensley\'s liberty of movement was restricted by these and other officers and, for purposes of this action, his arrest was complete. Henry v. United States (1959), 361 U.S. 98, 103, 80 S.Ct. 168, 4 L.Ed.2d 134.
"The officers then investigated further. On the front seat of the Gibson automobile, they found and seized a 25-caliber automatic pistol and in the back seat 1 a roll of blasting fuse. They asked their prisoner to identify the materials on the bridge, and Mr. Hensley replied that he did not know; otherwise, the railroad policemen did not interrogate the prisoner. Suspecting the material to be high explosives, the officers undertook to (1) prevent its detonation, (2) preserve this evidence of crime and (3) apprehend the other trespasser or trespassers they had previously seen on railroad property. While Mr. Hensley was in custody in the automobile, Sgt. Begley heard noises in a nearby wooded section, called for anyone therein to identify themselves, and receiving no response, fired additional shots in the
*345
direction of the noises heard. Further investigation by the officers revealed that the material they had previously seen on the railroad bridge was large quantities of both liquified and solidified nitroglycerin with blasting fuses and caps attached and `ready to go.\'

https://casetext.com/case/united-states ... w6JUPldW20

I believe his son may have also been named Cleon--if so, he died in 2008 at age 66.

 

[inyati13]

Cleon Begley was born in Hyden, KY in 1906. He was raised in Leslie County, KY; one of the most remote areas of Kentucky. Tom T. Hall wrote a song about a terrible mine tradgedy in Hyden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Gmlp7PeDw&feature=kp
Richard Nixon made his first public appearance post resignation in Hyden, KY because the folks of Leslie County were still loyal.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 871,759769

He moved to Hazard, Ky where he eventually became a policeman and was promoted to Police Chief. I have tried without success to find records of his servive on the web. In fact, there is not a listing of Hazard Police Chiefs and their service. If anyone is better at searching the internet and can find it, please share it with us.

After his service with the City of Hazard, Cleon continued to live there and went to work for the Louisville & Nashville Rairoad. He was a Railroad Dick (not a vulgar term). He was unlucky enough in his term with the railroad to be right at a time when the mines were trying to unionize. Much of his time was spent conducting surveilance on railroad bridges to check for explosives. Nitroglycerin was the most common explosive being employed. Cleon had one son who could still be living. If so, he would be about 70. Because he was about 6 years older than me. Cleon was a legend in Hazard, KY for his service.

I know one of the officers who investigated the shooting that I mentioned in the original post. He may be dead now. But I worked with him for a year when he was a criminal investigator for the Kentucky Division of Reclamation. It was no secret what happened to the man who threatened Cleon!!!!!

This the same Cleon?

June 11, 1963.
"On that date John Mitchell Smith, an inspector, and Cleon Begley, a sergeant, of the L. and N. police, were patroling their employer\'s tracks in an isolated area south of Hazard, in Perry County, Kentucky, in a motorcar being driven by Sgt. Begley. They stopped on a hill overlooking a railroad bridge at Daisy, Kentucky, about 1:45 or 2:00 a. m. in the course of their patroling activities. As their vehicle stopped, Inspector Smith flashed the vehicle\'s spotlight on the bridge, and the officers saw two men standing near a three-foot stack of materials (afterward ascertained to be high explosives) just above the center pillar of the bridge. The officers alighted from the vehicle quickly, and Sgt. Begley fired a dozen or more shots from a 30-caliber carbine in the direction of the trespassers, who fled off the north end of the bridge into bushes. The officers thereupon re-entered their automobile and drove rapidly in the same direction to a road leading off of Kentucky state highway route 699 around the north end of the Daisy bridge. There, parked just off the roadway, the officers saw the defendant Gibson\'s automobile, in which an unidentified occupant was seated under the steering wheel. The officers drew their weapons and ordered the occupant out of the Gibson vehicle and into their own. The defendant Bige Hensley emerged without further action and was placed in the back seat of the car Sgt. Begley had been driving. Although it appears from the evidence that the defendant Mr. Hensley may not ever have been formally arrested, from that time of the officers\' interruption, Mr. Hensley\'s liberty of movement was restricted by these and other officers and, for purposes of this action, his arrest was complete. Henry v. United States (1959), 361 U.S. 98, 103, 80 S.Ct. 168, 4 L.Ed.2d 134.
"The officers then investigated further. On the front seat of the Gibson automobile, they found and seized a 25-caliber automatic pistol and in the back seat 1 a roll of blasting fuse. They asked their prisoner to identify the materials on the bridge, and Mr. Hensley replied that he did not know; otherwise, the railroad policemen did not interrogate the prisoner. Suspecting the material to be high explosives, the officers undertook to (1) prevent its detonation, (2) preserve this evidence of crime and (3) apprehend the other trespasser or trespassers they had previously seen on railroad property. While Mr. Hensley was in custody in the automobile, Sgt. Begley heard noises in a nearby wooded section, called for anyone therein to identify themselves, and receiving no response, fired additional shots in the
*345
direction of the noises heard. Further investigation by the officers revealed that the material they had previously seen on the railroad bridge was large quantities of both liquified and solidified nitroglycerin with blasting fuses and caps attached and `ready to go.\'

https://casetext.com/case/united-states ... w6JUPldW20

I believe his son may have also been named Cleon--if so, he died in 2008 at age 66.

GB, I do not remember his sons name, but he was a tall man. That is possible because he would have been about 66 in 2008. He also worked for the L&N. He was a RR engineer or something like that. He was gone most of the time I was with Cleon or sleeping because he worked odd hours. Yes, that is the report I pasted on the OP. Cleon was initially a sargent with the L&N. How did you find his son might be Cleon?

 

[greybeard]

Also worked for the water dept and still openly carried a S&W nickel plated pistol while employed at the water treatment plant.

His son?

He was 66 years old. C.W. was born at Confluence(Hell-For-Certain),Kentucky the son of the late Cleon C. Begley and the late Rixie Pratt Begley. By occupation he was a retired Railroad Engineer, former Hazard City Policeman & firefighter.

 

[inyati13]

GB, I sincerely thank you. That is Cleon's son. Looks so much like Cleon when I knew Cleon. It hurts to see his picture. I loved Cleon like a father. He was good to me GB. I remember days when he would have a sandwich and he would always share it with me. I am sad to think his son is gone too. How did you find a picture ?
I bet he wore his dad's S&W Airweight. It was a trademark. I can see Cleon now, wearing that gun in a belt holster on his right side. Fond memories of long ago! Cleon did things the way they did them in the mountains, wrong, yes but I find it hard to call him a coward. He did some things that took courage. Let's let them rest in peace. They are all gone!

 

[greybeard]

Name search--obits for that county.

 

[inyati13]

Name search--obits for that county.

GB, I still cannot find it. It is asking for a membership!

I don't think Cleon's son was addressed by his first name, his friends called him Wes as I remember. Wes was reserved. I don't think he ever got married. I went back to Hazard to visit Cleon before 1980 when I left for 33 years and never saw Cleon again. His son was still single and Cleon was old and feeble. Cleon smoked and he looked like a smoker. It is interesting and I knew this before you located that picture. Cleon took care of his son and continued to take care of him until Cleon died. He got hiim his first job as a policeman with the City. Then he got him on with the L&N as a brakeman and he worked up to Engineer. Later when Wes retired from the Railroad, he like Cleon, went back to City employment as a water plant operator. That is how I first met Cleon. I was the Regional Spoil and Water Lab director which provided support to inspectors for the KY Division Of Reclamation. Several ex-cops became inspectors. The point is that Cleon took care of his own. If you were in his circle, you had his protection. I will post a story of how he got me out of a bad situation.

 

[greybeard]

http://www.meaningfulfunerals.net/fh/ob ... h_id=11513

The obituary of C.W. Begley

Officiating Ministers: Rev. Pete McGee and Rev. Billy Joe Lewis

Mr. C.W. Begley born November 18, 1941 departed this life on September 24, 2008 at the Hazard Appalachian Regional Medical Ctr. He was 66 years old. C.W. was born at Confluence(Hell-For-Certain),Kentucky the son of the late Cleon C. Begley and the late Rixie Pratt Begley. By occupation he was a retired Railroad Engineer, former Hazard City Policeman & firefighter. He was a retired U.S. Army & Air Force Veteran of the Vietnam War. C.W. was a member of the Hazard Masonic Lodge, 32nd degree mason, shriner - member of Hillbilly Clan # 33 & 3, member of Scottish Rite, life member of the V.F.W. Post # 7387, V.F.W. Vice Commander District # 14, & member of Oleika Temple. C.W. was a member of the First Baptist Church, Bonnyman, Ky. C.W. enjoyed his V.F.W. & Shriner's activities - including riding his 18 wheel coal truck in parades, and especially being with his grandchildren. Mr. C. W. Begley was a life-long resident of Hazard, Ky. residing at 201 Begley Court at the time of his death. Mr. C.W. Begley was preceded in death by his parents: Cleon C. Begley & Rixie Pratt Begley. He leaves the following relatives surviving: Wife: Pauline Pennington Begley of Hazard, KY; One Son: Roger Dean Mullins and wife Billie of Busy, KY; Two Daughters: Tammy Greeley and husband Robert of Hazard, KY, Sarah Collins and husband Keith of Yeaddiss, KY; Nine Grandchildren: Tyler Dean Mullins, Charles Vincent Deaton, Keith Collins, Jr. Patrick Austin Deaton, Madison Collins, Trenton Collins, Olivia Rachel Mullins, Cody Bowling, Sierra Bowling; also survived by Three Special Children: Aaron, Tori, and Alex and also a host of other treasured relatives and friends.

Funeral services for Mr. C.W. Begley will be held at 2:00 p.m. -Sunday - September 28, 2008 at the Engle-Walker Funeral Home Chapel at 301 E. Main St. Hazard, KY with Rev. Pete McGee and Rev. Billy Joe Lewis officiating. Military Rites will be observed by the Hazard D.A.V. Chapter #64, burial will follow in the Hurricane Cemetery at Hyden, KY. Visitation will begin at 7:00 p.m. - Friday - September 26, 2008 at the Engle Walker Funeral Home. Masonic and Scottish Rites will be observed at 7:00 p.m. Saturday -September 27, 2008 at the funeral home. You may send your condolences at www.englewalkerfuneralhome.com

Print DirectionsPrint Obituary

Another site, which I won't link to or send to anyone, has his full SS#, birth and death date information.

 

[ifarm26]

Thanks for the positive comments. I am not saying what Cleon did was right, but I just wanted to throw a little real life in there. Some folks could take looking over there shoulder for the rest of their life, but I guess Cleon couldn't.
I've been in this profession for about 15 years now, and kick myself everyday for not taking the folks up on their offer of paying for vet school after the undergrad was done! I was through with school at that time, and wanted to get on with life. Hindsight is truly 20/20.
I still enjoy my line of work, but one surely does get tired of dealing with everyone else's problems day in and day out. Young drunks are sure a pain in the arse too!!