Don't dismiss those Pour On Parasiticides

[Bright Raven]

Ok, so now we have eliminated the cost difference, just got to decide the effectiveness difference.

Kenny. The Eprinex (eprinomectin) pour on is effective. The plasma 'molecule as available' levels have been documented. The problem reported in the studies are due to poor administration. Plus, there is a reported difference in quality between name brand and generic.

At the end of the day, use the method of administration that best fits your needs. Both methods of administration can result in effective parasite control.

 

[kenny thomas]

The generic I understand. Thats not Even an option.
I wish lucky_P woukd get in on this discussion

 

[Bright Raven]

The generic I understand. Thats not Even an option.
I wish lucky_P woukd get in on this discussion

Lots of threads where Lucky has consistently stated that generics whether they be pour on or injectable are not as effective. You can easily do a search but you already know his position on that. In regard to pour on versus injectable, I think he leans toward injectable.

 

[kenny thomas]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... xZcQ4Sssqu
Check out some of Lucky_P comments at this link.

 

[Bright Raven]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/injectable-vs-pour-on-wormers/&ved=2ahUKEwiUkKj7jZ3aAhXNt1MKHXi9BoQQFjABegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3dKZaA-CgxQDxZcQ4Sssqu
Check out some of Lucky_P comments at this link.

That is about what I remember his comments on here. Notice his emphasis on getting the proper dose on the cow. Dr. Steve Falk also made that point as did Brent Tolle.

Nevertheless, the FOI NADA studies conducted on Eprinex show that with PROPER administration, the lethal dose to kill the target parasites can be achieved. Personally, I feel comfortable with Eprinex. I doubt that I would use an Ivermectin pour on because of the lessor effectiveness of the active ingredient.

 

[Dempster]

The generic injectable ivermectin should not be completely dismissed. It does not reach the efficacy levels of brand name products, but is an economically justifiable choice in some instances, particularly for use on adult cows where large doses are needed and parasites levels are lower. If there was a metric that rated a products efficacy against its cost, I don't think anything would beat out generic injectable ivermectin. However, resistance concerns could be raised in some circumstances.

 

[Bright Raven]

The generic injectable ivermectin should not be completely dismissed. It does not reach the efficacy levels of brand name products, but is an economically justifiable choice in some instances, particularly for use on adult cows where large doses are needed and parasites levels are lower. If there was a metric that rated a products efficacy against its cost, I don't think anything would beat out generic injectable ivermectin. However, resistance concerns could be raised in some circumstances.

That is a lonely position to stand on. At least based on the history of discussions on Cattle Today. Ivermectin even in the name brand form is accountable for a large degree of the resistance in helminths. Not just because of its use in cattle but because it has been used as a topical anthelmintic in dogs and cats for 40 years. Pet owners are notorious for poor administration.

Having said that, it is a point worth considering. I think I would stick with the Ivomec Ivermectin injectable.

 

[Dempster]

There are huge numbers of cattle dewormed every year in situations that do not require consideration of possible resistance. I think in those cases, it doesnt matter what negative effects have been seen otherwise from using generic products. Additionally, I must admit, I have never considered the susceptibility profile of canine helminths when selecting a deworming protocol for my cow herd.

 

[Bright Raven]

There are huge numbers of cattle dewormed every year in situations that do not require consideration of possible resistance. I think in those cases, it doesnt matter what negative effects have been seen otherwise from using generic products. Additionally, I must admit, I have never considered the susceptibility profile of canine helminths when selecting a deworming protocol for my cow herd.

The point on canine helminth resistance is an extraneous comment. Just a data point that Ivermectin resistance is building.

Curious as to what situations do not require consideration of resistance. Organisms at the lower levels of the animal kingdom evolve faster as the generation cycles are shorter. As long as producers continue to expose helminths to levels of treatment that do not achieve a good kill, more helminth species are going to evolve resistance. When would you not consider resistance?

 

[dieselbeef]

so I just got in here but this is a totally preventative deal right. im asking is anyone actually testing their cows for worms..or flukes ..or any other type of parasite...

cuz ive been butchering my own animals for 20 yrs and have neve found a fluke or worm in any of them ever..and both myself and my butcher check them at that time....

so are we worming as a pm program..like a 7 way or blackleg? or just because everyone thinks they have worms and so they do it?

 

[Bright Raven]

so I just got in here but this is a totally preventative deal right. im asking is anyone actually testing their cows for worms..or flukes ..or any other type of parasite...

cuz ive been butchering my own animals for 20 yrs and have neve found a fluke or worm in any of them ever..and both myself and my butcher check them at that time....

so are we worming as a pm program..like a 7 way or blackleg? or just because everyone thinks they have worms and so they do it?

I suppose some may be worming as a preventative but most are treating. I have taken a couple fecal samples and they did show low levels of eggs.

 

[greybeard]

I always just assume mine to have worms, the level of the load being the subjective and influencing factor of when to de-worm..

 

[True Grit Farms]

so I just got in here but this is a totally preventative deal right. im asking is anyone actually testing their cows for worms..or flukes ..or any other type of parasite...

cuz ive been butchering my own animals for 20 yrs and have neve found a fluke or worm in any of them ever..and both myself and my butcher check them at that time....

so are we worming as a pm program..like a 7 way or blackleg? or just because everyone thinks they have worms and so they do it?

I suppose some may be worming as a preventative but most are treating. I have taken a couple fecal samples and they did show low levels of eggs.

I'm surprised you have worms, maybe if you used a white paste or Cydectin injectable your cattle would be worm free?
Supposedly not grazing your grass short prevents the cows from getting worms. And pasture rotation after worming plays a major roll also. Personally I can't see following a herd of cows around and waiting for a cow to poop, then scooping it up and recording who pooped and then having the poop checked for worms. To me its easier and more efficient to treat them all or just the one's that look like they need it.

 

[M-5]

its a fine line , Killing everything might help the animal but it hurts your soil.

As many have said before we should be concentrating on farming our grass and forage not just treating animals because some nitwit looks at a sample under a microscope and says you need it.

 

[Bright Raven]

its a fine line , Killing everything might help the animal but it hurts your soil.

As many have said before we should be concentrating on farming our grass and forage not just treating animals because some nitwit looks at a sample under a microscope and says you need it.

Darryl,

It has nothing that I can think of to do with the soil. I am only guessing you mean soil nematodes. They are unrelated to parasitic bovine helminths that live off the cows system. Most in the GI tract. Killing the intestinal nematodes has no effect on or loss of benefit to the soil.

If you mean something else, I am anxious to learn.

 

[Bright Raven]

so I just got in here but this is a totally preventative deal right. im asking is anyone actually testing their cows for worms..or flukes ..or any other type of parasite...

cuz ive been butchering my own animals for 20 yrs and have neve found a fluke or worm in any of them ever..and both myself and my butcher check them at that time....

so are we worming as a pm program..like a 7 way or blackleg? or just because everyone thinks they have worms and so they do it?

I suppose some may be worming as a preventative but most are treating. I have taken a couple fecal samples and they did show low levels of eggs.

I'm surprised you have worms, maybe if you used a white paste or Cydectin injectable your cattle would be worm free?
Supposedly not grazing your grass short prevents the cows from getting worms. And pasture rotation after worming plays a major roll also. Personally I can't see following a herd of cows around and waiting for a cow to poop, then scooping it up and recording who pooped and then having the poop checked for worms. To me its easier and more efficient to treat them all or just the one's that look like they need it.

I don't think it is possible to eliminate helminthic parasites in cattle. The first deer that crosses your farm, starts the cycle all over again.

BTW: all you do for fecal samples is get a spoon full from several cow 'pies'. Put it in a zip lock and take it to the vet. I don't label it to a specific cow.

The couple times I took fecal samples was when I was actually concerned about coccidiosis not worms.

 

[M-5]

its a fine line , Killing everything might help the animal but it hurts your soil.

As many have said before we should be concentrating on farming our grass and forage not just treating animals because some nitwit looks at a sample under a microscope and says you need it.

Darryl,

It has nothing that I can think of to do with the soil. I am only guessing you mean soil nematodes. They are unrelated to parasitic bovine helminths that live off the cows system. Most in the GI tract. Killing the intestinal nematodes has no effect on or loss of benefit to the soil.

If you mean something else, I am anxious to learn.

Surely you've done your reasearch on benefits of a healthy dung beetle population and how thier larve feed on the parasites you are killing.

 

[Bright Raven]

its a fine line , Killing everything might help the animal but it hurts your soil.

As many have said before we should be concentrating on farming our grass and forage not just treating animals because some nitwit looks at a sample under a microscope and says you need it.

Darryl,

It has nothing that I can think of to do with the soil. I am only guessing you mean soil nematodes. They are unrelated to parasitic bovine helminths that live off the cows system. Most in the GI tract. Killing the intestinal nematodes has no effect on or loss of benefit to the soil.

If you mean something else, I am anxious to learn.

Surely you've done your reasearch on benefits of a healthy dung beetle population and how thier larve feed on the parasites you are killing.

Yeah

 

[M-5]

Darryl,

It has nothing that I can think of to do with the soil. I am only guessing you mean soil nematodes. They are unrelated to parasitic bovine helminths that live off the cows system. Most in the GI tract. Killing the intestinal nematodes has no effect on or loss of benefit to the soil.

If you mean something else, I am anxious to learn.

Surely you've done your reasearch on benefits of a healthy dung beetle population and how thier larve feed on the parasites you are killing.

Yeah

Is that a yeah you have done reasearch or a yeah you don't believe good soil health has anything to do with it and a strategic balance between herd health and pasture health is needed to optimize potential on both fronts.


I guess a guy selling wormer would give a crap about killing beetles.

 

[Bright Raven]

Surely you've done your reasearch on benefits of a healthy dung beetle population and how thier larve feed on the parasites you are killing.

Yeah

Is that a yeah you have done reasearch or a yeah you don't believe good soil health has anything to do with it and a strategic balance between herd health and pasture health is needed to optimize potential on both fronts.


I guess a guy selling wormer would give a crap about killing beetles.

It is yeah, as in I read your post.