Don't dismiss those Pour On Parasiticides

[M-5]

I'm am serious . I know what I have seen by not mass worming. Surely I'm not an anomaly and enough science is available from agronomist to satisfy your skepticism , parasitologist are only one field and you can not blindly follow one without giving others a fair shake because everything works hand in hand . Would you trust your proctologist to do open heart surgery?

 

[Bright Raven]

I'm am serious . I know what I have seen by not mass worming. Surely I'm not an anomaly and enough science is available from agronomist to satisfy your skepticism , parasitologist are only one field and you can not blindly follow one without giving others a fair shake because everything works hand in hand . Would you trust your proctologist to do open heart surgery?

What have you seen? I see dung beetles over my entire farm and I do worm twice a year. There is no question that parasiticides affect most invertebrates but the levels must be miniscule. Nevertheless, I will open the subject with Dr. Falk. Be patient. He travels a lot. I also have some big projects this week and next. I got my wire from Luke on Friday. Hoping they start my fence if it ever stops raining.

 

[kenny thomas]

Another reason to use Cydentin, doesn't kill dung beetles

 

[Bright Raven]

Another reason to use Cydentin, doesn't kill dung beetles

Are you sure? Have you conducted a dung beetle population survey?

 

[kenny thomas]

Oh yes, every year. I have 3 different sized ones. The big one that some find near here I have not found though.

 

[Dempster]

Cydectin will affect dung beetles, just like the other avermectins, because they are, once again, passed in the manure. Cydectin is, however, less detrimental than other avermectins. I don't actually have a study at the ready to produce for every piece of knowledge I have, but if you pick up a bottle and read the label, I believe many of them have a dung beetle statement. Long Range's is something like "This product is excreted in the feces, similar to other avermectins. Product may affect pasture microorganisms" or something like that, I haven't read one in a while and don't have one in front of me.

 

[kenny thomas]

Cydectin will affect dung beetles, just like the other avermectins, because they are, once again, passed in the manure. Cydectin is, however, less detrimental than other avermectins. I don't actually have a study at the ready to produce for every piece of knowledge I have, but if you pick up a bottle and read the label, I believe many of them have a dung beetle statement. Long Range's is something like "This product is excreted in the feces, similar to other avermectins. Product may affect pasture microorganisms" or something like that, I haven't read one in a while and don't have one in front of me.

Ok, I stand corrected. Let me change my statement to being that I see more dung beetles since I swithched to Cydectin.

 

[kenny thomas]

Cydectin will affect dung beetles, just like the other avermectins, because they are, once again, passed in the manure. Cydectin is, however, less detrimental than other avermectins. I don't actually have a study at the ready to produce for every piece of knowledge I have, but if you pick up a bottle and read the label, I believe many of them have a dung beetle statement. Long Range's is something like "This product is excreted in the feces, similar to other avermectins. Product may affect pasture microorganisms" or something like that, I haven't read one in a while and don't have one in front of me.

Ok, I stand corrected. Let me change my statement to being that I see more dung beetles since I swithched to Cydectin.

I also have read some opinions that commercial fertilizers hurt the dung beetle also.

 

[Bright Raven]

Cydectin will affect dung beetles, just like the other avermectins, because they are, once again, passed in the manure. Cydectin is, however, less detrimental than other avermectins. I don't actually have a study at the ready to produce for every piece of knowledge I have, but if you pick up a bottle and read the label, I believe many of them have a dung beetle statement. Long Range's is something like "This product is excreted in the feces, similar to other avermectins. Product may affect pasture microorganisms" or something like that, I haven't read one in a while and don't have one in front of me.

Thank you - a true Gentleperson and a Scholar.

From ERINEX a registered trademark of Merial, Inc. 1050-2355-07, Rev. 03-2015.

Studies indicate that when eprinomectin comes in contact with soil, it readily and tightly binds to the soil and becomes inactive over time. Free ivermectin/eprinomectin may adversely affect fish and certain aquatic organisms. Do not permit cattle to enter lakes, streams or ponds for at least 6 hours after treatment. Do not contaminate water by direct application or by the improper disposal of drug containers. Dispose of containers in an approved landfill or by incineration.

As with other avermectins, eprinomectin is excreted in the dung of treated animals and can inhibit the reproduction and growth of pest and beneficial insects that use dung as a source of food and for reproduction. The magnitude and duration of such effects are species and life-cycle specific. When used according to label directions, the product is not expected to have an adverse impact on populations of dung-dependent insects.

 

[M-5]

Cydectin will affect dung beetles, just like the other avermectins, because they are, once again, passed in the manure. Cydectin is, however, less detrimental than other avermectins. I don't actually have a study at the ready to produce for every piece of knowledge I have, but if you pick up a bottle and read the label, I believe many of them have a dung beetle statement. Long Range's is something like "This product is excreted in the feces, similar to other avermectins. Product may affect pasture microorganisms" or something like that, I haven't read one in a while and don't have one in front of me.

Thank you - a true Gentleperson and a Scholar.

From ERINEX a registered trademark of Merial, Inc. 1050-2355-07, Rev. 03-2015.

Studies indicate that when eprinomectin comes in contact with soil, it readily and tightly binds to the soil and becomes inactive over time. Free ivermectin/eprinomectin may adversely affect fish and certain aquatic organisms. Do not permit cattle to enter lakes, streams or ponds for at least 6 hours after treatment. Do not contaminate water by direct application or by the improper disposal of drug containers. Dispose of containers in an approved landfill or by incineration.

As with other avermectins, eprinomectin is excreted in the dung of treated animals and can inhibit the reproduction and growth of pest and beneficial insects that use dung as a source of food and for reproduction. The magnitude and duration of such effects are species and life-cycle specific. When used according to label directions, the product is not expected to have an adverse impact on populations of dung-dependent insects.

So Dempster validated what I said , but yet he is a gentleman and and a scholar . You just can't stand it if a person actually has some knowledge and learning from. Somewhere else besides the university.

 

[Bright Raven]

Cydectin will affect dung beetles, just like the other avermectins, because they are, once again, passed in the manure. Cydectin is, however, less detrimental than other avermectins. I don't actually have a study at the ready to produce for every piece of knowledge I have, but if you pick up a bottle and read the label, I believe many of them have a dung beetle statement. Long Range's is something like "This product is excreted in the feces, similar to other avermectins. Product may affect pasture microorganisms" or something like that, I haven't read one in a while and don't have one in front of me.

Thank you - a true Gentleperson and a Scholar.

From ERINEX a registered trademark of Merial, Inc. 1050-2355-07, Rev. 03-2015.

Studies indicate that when eprinomectin comes in contact with soil, it readily and tightly binds to the soil and becomes inactive over time. Free ivermectin/eprinomectin may adversely affect fish and certain aquatic organisms. Do not permit cattle to enter lakes, streams or ponds for at least 6 hours after treatment. Do not contaminate water by direct application or by the improper disposal of drug containers. Dispose of containers in an approved landfill or by incineration.

As with other avermectins, eprinomectin is excreted in the dung of treated animals and can inhibit the reproduction and growth of pest and beneficial insects that use dung as a source of food and for reproduction. The magnitude and duration of such effects are species and life-cycle specific. When used according to label directions, the product is not expected to have an adverse impact on populations of dung-dependent insects.

So Dempster validated what I said , but yet he is a gentleman and and a scholar . You just can't stand it if a person actually has some knowledge and learning from. Somewhere else besides the university.

I disagree with that Darryl. I said I was skeptical. No where did I discredit you. I have numerous acquaintances who have virtually no formal education who demonstrate vast knowledge of a wide range of disciplines.

Edited to add: I remain skeptical that avermectins have any significant affect on invertebrate populations outside the body of the cow. Read that last statement on the Merial publication.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Quit feeding trolls their idiots.

 

[Bright Raven]

Quit feeding trolls their idiots.

I try not to but you are a very determined guy.

 

[TexasBred]

Quit feeding trolls their idiots.

I try not to but you are a very determined guy.

Amazing that some get their drawers in a knot just because a fella shows some semblance of intelligence and continues to seek answers to new questions that might come up. You gonna have to quit researching Ron.

 

[Bright Raven]

Quit feeding trolls their idiots.

I try not to but you are a very determined guy.

Amazing that some get their drawers in a knot just because a fella shows some semblance of intelligence and continues to seek answers to new questions that might come up. You gonna have to quit researching Ron.

Thanks for that observation.

I don't take Grit serious. In regard to M-5, I think he is just messing with me on the dung debate. Dung does that.

 

[kenny thomas]

So out of 11 pages have we proved the efficiency between pour on and injectable or if one brand is safer on dung than another? I'm not sure I'm convinced.

 

[Caustic Burno]

So out of 11 pages have we proved the efficiency between pour on and injectable or if one brand is safer on dung than another? I'm not sure I'm convinced.

No but a lot of cows have been wormed we think.

 

[Bright Raven]

So out of 11 pages have we proved the efficiency between pour on and injectable or if one brand is safer on dung than another? I'm not sure I'm convinced.

Kenny,

You will not find any 'proof'. You will get a lot of opinions. There is only one 'proof'. Both pour on and injectable meet the FDA FOI NADA requirements established by the FDA for the drugs to be approved for use.

Whether you hear it from veterinarians, toxicologist, pharmaceutical representatives, or parasitologist, etc. They all have their opinions and preferences. If you are looking for the 11th Commandment that sanctifies one over the other, it does not exist.

It all comes down to preference and opinion. Take consolation in the FACT that both meet the FDA efficacy requirements.

Regarding the dung debate - that is a lot about dung. This nation uses enough insecticide to make the limited effect of parasiticides on dung beetles an insignificant issue IMO.

PS: The point of this thread is captured in the title - DON'T DISMISS POUR ON PARASITICIDES. They give good results IF , IF ,IF they are applied properly and at the correct dose.

 

[Putangitangi]

Do any of you ever do post-drench FECs? We do that from time to time to check how resistant our worm populations may have become to the drench we're using. Do a FEC, drench, then pick up dung samples ten days after drenching; if there are eggs there, your drench didn't work. Culture the eggs found to identify the species, if required.

Our Ag organisations have done a lot of work on educating farmers that the majority of the worm problem is on the pasture and you'll never eliminate them by treating the cattle. You just manage the production losses/health effects by how well you manage the animals, the pasture, how much you can feed them, etc. There are probably places where it gets cold enough to wipe them out there, not so many here and certainly never where I farm.

 

[Bright Raven]

Do any of you ever do post-drench FECs? We do that from time to time to check how resistant our worm populations may have become to the drench we're using. Do a FEC, drench, then pick up dung samples ten days after drenching; if there are eggs there, your drench didn't work. Culture the eggs found to identify the species, if required.

Our Ag organisations have done a lot of work on educating farmers that the majority of the worm problem is on the pasture and you'll never eliminate them by treating the cattle. You just manage the production losses/health effects by how well you manage the animals, the pasture, how much you can feed them, etc. There are probably places where it gets cold enough to wipe them out there, not so many here and certainly never where I farm.

I am thinking about doing some fecal egg counts as a curiosity. As far as the life cycle of parasitic helminths, the deer population keeps some species going. Also, I have a neighbor with cattle upgradient of my farm. His egg load is certainly shared with me.