Don't dismiss those Pour On Parasiticides

[sstterry]

Two wormers at a time speed resistance to the products. It does not matter if you kill 92% or 98%, the 8% and the 2% will become super worms and then what? Give them all a chew of tobacco?

Every winter, dad would put tobacco leaves and chunks of coal in our draft horse's feed box. He said it was for worms!

So that is where my parents got all the coal for my Christmas Stocking ......

 

[Lucky]

How does long hair on spring cattle effect the ability for it to soak in? Does rain lower the effects of it? I used some on yearlings last week and an hour later it came a good rain for about 15 minutes then stopped.
First year I used Long Range it worked great second year I couldn't tell a difference. It's too high to use on cows. I may try it again on yearlings not sure yet. If you're cows are really easy to pen and worm why not just use something cheap 3-4 times a year? Anyone on here do a fecal test? I know one guy that does and ends up using cheapest wormer he can find. He is a Big operator though.

 

[sstterry]

Ivomec injectable in the spring and safe guard cubes or Ivomec pour on in the fall alternating years. Injection first week of spring,fall worming Labor Day weekend.

With the "Safe Guard" cubes, how can you tell they are getting the appropriate dose?

 

[Bright Raven]

How does long hair on spring cattle effect the ability for it to soak in? Does rain lower the effects of it? I used some on yearlings last week and an hour later it came a good rain for about 15 minutes then stopped.
First year I used Long Range it worked great second year I couldn't tell a difference. It's too high to use on cows. I may try it again on yearlings not sure yet. If you're cows are really easy to pen and worm why not just use something cheap 3-4 times a year? Anyone on here do a fecal test? I know one guy that does and ends up using cheapest wormer he can find. He is a Big operator though.

The long hair in spring is not considered a problem unless it is matted with lots of debris. It is important to get it on top the back along the midline. It will follow the hair shafts down into the follicles.

Rain is a problem. Should be dry the day you administer the pour on.

The problem using 'something cheap' (generic parasiticides) is a function of RESISTANCE not economics. The generic pour ons while they may control parasites with several applications, the parasites that survive evolve a resistance.

 

[M-5]

Ivomec injectable in the spring and safe guard cubes or Ivomec pour on in the fall alternating years. Injection first week of spring,fall worming Labor Day weekend.

With the "Safe Guard" cubes, how can you tell they are getting the appropriate dose?

You don't know for sure but you put out enough to get real close.

 

[kenny thomas]

Even though I'm not a believer in pour on the biggest issue I see when I see it used is improper use. Instructions say along the top line from shoulders to withers, not from one side across the back with some going on the ground.

 

[Bright Raven]

Even though I'm not a believer in pour on the biggest issue I see when I see it used is improper use. Instructions say along the top line from shoulders to withers, not from one side across the back with some going on the ground.

Improper application is the primary reason pour on gives poor results. BTW: I will call Brent or Dr. Falk tomorrow about their comments on cydectin and post it.

 

[kenny thomas]

Thanks,

 

[Double R Ranch]

We run fecals on our cattle when we do the goats, sheep and horses. Fresh samples randomly from the herd. We deworm the entire herd according to what is found. If fecals come back clean which they have for a while now we won't do anything.
Having said that they do get pour on for lice when needed.

 

[TexasBred]

Well, ask him about the Cydentin. They make it also.

Ok. You are correct. They make a bunch.

Check me but I believe Bayer makes Cydectin.

 

[Bright Raven]

Well, ask him about the Cydentin. They make it also.

Ok. You are correct. They make a bunch.

Check me but I believe Bayer makes Cydectin.

TB. You are correct. But there is background on this. Merial owned the rights to Cydectin - BTW: Brent told me Merck actually invented it - Merial gave up the rights in a Consent Order to settle court action pursuant to anticompetitive litigation. As a result, currently Bayer holds the rights to Cydectin. But there are still boxes out there with Merial on the side.

The Federal Trade Commission ("Commission") has accepted, subject to final approval,
an Agreement Containing Consent Orders ("Consent Agreement") from C.H. Boehringer Sohn
AG & Co. KG ("Boehringer Ingelheim"), which is designed to remedy the anticompetitive
effects of Boehringer Ingelheim's acquisition of the Merial Animal Health business ("Merial")
from Sanofi. Under the terms of the proposed Decision and Order ("Order") contained in the
Consent Agreement, Boehringer Ingelheim is required to divest its relevant U.S. companion
animal vaccine business to Eli Lily and Company, which participates in the animal health
industry through its Elanco Animal Health ("Elanco") division. Boehringer Ingelheim is also
required to divest its U.S. Cydectin parasiticide product to Bayer AG ("Bayer").

 

[kenny thomas]

Ok. You are correct. They make a bunch.

Check me but I believe Bayer makes Cydectin.

TB. You are correct. But there is background on this. Merial owned the rights to Cydectin - BTW: Brent told me Merck actually invented it - Merial gave up the rights in a Consent Order to settle court action pursuant to anticompetitive litigation. As a result, currently Bayer holds the rights to Cydectin. But there are still boxes out there with Merial on the side.

The Federal Trade Commission ("Commission") has accepted, subject to final approval,
an Agreement Containing Consent Orders ("Consent Agreement") from C.H. Boehringer Sohn
AG & Co. KG ("Boehringer Ingelheim"), which is designed to remedy the anticompetitive
effects of Boehringer Ingelheim's acquisition of the Merial Animal Health business ("Merial")
from Sanofi. Under the terms of the proposed Decision and Order ("Order") contained in the
Consent Agreement, Boehringer Ingelheim is required to divest its relevant U.S. companion
animal vaccine business to Eli Lily and Company, which participates in the animal health
industry through its Elanco Animal Health ("Elanco") division. Boehringer Ingelheim is also
required to divest its U.S. Cydectin parasiticide product to Bayer AG ("Bayer").

I didn't realize this. When did this happen. I have an almost empty 500ml bottle and it says Merial. The date is still good till August I think. Gonna buy another tomorrow so I will see.

 

[Bright Raven]

Check me but I believe Bayer makes Cydectin.

TB. You are correct. But there is background on this. Merial owned the rights to Cydectin - BTW: Brent told me Merck actually invented it - Merial gave up the rights in a Consent Order to settle court action pursuant to anticompetitive litigation. As a result, currently Bayer holds the rights to Cydectin. But there are still boxes out there with Merial on the side.

The Federal Trade Commission ("Commission") has accepted, subject to final approval,
an Agreement Containing Consent Orders ("Consent Agreement") from C.H. Boehringer Sohn
AG & Co. KG ("Boehringer Ingelheim"), which is designed to remedy the anticompetitive
effects of Boehringer Ingelheim's acquisition of the Merial Animal Health business ("Merial")
from Sanofi. Under the terms of the proposed Decision and Order ("Order") contained in the
Consent Agreement, Boehringer Ingelheim is required to divest its relevant U.S. companion
animal vaccine business to Eli Lily and Company, which participates in the animal health
industry through its Elanco Animal Health ("Elanco") division. Boehringer Ingelheim is also
required to divest its U.S. Cydectin parasiticide product to Bayer AG ("Bayer").

I didn't realize this. When did this happen. I have an almost empty 500ml bottle and it says Merial. The date is still good till August I think. Gonna buy another tomorrow so I will see.

Kenny.

It is strange. I still see Merial on boxes in the feed stores!!!

 

[Ebenezer]

The problem using 'something cheap' (generic parasiticides) is a function of RESISTANCE not economics. The generic pour ons while they may control parasites with several applications, the parasites that survive evolve a resistance.

Same problem for any and every worming product: future resistance. Just a matter of what % survives each application. The only real long term cure for parasites is increased animal resistance if that is possible. I do not see that happening with flukes but normal stomach worms is doable now in some breeds and species.

 

[TexasBred]

The problem using 'something cheap' (generic parasiticides) is a function of RESISTANCE not economics. The generic pour ons while they may control parasites with several applications, the parasites that survive evolve a resistance.

Same problem for any and every worming product: future resistance. Just a matter of what % survives each application. The only real long term cure for parasites is increased animal resistance if that is possible. I do not see that happening with flukes but normal stomach worms is doable now in some breeds and species.

Pure speculation.

 

[Bright Raven]

Thanks,

Cydectin is currently owned by Bayer. So keep in mind that Bayer is a competitor of Boehringer Ingelheim (BI). Brent works for BI.

BTW: the product is currently listed on valley vet with the following picture (note BI):

Merck developed it but the rights have been owned by Merial (BI), Zoetis and a couple other drug companies. BI let it go in the settlement because they had Eprinomectin which Brent said is a superior parasiticide.

Brent said one of the draw backs to Cydectin which uses moxidectin at the rate of 5 mg/mL - is that it is lipophilic. It binds to fat tissue. The good news is that it can hang around in the cow's system longer. The bad news is that it is unavailable to kill parasites when it is bound up in fat. Brent said if you use it - use it at a higher dose so that the molecules are not all bound in the fat tissue.

 

[Bright Raven]

A couple of points worth a word coming out of my conversation with Brent Tolle:

We talked about resistance. It is a problem. Why? Because drug companies are not spending a lot to produce new drugs. He said the strategy of drug companies is to let private research find the next great drug and then have a bidding war to see who gets it.

Furthermore, he said the current emphasis is on finding better ways to administer parasiticides. Long Range is a BI product. It combines an old active ingredient (eprinomectin) with the best carrier in the industry. That is why it hangs around in the system longer that Epinex but both use the same active ingredient - eprinomectin.

Brent said the future of parasiticides will be implants where the drug is time released.

I think the main point is that resistance is a serious concern. The economics don't support the new research of parasiticides like it did in the 1990s when all these drugs were developed. Yes, these drugs are OLD.

 

[True Grit Farms]

It's becoming clear now, use a independent study if there's such a thing anymore.

 

[kenny thomas]

So were still not sure about the pour on vs the injectable?

 

[Bright Raven]

So were still not sure about the pour on vs the injectable?

They both have merit. If properly administered, pour ons can achieve satisfactory levels of the active ingredient in the plasma. The concern with pour on is that producers don't apply them according to instructions.

Injectable has the advantage of reducing the mistakes of administration but even with injectables, underestimating body weight will result in poor worm kill.