Does more pounds per acre make up for being docked at the sale barn for small frame size?

[Dave]

We've got a few guys that sell hay by the ton but it's very few.

Pretty easy what it works out to by the ton. Weigh your rig with an empty trailer. Get a few bales by the bale from a seller. Run it back over the scale with the bales on the trailer. What did they weigh? Is it worth it by the ton?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Warren - I have no idea why they put a minus sign in front of the numbers. Yes, that number is ADDED to the adjustment.
Dave - not very many places to run a trailer over a scale around some parts. Like out here, not all towns have a feed mill. A lot of feed "stores" are just that, a store. They buy & sell bag feed, not bulk - so no scales.
Remember, this adjusted 205 day weight is for you to COMPARE the performance of your cows/sires.

 

[simme]

To understand how much the actual birth weight affects the 205 day adjusted weaning weight calculation, two examples.
Calf with 100# birth weight, 600 pound weight at 6 months old, 205 day adjusted weaning weight per equation is 666 pounds.
Calf with 50# birth weight, same 600 pound weight at 6 months, adjusted weaning weight is 673 pounds. Only a 7# difference in adjusted weaning weight for a 50# difference in birth weight.
Notice that does not imply that a 50# bw calf will weigh more at weaning than a 100# bw calf. The calf that goes from 50# to 600# in the same time period is gaining more per day than the calf that starts out at 100# but ends up at the same 600 pound weight at 6 months. The lower gaining one is projected to gain less in the remaining 25 days when both will be 205 days old.

Conclusion - don't get out the bw scale if you are ONLY doing that to be able to adjust weaning weights. Most people can guess at a birth weight within 15 pounds with just a glance. If you are tracking birth weights or selling bulls with published birth weights, then use the scales.

 

[Travlr]

Dave - not very many places to run a trailer over a scale around some parts. Like out here, not all towns have a feed mill. A lot of feed "stores" are just that, a store. They buy & sell bag feed, not bulk - so no scales.

I've used scales at mines, trucking companies, and there's an irrigation equipment place close by that has scales. And you're right, it's kind of amazing that feed stores don't always have scales. But if they sell bulk fertilizer they can probably tell you where they weigh their spreaders, full and empty.

 

[Warren Allison]

Warren - I have no idea why they put a minus sign in front of the numbers. Yes, that number is ADDED to the adjustment.
Dave - not very many places to run a trailer over a scale around some parts. Like out here, not all towns have a feed mill. A lot of feed "stores" are just that, a store. They buy & sell bag feed, not bulk - so no scales.
Remember, this adjusted 205 day weight is for you to COMPARE the performance of your cows/sires.

Truck stops are another place with scales you might could use

 

[Silver]

I always weigh at the DOT scales when they are closed.

 

[Nesikep]

I always weigh at the DOT scales when they are closed.

key word.. when they're CLOSED

 

[wbvs58]

I've used scales at mines, trucking companies, and there's an irrigation equipment place close by that has scales. And you're right, it's kind of amazing that feed stores don't always have scales. But if they sell bulk fertilizer they can probably tell you where they weigh their spreaders, full and empty.

Our refuse stations all have scales these days.

Ken

 

[Travlr]

Our refuse stations all have scales these days.

Ken

Oh year... and the local recycler...

 

[kenny thomas]

I challenge each of you to somehow weigh a couple rolls of your hay. Bet you are disappointed. I was very surprised

 

[Allenw]

Buy hay by ton and it doesn't matter what size the bales are. In this part of the world we sell calves and buy hay by weight.

Most of these jokers around here won't scale bales, I've sold hay across the scale, never came out to far off from what I said they weighed.

 

[Silver]

I challenge each of you to somehow weigh a couple rolls of your hay. Bet you are disappointed. I was very surprised

I have a few of my bales weighed every year by crop insurance. I broke their scale with my greenfeed. 2,390 lbs on a 68" bale. I backed my bale size down after that. All my bales were heavier than I expected with this baler.

 

[kenny thomas]

I have a few of my bales weighed every year by crop insurance. I broke their scale with my greenfeed. 2,390 lbs on a 68" bale. I backed my bale size down after that. All my bales were heavier than I expected with this baler.

That's great. Many here will weigh 700 to 800 and if they are selling them maybe 400.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I have scales under the squeeze chute for weighing critters, and a platform scale for weighing bales, two of the best investments I've made. I weigh a random sample of bales every year to get an average that I use for my number crunching as well as selling. If a buyer questions me I toss a few of their choosing on the scale to get an average.

I wish there was an easily available truck scale close to weight full loads. But the dump only does that M-F 10-2, which isn't always possible. Next closest scale is 80 miles away.

 

[u4411clb]

Hay sales also depend on the area. In my area 4x5 is the standard and even those who have balers that can make bigger bales will set to 4x5 for those they sell and bigger for what they keep. While the next man is trying to explain how much more hay he is giving you for your money I will be selling bales. He can fight the demand and the market all he or she wants and they may be right but being right doesn't mean making money.

And the people that want 4x5's are not dumb or slow many here don't have the trailers or tractors to handle the bigger bales. Or the big thing now is to roll out the hay and grandma and grandpa can man handle the 4x5's allot easier. And if they have a few animals the longer that bale sits out in the weather from the barn to be eaten the more waste. So it is giving people what they want not trying to convince them what they need, if that is the case we all should be using the big squares like we had in Colorado to be honest.

PS Back to the cows, we are the only group that discusses pounds per this or acres per that and not PROFIT. As long as the packers and stores have you thinking like that they win.

 

[wbvs58]

I have set of digital scales with a hook on it and shackle the other side to attach to my loader then a strap around the bale and onto the hook, just lift it off the ground. They only cost about $200 and will weigh up to 1 ton.

Ken

 

[Warren Allison]

Big or small I want the calves that make me the most money. People try lots of things but it's hard to beat a good 800# Angus or Charolais calf at the sale barn. Small calves bring small money.

Calling it pounds per acre instead of head per acre doesn't change the fact that you are running X amount of head on X amount of acres to me.

This whole deal reminds me of buying round hay. One guy will buy 4x5 bale for $35 and think the guy that paid $45 for a 5x6 bale got shafted. I mean after all you gotta know more 4x5 bales fit in a 100x100 barn than 5x6 bales.

That is a very good analogy.

 

[Warren Allison]

To understand how much the actual birth weight affects the 205 day adjusted weaning weight calculation, two examples.
Calf with 100# birth weight, 600 pound weight at 6 months old, 205 day adjusted weaning weight per equation is 666 pounds.
Calf with 50# birth weight, same 600 pound weight at 6 months, adjusted weaning weight is 673 pounds. Only a 7# difference in adjusted weaning weight for a 50# difference in birth weight.
Notice that does not imply that a 50# bw calf will weigh more at weaning than a 100# bw calf. The calf that goes from 50# to 600# in the same time period is gaining more per day than the calf that starts out at 100# but ends up at the same 600 pound weight at 6 months. The lower gaining one is projected to gain less in the remaining 25 days when both will be 205 days old.

Conclusion - don't get out the bw scale if you are ONLY doing that to be able to adjust weaning weights. Most people can guess at a birth weight within 15 pounds with just a glance. If you are tracking birth weights or selling bulls with published birth weights, then use the scales.

Question? On a bull's EPDs, are the bw, ww, etc, only recorded for calves for registered cows of the same breed? I had mentioned earlier in this thread, that I am going to wean those 22 Plummer calves next year at exactly 205 days old for each one, and weigh them. Then I asked would that do me any good since I won't be able to weigh them the day they are born. I see in your post above that it would be of value to me, in comparing how each individual cow did, just knowing what the calves weighed in 205 days. or if I weaned each one at exactly 180 days, etc. But, if I did weigh at birth, and at 205 days, ..calculated the adjusted ww, etc. would there be any need in sharing the data with the owner of the registered Chi-Angus bull?: Can he use date from commercial cows for his bull's EPDs? Or the guy that has the regsitered Black Simm cows that he breeds to registered Chi-Angus bulls, and registered Chi-Angus cows he breeds to registered black Simm bulls: Would or could the data from these calves , be used in the EPDs for those bulls?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The Simmental breeder could use the data. I think we are the only breed that will produce data on commercial calves. I believe the breeder has to be on the Total Herd Enrollment program. Just means you turn in data on all your cows and calves - not just the ones you register.

 

[Warren Allison]

The Simmental breeder could use the data. I think we are the only breed that will produce data on commercial calves. I believe the breeder has to be on the Total Herd Enrollment program. Just means you turn in data on all your cows and calves - not just the ones you register.

So, if you had say, a herd of Charolais or Brangus or something (and I don't guess it would matter if they were registered or commercial), and you bought some Simm semen to AI them with, who would you report the data to? The bull owner? The Simmental Association? Who has to be on the Total Herd Enrollment program? The cow owner, or the bull owner?