Does more pounds per acre make up for being docked at the sale barn for small frame size?

[chevytaHOE5674]

My "lazy black angus bull" has had 100% success the last 3 years with a 21-35 day calving window on 1100-1700lb cows.

Guess I better buy a lottery ticket as I beating all the odds. Lol.

 

[Warren Allison]

My "lazy black angus bull" has had 100% success the last 3 years with a 21-35 day calving window on 1100-1700lb cows.

Guess I better buy a lottery ticket as I beating all the odds. Lol.

How many cows?

 

[Ky hills]

My "lazy black angus bull" has had 100% success the last 3 years with a 21-35 day calving window on 1100-1700lb cows.

Guess I better buy a lottery ticket as I beating all the odds. Lol.

I've never known of a "lazy Angus bull"

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

How many cows?

That bull was only in with roughly 58 cows give or take a few each year.

My other bulls haven't been quite that good. But still very respectable.

 

[Warren Allison]

That bull was only in with roughly 58 cows give or take a few each year.

My other bulls haven't been quite that good. But still very respectable.

Bred 58 cows in 21 to 35 days?!!! Nothing lazy AT ALL about that young man. We kept 100-120 Corriente cows, and used 5 or 6 Angus or Brangus bulls when we bred them. 20 cows per bull. We wanted them to calve in February, We'd get them in that window, too, And the bulls were in anywhere from 5-6 weeks. But your bull is handling 3 times the cows that these did. I'd be raising me a son by him, if I was you. Is he a reg Angus? If so, what bloodlines?

 

[blackladies]

Some sim angus for sale close to me

SimAngus Bulls - farm & garden - by owner - sale - craigslist

$2500-3000 Hetherington Cattle Company has 18 SimAngus bulls available for a new set of ladies. These bulls are 18-30 months old. A few of these bulls are AI sired, and the rest are out of our AI...

springfield.craigslist.org

 

[Ebenezer]

So explain to me how this study says the exact opposite of what I said ?
I want cows that make me money in my situation. And the 1400 lb cows don't do that . And many in my area as well as research done by USU and CSU support that idea.
Size and fertility are linked . The larger the cow the later cycling and reduced fertility occur. Research done around the world supports this the plag1 was done in Australia I believe. One I posted was done in the intermountain west, one was done in Nebraska .similar studies done in Florida.
So stop letting your bias against me affect your judgment. Show me where I am wrong big boy! You can't and you won't .way easier to attack me personally then actually have to defend and debate your point of view!

I think that you mentioned Highlanders. Any research on them in the mainstream beef industry? Not around here.

 

[Ebenezer]

I've never known of a "lazy Angus bull"

I have.

 

[Ky hills]

I have.

Not saying it's not possible, just that I've never seen it. Pretty much any of the Angus bulls I've had were pretty active and virile.

 

[Dave]

Not saying it's not possible, just that I've never seen it. Pretty much any of the Angus bulls I've had were pretty active and virile.

I had one.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I think some people tend to lump breed into ever issue they have when the two are unrelated.

Like "lazy angus bull". Should just be "lazy bull" as lazy comes in all breeds. Over the years I've had and seen lazy bulls of all breeds and colors.

I also hear about "crazy angus" and "docile herefords" when I have large groups of the exact opposite of those stereotypes.

 

[Warren Allison]

I think some people tend to lump breed into ever issue they have when the two are unrelated.

Like "lazy angus bull". Should just be "lazy bull" as lazy comes in all breeds. Over the years I've had and seen lazy bulls of all breeds and colors.

I also hear about "crazy angus" and "docile herefords" when I have large groups of the exact opposite of those stereotypes.

Very well said. Some of the gentlest cattle I ever fooled with were Brahma, and you know their reputation. And I have seen Angus bulls that laid in the pond all day in the summer. Just their head and neck sticking out of the water, like a hippo. But once the sun went down, they would breed cows all night long. Didn't matter to me if they preferred night shift to day shift. as long as they got their work done.

 

[Ky hills]

I think some people tend to lump breed into ever issue they have when the two are unrelated.

Like "lazy angus bull". Should just be "lazy bull" as lazy comes in all breeds. Over the years I've had and seen lazy bulls of all breeds and colors.

I also hear about "crazy angus" and "docile herefords" when I have large groups of the exact opposite of those stereotypes.

I agree. There are a whole range of everything within each breed. Some do earn the stereotypes. I've had crazy Angus and docile Angus, docile Herefords and a few bordering on crazy Herefords too.
I've tried to always be extremely selective for disposition of bulls I've had more Angus bulls than anything else combined and with the exception of two the rest were easily managed.
Actually had a flighty Hereford bull that passed that along to sone of his calves.
The calmest most laid back bull I've had was a red Limousin, the only Limousin I've had and totally not the stereotypical wild and crazy.
I've had two Simmental bulls, one I misjudged when I bought him, I didn't see his aggressive side at first, we got rid of him due to an injury but it was a blessing in disguise because he was dangerous.
The current Simmental bull is very laid back and calm.

 

[Travlr]

I've had crazy Angus and docile Angus, docile Herefords and a few bordering on crazy Herefords too.
The calmest most laid back bull I've had was a red Limousin, the only Limousin I've had and totally not the stereotypical wild and crazy.
The current Simmental bull is very laid back and calm.

I think some people tend to lump breed into ever issue they have when the two are unrelated.
I also hear about "crazy angus" and "docile herefords" when I have large groups of the exact opposite of those stereotypes.

The worst temperament animals I've had were crossbreeds. A certain Angus/char comes to mind. And I don't know why it is, but Angus/Hereford brockle face calves are fine unless their facial markings are symmetrical and attractive. I've had some wild cattle with very pretty markings while the ones that looked like splattered paint are just as calm and gentle as can be.

 

[CowboyRam]

The old cow foreman for Warren Livestock was probably a bit bias against Black Angus. He was a Hereford man. Dad said when that ranch first started they had just about everything under the sun, and over the years had all Hereford. At one point I believe around the Great Depression they were in financial trouble, and General Pershing baled them out. He hand a mansion on the ranch with a polo field. By the time dad got there it had been abandoned and later was torn down. Dad has a chair that came out of it.

 

[Warren Allison]

The worst temperament animals I've had were crossbreeds. A certain Angus/char comes to mind. And I don't know why it is, but Angus/Hereford brockle face calves are fine unless their facial markings are symmetrical and attractive. I've had some wild cattle with very pretty markings while the ones that looked like splattered paint are just as calm and gentle as can be.

I am sure RMC will be along shortly with a genetic explanation for this, and will enlighten us all with his knowledge of the subject.

 

[Ky hills]

For what it's worth, I've had a few BWF crazies too, the worst cow I've had was a BWF I bought as a heifer. She was bought in a group of 500 weight heifers and she had gotten bred young before I bought her. So I kept her to calve out. she seemed a little flighty but it wasn't until after she had her first calf that she became full aggressive. She would then come after you whether she had a calf or not. I kept her around for a few years because I dreaded trying to load her and could usually work around her just being cautious of where she was and not getting to close. One day she came after me uphill from a longways off and that was the last straw she went down the road the next time she came up to the barn.
Also had another purchased BWF heifer that I sold in a bred heifer sale. Nothing out of the ordinary while I had her, but the folks that bought her wanted to bring her back for a refund. Apparently she snapped somewhere between the stockyards where the sale was and when they offloaded her, and I agreed to thecrefund. She was unglued at that time and I dreaded to try to load her too.
They told me later at the stockyards that after selling her she ran out the ring straight into a gate and broke her neck.
Wild cattle are something we don't want and we try to select for docility above pretty much everything else, because if they are so wild or crazy that you can't be around them then there's too much risk involved in my opinion for anybody to be around them.

 

[Rmc]

I think that you mentioned Highlanders. Any research on them in the mainstream beef industry? Not around here.

Couldn't tell you about any published research, you wouldn't read it anyway!
I can tell you about my first hand experience with raising a few cross bred cows for over 20 years . Most can't tell the difference including many of the so called experts on here. They maintain better condition than their herd mates . And when crossed with black bulls their calves are indistinguishable from their herd mates and sell for the same price.
Cows longevity was as long or longer than any of their herd mates.

 

[Tuesday Mack]

There is a local rancher I was talking to at the sale barn a few weeks ago and he said that they have had problems with those bigger cows not getting bred back. It sounded like he was speaking from experience.

Longer I do this, the more I find the wisdom in some of the reasons that some folks manage their herds the way they do. They may not understand the science and reasoning behind it, but they know what works in general more often than not. I sold a couple of big girls this fall for not breeding back last year and I'll be able to feed four for what those two put down their throats.

 

[CowboyRam]

Longer I do this, the more I find the wisdom in some of the reasons that some folks manage their herds the way they do. They may not understand the science and reasoning behind it, but they know what works in general more often than not. I sold a couple of big girls this fall for not breeding back last year and I'll be able to feed four for what those two put down their throats.

When I first started I kept cows that came open just because they were young cows. I no longer do that; if she is open she goes to the sale barn. I have a cow that came up open, and she will be going to the butcher come January. In a way it is kind of sad, she is a nice gentle cow; it seems those onery ones that you would like to see go always get bred up.