Do your cows eat GRASS??

[Brandonm2]

Question: What if the federal government, since it caused this problem through short sighted subsidies closed the border to imported cattle from anywhere to fix this problem. Then fed prices would move up enough to make $4.00 corn economically viable and the cost would be passed on to the consumer where it should be. I don't think that American cattlemen should allow ourselves to be left holding the bag as usual.

Fed cattle aren't what is driving the price of corn up. Shutting down imported live cattle or imported beef is not going to effect corn prices in the long term. In the short term it would help beef producers; BUT if packers can't get supply they will shut down plants and IF plants shut down then price will eventually come down as well. I think the longterm key needs to be raising cattle that don't spend as much time in the feedlot and I am not entirely certain about what is the best way too do that.

 

[KMacGinley]

Brandomn: I will go slower,,,,, If fat cattle prices went up to say, OH 2.00 per lbs. to match the 100%+ rise in corn prices, then people would be able to afford to feed corn to cattle. One way to accomplish this rise in meat prices would be to stop imports. I never said that imported cattle had anything to do with the corn price increase :lol: I said that the government created this problem and this would be a way to fix it.

As for the price getting Too High, I think that $40,000 is too much for a Truck, but that is the price isn't it. With inflation, corn should be at $10.00 a bushel and beef should be at 20.00 a lb or more. It is time for ag to stop being the poor stepchild.

 

[mnmtranching]

Question: What if the federal government, since it caused this problem through short sighted subsidies closed the border to imported cattle from anywhere to fix this problem. Then fed prices would move up enough to make $4.00 corn economically viable and the cost would be passed on to the consumer where it should be. I don't think that American cattlemen should allow ourselves to be left holding the bag as usual.

Foe sure! We would be in great shape if the US stopped beef imports. But you know, free trade only means free to sell to the USA. Just look at our trade deficit.

 

[Brandonm2]

Brandomn: I will go slower,,,,, If fat cattle prices went up to say, OH 2.00 per lbs. to match the 100%+ rise in corn prices, then people would be able to afford to feed corn to cattle. One way to accomplish this rise in meat prices would be to stop imports. I never said that imported cattle had anything to do with the corn price increase :lol: I said that the government created this problem and this would be a way to fix it.

As for the price getting Too High, I think that $40,000 is too much for a Truck, but that is the price isn't it. With inflation, corn should be at $10.00 a bushel and beef should be at 20.00 a lb or more. It is time for ag to stop being the poor stepchild.

This wonderful lifestyle that most of us in the developed world are enjoying is based on getting food really really cheap. If people paid {In terms of hours of wages} for food what they used to pay(and what many in the developing world still pay), there would be no Disneyworld, Super Bowl, home dvd players, $40g pickup trucks (I can still fill up my entire garage for $40g), lazyboy chairs, dog groomers, air conditioning, natural gas heat, movie stars, retirement, space shuttles, divorce, rvs, sports stars, vacations or record albums(sorry I forgot we don't have albums anymore I should say: downloads to Ipods). Take away cheap, plentiful food and the whole society collapses into hunger, violence, disease, and utter chaos. Fortunately for everyone there are enough of us fools out there in rural Alabama, Iowa, Texas, California, Wisconsin, Saskatchewan, Mexico, Australia, Brazil, New Zealand, Argentina, and parts unknown who will take whatever "the market" gives us that society keeps chugging along and the average American family can get fat as the old 1940s lard type pigs while spending less money on dinner (most of that going to restaurants, sodas, and snack foods)than they spend on entertainment.

USgov was the one that pushed everybody for free trade. They can't change their direction midstream. IN THEORY, I could grow some sheep and export the wool and mutton too New Zealand if I wanted to. I don't think it actually works that way; but Free Trade is a nice theory anyway. I still don't believe closing the boarder does anything for us LONG TERM.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

If the price of beef goes up due to the price of grain - so will all the other meat products.
In New Zealand, when you have company and want to impress them - you serve CHICKEN. Because the chicken industry needs grain to raise chicken, so chicken is costly. Sheep & beef can be raised on forage. (at least it was that way 20 years ago :shock: I might be outdated!)

 

[dun]

If the price of beef goes up due to the price of grain - so will all the other meat products.
In New Zealand, when you have company and want to impress them - you serve CHICKEN. Because the chicken industry needs grain to raise chicken, so chicken is costly. Sheep & beef can be raised on forage. (at least it was that way 20 years ago :shock: I might be outdated!)

Hope I never want to be impressed by anyone from NZ.

dun

 

[KNERSIE]

I must say that chicken needs to be really good to impress me more than beef or lamb!

 

[KMacGinley]

I agree with what you are saying Brandomn, but that does not make it right. Your analysis is right on the money. But our food is not cheap. We pay for it over and over again.

At the store
Higher Taxes
Higher energy costs
Higher environmental pollution
Factory farm animal abuse.

My point is only this. You cannot create a crisis in an industry by subsidizing another wing of that industry for an initiative that everyone knows will have no effect on the problem.

The bottom line is that what I am talking about is going to happen now anyway. Food a year from now is not going to be cheap. Tortillas are already going up in Mexico. hogs and chickens and turkeys are going to be a distant memory on most menus. Jeanne is right, beef could be the only game in town.

Americans are not going to have as much money to spend on consumer garbage. And the democrats for better or worse now control congress. They are not known as free traders.

 

[Brandonm2]

I agree with what you are saying Brandomn, but that does not make it right. Your analysis is right on the money. But our food is not cheap. We pay for it over and over again.

At the store
Higher Taxes
Higher energy costs
Higher environmental pollution
Factory farm animal abuse.

My point is only this. You cannot create a crisis in an industry by subsidizing another wing of that industry for an initiative that everyone knows will have no effect on the problem.

The bottom line is that what I am talking about is going to happen now anyway. Food a year from now is not going to be cheap. Tortillas are already going up in Mexico. hogs and chickens and turkeys are going to be a distant memory on most menus. Jeanne is right, beef could be the only game in town.

Americans are not going to have as much money to spend on consumer garbage. And the democrats for better or worse now control congress. They are not known as free traders.

Have you actually ever gone to the store???
(From the Winn Dixie sale page)
I can get 5 lbs of Idaho potatoes for 1.99 (boiled that would be ~15 servings or .13 cents a serving.
Pork chops are $1.48 a lb (~49 cents a serving).
I can get 4 12 packs of cokes for $12 (~24 cents a serving)
Plums, peaches, and apples from Chile are 99 cents a pound (~33 cents a serving).
A lb of smoked sausage is $2.5 (~60 cents a serving)
2 4lb bags of Florida oranges are only $5 (~31 cents a serving).
Bell Peppers are 99 cents a lb (~33 cents a serving).
I can get 10 boxes or rice a roni for $10 (~25 cents a serving).
Ground beef is only $1.48 a lb (~49 cents a serving).
USDA Choice Angus sirloin tip roast is only $2.99 a lb (~99 cents a serving).
A can of tomato paste is only .27 cents (7 cents a serving)
Go wild and crazy and get Choice filets wrapped in bacon (10 ounces) for only $4.99.
Whole chickens are selling for only $89 cents a lb (~45 cents a serving).
Catfish fillets are only $3.99 a lb ($1.33 a serving).
10 banquet tv dinners costs only $10.
Italian Bread is only $1.29 a loaf (~7 cents a serving)

The poorest dudes in this country are about to make $7.25 an hour.
Say the poor little dude takes home $5. In an 8 hour day, they have $40. If they eat a serving of sausage, oranges, and fried potatoes for breakfast. A Banquet TV dinner for lunch. A hamburger steak, some tomato sauce to go on that steak, some rice a roni, fried apples, and a piece of bread for dinner and he drank a coka cola classic with each meal.
(.60+.31+.13+.24) + ($1+.24) + (.49+.07+.25+.33+.07+.24)
=$1.28 at breakfast $1.24 at lunch and $1.45 at dinner
For a grand total of $3.97 slap on 10% in food tax (yes we in Alabama still pays sales tax on food) and his actual cost for food is only $4.37 and he could save 80 cents by drinking water out of the tap. His first 50 minutes of work paid for all the food that he needs for the day.

Ok. let us say that all hell breaks loose and the price of all food stuffs at the commodity farm level DOUBLES. Only about 25% of the grocery price is paid at the farm level so that little guy with the $4.37 a day grocery budget may see his food costs rise by $1 a day. He might not be able too afford it but most people would hardly notice it. Food costs versus wages in this country is almost irrelevant for most Americans that's why they can eat at restaurants or pay a premium for their favorite brands.

 

[George Monk]

KMac
I can't let you get away with saying that our lifestyle is giving us "higher environmental polution".
The United States is the most regulated and clean industrialized country in the world.
Look at the pollution by third world countries and China. What we do pales in their presence.

 

[Schnurrbart]

KMac
I can't let you get away with saying that our lifestyle is giving us "higher environmental polution".
The United States is the most regulated and clean industrialized country in the world.
Look at the pollution by third world countries and China. What we do pales in their presence.

But does that mean that we have to keep up with the Jones?

 

[KMacGinley]

You are right, big factory farms pollute nothing

Brandonm: Been to the store, thanks for making my point for me with your equations. Food is too cheap, people should have to pay a fair price for it. But that cheap price you are crowing about is only part of the bill. And a year from now, we will see what Pork, chicken and turkey cost. Have a nice day.

 

[mnmtranching]

The reason US is the worlds largest importer of beef is because Americans love beef. Ground beef is by far the number 1 food.
Not to mention how popular steak is.

We do not and can not raise enough beef for our own use. We are at capacity in overall beef production. There are areas that have a surplus in forage, but most parts of the country forage is always in short supply. [the limiting factor] That's why in many areas if it gets dry the government allows CRP grazing and haying. Still there's a shortage of forage and cow numbers are kept accordingly.

The US is down to about 600,000 head domestic slaughter per week through packers. Almost all fed cattle under 20 months have been on a high corn ration for at least 100 days.

Take away corn from the cattle industry, What will happen to US cattle numbers? There's not enough forage now.

I doupt if prices will go up that much. Why? imports. There is a lot of beef in the world. Take Brazil with the worlds largest Beef herd, lots of land, forage, corn, soybean they aren't anywhere near capacity. Right now Brazil processed beef is allowed in the US. 1 year free of foot and mouth and US will allow fresh and frozen beef from Brazil. And Argentina same thing.

The thing we have going is quality, we raise the best beef in the world. That's grain fed, and mostly corn fed. Take that away and our beef is no better than the stuff imported. We cannot compete, our cost of production, land values etc.

 

[Brandonm2]

You are right, big factory farms pollute nothing

Brandonm: Been to the store, thanks for making my point for me with your equations. Food is too cheap, people should have to pay a fair price for it. But that cheap price you are crowing about is only part of the bill. And a year from now, we will see what Pork, chicken and turkey cost. Have a nice day.

I still believe that they could double or TRIPLE the price the farmer receives for those products and MOST consumers would never really notice. The cost of the chicken in the individual can of chicken noodle soup for an example is almost miniscule.

 

[SEC]

Just remember, KMacginley, you also export to other countries which means you import to Canada, etc.

This is done because it's cheaper to bring in certain commodities than what you can grow it. Don't forget quality, not all products and health protocols are the same.

 

[KMacGinley]

SEC: I do not consider Canada to be on the list of countries that I would stop imports from. You are our brothers.

 

[dun]

SEC: I do not consider Canada to be on the list of countries that I would stop imports from. You are our brothers.

And the best and most reliable friend this country has.

dun

 

[mnmtranching]

I think opening the border to all Canadian beef is way past due.

 

[BAGTIC]

"With inflation, corn should be at $10.00 a bushel and beef should be at 20.00 a lb or more."

Beef's biggest concern should be pricing itself out of the market. $20.00 beef will cost producers the biggest part of their market. My lunch today was a 99 cent pork steak.

The reason for the US trade deficit is simple, OIL.
take oil out of the picture and the US has a positive trade balance.