KMacGinley
Well-known member
redangus":3hlp51td said:
Many, but I believe a lot of this land will come from bean acreage and CRP.
Do your cows eat GRASS??
- Thread starter DOC HARRIS
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Many, but I believe a lot of this land will come from bean acreage and CRP.
salemhigh
Well-known member
All of our cattle live on grass,No meal,No corn ,only hay as a supplement.And they perform very good ,just killed a 21 month old steer off rye, clover and has gained over 4 pounds per day since November dressed 761 lbs. Heifers calve as two year olds and have to wean a good calf or they are gone .
MoGal
Well-known member
I have read some articles online that say many of the soybean and HAY acreage will be converted to corn.
So that falls in line with doc's article that soybeans will rise also............. ALSO, HAY will increase as there will be a shortage of it.
In Texas, 96% of those in CRP, stayed in it... and the last article in Mid America Farmer/Grower seemed to think that most people would stay in CRP or at least 86% of it........
So that falls in line with doc's article that soybeans will rise also............. ALSO, HAY will increase as there will be a shortage of it.
In Texas, 96% of those in CRP, stayed in it... and the last article in Mid America Farmer/Grower seemed to think that most people would stay in CRP or at least 86% of it........
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
KMacGinley, turning grass into beef, and S.R.R - Thank you for your input!
Location - Location - Location! Real Estate salesmen and Business Managers stress these three words consistently - and they are correct. The management protocols which perform well in South Africa with Knersie obviously differ from those in Central Upstate New York where Jeanne - Simme Valley is operating. But Mac (KMacGinley) is, In My Opinion, absolutely correct regarding smaller brood cow frame size - and costly corn (grain) prices.
REGARDLESS of feed costs, a management decision to reduce the size, and thereby lower the maintenance costs, of our breeding females is mandatory for future success in our Beef Breeding Bu$ine$$.
By what means is the goal of optimal size of our brood cows accomplished? Through the use of GENETICS and SELECTION DECISIONS, plus the utilization of forage which is economical and functional! The feeding of the by-products of ethanol production capitalizes on one of those forages. To be viable in the beef business (or ANY business, for that matter), high production with low overhead expenses is mandatory. Beef cattle which will effeciently utilize inexpensive forage in whatever locale in the world in which they live are imperative for continuing profits to exist.
I concur with the thoughts of those of you who are thinking "Smaller Cows" is the way to go, and I hope that we get more input from Breeder's concerning some of the Breeds which are designed to do that very thing!
DOC HARRIS
Location - Location - Location! Real Estate salesmen and Business Managers stress these three words consistently - and they are correct. The management protocols which perform well in South Africa with Knersie obviously differ from those in Central Upstate New York where Jeanne - Simme Valley is operating. But Mac (KMacGinley) is, In My Opinion, absolutely correct regarding smaller brood cow frame size - and costly corn (grain) prices.
REGARDLESS of feed costs, a management decision to reduce the size, and thereby lower the maintenance costs, of our breeding females is mandatory for future success in our Beef Breeding Bu$ine$$.
By what means is the goal of optimal size of our brood cows accomplished? Through the use of GENETICS and SELECTION DECISIONS, plus the utilization of forage which is economical and functional! The feeding of the by-products of ethanol production capitalizes on one of those forages. To be viable in the beef business (or ANY business, for that matter), high production with low overhead expenses is mandatory. Beef cattle which will effeciently utilize inexpensive forage in whatever locale in the world in which they live are imperative for continuing profits to exist.
I concur with the thoughts of those of you who are thinking "Smaller Cows" is the way to go, and I hope that we get more input from Breeder's concerning some of the Breeds which are designed to do that very thing!
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
A report that I read this morning stated that there will be more acres planted to corn this year than ever before in history!redangus":3rulnm3v said:
DOC HARRIS
Doc,
Herefords were once the breed that made grass famous, lets hope they can reclaim that title.
I don't think its has much to do with which breed, but rather which types within the breed. For grass phenotype all of us can learn from OK jeanne's photos on her website.
Herefords were once the breed that made grass famous, lets hope they can reclaim that title.
I don't think its has much to do with which breed, but rather which types within the breed. For grass phenotype all of us can learn from OK jeanne's photos on her website.
Julian
Well-known member
Perhaps one thing we are missing is that with the use of corn for ethanol production the American farmer is basically placed in even more of a reactionary position to OPEC. What if the US has it's biggest corn crop ever in 2007 and OPEC dumps a lot of oil on the market to drop the price per barrel to $35.00? How cheap will all of that surplus corn have to sell for to make ethanol production profitable? How long will we have cheap corn then?
Maybe I am seeing it all wrong.
--Julian
Maybe I am seeing it all wrong.
--Julian
Hello, everyone --
Thanks for starting this interesting post, Doc.
Below is an article that ran this week on how the increase in corn prices is affecting the poor in Mexico.
One of things that hasn't been discussed so far is the moral and ethical implications of feeding corn to livestock in the future. Like it or not, public scrutiny of livestock grain usage is going to increase, and there will be more pressure brought to bear on cattle producers to move away from grain usage and grain dependence. We are already seeing this in Europe.
A few more headlines like this, and we could see "social justice" consumers demanding even more grass-fed products in the supermarket.
Best regards,
aubracusa
http://www.aubracusa.com
Mexican tortilla prices jump
14% increase in a year hits country's poor
January 14, 2007
BY PETER ORSI
MEXICO CITY -- Soaring international demand for corn has caused a spike in prices for Mexico's humble tortilla, hitting the poor and forcing President Felipe Calderon's business-friendly government into an uncomfortable confrontation with powerful monopolies.
Tortilla prices jumped nearly 14 percent in the last year, which Gov. Guillermo Ortiz of Mexico's Central Bank called ''unjustifiable'' in a country where inflation ran about 4 percent. Ortiz pinned the blame on companies monopolizing the market and blocking competition.
''We clearly have a problem of speculation,'' he said.
The government and economists also blame increased U.S. production of ethanol from corn as an alternative to oil.
''This is direct evidence of the way globalization is affecting all walks of life in Mexico and all over the world,'' said David Barkin, an economics professor at the Xochimilco campus of the Autonomous Metropolitan University in Mexico City.
On Friday, Economy Minister Eduardo Sojo said the government had authorized duty-free imports of 650,000 metric tons of corn to drive down tortilla prices. But he warned that any price relief would not be immediate, with the corn imports hitting the Mexican market in February.
Price manipulation alleged
Efrain Garcia, president of the National Confederation of Agricultural Corn Producers, said growers would not oppose the increased imports. "It's very clear to us, the producers, that [Mexico] needs a cheap tortilla,'' he said.
The federal government's antitrust watchdog said last week it was investigating allegations that companies were manipulating corn prices and making deals to limit the supply of corn to boost prices of tortillas.
Big retailers, mostly supermarkets, have kept tortilla prices steady around 55 cents a kilogram, but in Mexico City, some shops are selling them for 90 cents a kilogram, up from 73 cents.
For low-income Mexicans, who earn about $18 a day on average, the increasing prices have hit hard. According to the government, about half of the country's 107 million citizens live in poverty.
''When there isn't enough money to buy meat, you do without,'' Bonifacia Ysidro said as she wrapped an embroidered towel around a foot-high stack of tortillas to cart home. Tortillas, she added, ''you can't do without.''
Associated Press
###
Thanks for starting this interesting post, Doc.
Below is an article that ran this week on how the increase in corn prices is affecting the poor in Mexico.
One of things that hasn't been discussed so far is the moral and ethical implications of feeding corn to livestock in the future. Like it or not, public scrutiny of livestock grain usage is going to increase, and there will be more pressure brought to bear on cattle producers to move away from grain usage and grain dependence. We are already seeing this in Europe.
A few more headlines like this, and we could see "social justice" consumers demanding even more grass-fed products in the supermarket.
Best regards,
aubracusa
http://www.aubracusa.com
Mexican tortilla prices jump
14% increase in a year hits country's poor
January 14, 2007
BY PETER ORSI
MEXICO CITY -- Soaring international demand for corn has caused a spike in prices for Mexico's humble tortilla, hitting the poor and forcing President Felipe Calderon's business-friendly government into an uncomfortable confrontation with powerful monopolies.
Tortilla prices jumped nearly 14 percent in the last year, which Gov. Guillermo Ortiz of Mexico's Central Bank called ''unjustifiable'' in a country where inflation ran about 4 percent. Ortiz pinned the blame on companies monopolizing the market and blocking competition.
''We clearly have a problem of speculation,'' he said.
The government and economists also blame increased U.S. production of ethanol from corn as an alternative to oil.
''This is direct evidence of the way globalization is affecting all walks of life in Mexico and all over the world,'' said David Barkin, an economics professor at the Xochimilco campus of the Autonomous Metropolitan University in Mexico City.
On Friday, Economy Minister Eduardo Sojo said the government had authorized duty-free imports of 650,000 metric tons of corn to drive down tortilla prices. But he warned that any price relief would not be immediate, with the corn imports hitting the Mexican market in February.
Price manipulation alleged
Efrain Garcia, president of the National Confederation of Agricultural Corn Producers, said growers would not oppose the increased imports. "It's very clear to us, the producers, that [Mexico] needs a cheap tortilla,'' he said.
The federal government's antitrust watchdog said last week it was investigating allegations that companies were manipulating corn prices and making deals to limit the supply of corn to boost prices of tortillas.
Big retailers, mostly supermarkets, have kept tortilla prices steady around 55 cents a kilogram, but in Mexico City, some shops are selling them for 90 cents a kilogram, up from 73 cents.
For low-income Mexicans, who earn about $18 a day on average, the increasing prices have hit hard. According to the government, about half of the country's 107 million citizens live in poverty.
''When there isn't enough money to buy meat, you do without,'' Bonifacia Ysidro said as she wrapped an embroidered towel around a foot-high stack of tortillas to cart home. Tortillas, she added, ''you can't do without.''
Associated Press
###
Hi, Dun --
Yes, but like it or not, your business increasingly operates in the same international marketplace as the Europeans do. If the perception continues to be promoted by the media that we're using corn to power our SUVs and to raise fat cattle -- at the expense of malnourished children in developing countries -- who will have the competitive edge then?
Best,
Aubracusa
http://www.aubracusa.com
Yes, but like it or not, your business increasingly operates in the same international marketplace as the Europeans do. If the perception continues to be promoted by the media that we're using corn to power our SUVs and to raise fat cattle -- at the expense of malnourished children in developing countries -- who will have the competitive edge then?
Best,
Aubracusa
http://www.aubracusa.com
movin' on
Well-known member
I really enjoy your posts DOC HARRIS. I don't often weigh in on here, but about half the time that I do, it's to respond to your questions/comments. I believe God made cattle to eat grass. The rumen is very adaptable and is able to function on a wide variety of matter, but grass seems to be the matter of choice for the rumen. As a handful of responders on here said...if the cows can't calve, breed back, keep condition, on and on and on, in other words DO THEIR JOB on a low input operation, then they ought to be moved out of that operation. Any cow/bull can be pampered into looking and doing well, puredbred breeders do it all the time. The real test is what these animals can do in a low input situation. If grains do in fact stay this high for quite a while, those of us who eliminated grain from our operations many years ago will be even further ahead now!
beef
Well-known member
salemhigh":1xnx56dp said:
What was his average daily gain prior to November?
How about some financial breakdowns of each of your individual operations comparing feeding 100% grass (all year) compared to a grass/grain system.
The reason for my question.... If I was going to switch to a complete grass operation, I'd have to buy or rent more grass. As I quickly did some cowboy math, I came to the conclusion that corn would have to go way over $4 a bushel before I could afford to go the grass route.
I'd love to know what you find once you run the numbers. (If you already own the grass...than of course it'll work for you.)
The reason for my question.... If I was going to switch to a complete grass operation, I'd have to buy or rent more grass. As I quickly did some cowboy math, I came to the conclusion that corn would have to go way over $4 a bushel before I could afford to go the grass route.
I'd love to know what you find once you run the numbers. (If you already own the grass...than of course it'll work for you.)
salemhigh
Well-known member
WDA was 1.85 in Nov. at 19 months
SEC
Well-known member
Last year we started not feeding any grain to the cows as we had the hay and not a lot of feed grain, plus we buy what we use.
This year rather than buying grain or pellets we decided to put up some Triticale silage and hope that there is a little extra energy in that to help boost the cows during breeding in April as the grass isn't to the stage where we can turn out. We will turn cows out May 1st.
Not feeding grain is not a big deal and certainly makes like easier.
I have a few neighbours that have commented that they always start feeding grain at Christmas... Not sure it's neccesary as they will breed in June.
This year rather than buying grain or pellets we decided to put up some Triticale silage and hope that there is a little extra energy in that to help boost the cows during breeding in April as the grass isn't to the stage where we can turn out. We will turn cows out May 1st.
Not feeding grain is not a big deal and certainly makes like easier.
I have a few neighbours that have commented that they always start feeding grain at Christmas... Not sure it's neccesary as they will breed in June.
My Dad and Uncle taught me that raising cattle was ONLY profitable if you keep your expenses down. That equates to keeping them on grass as long as possible, and ONLY feeding grain in the lean times (tough winters) and even then, not much. I know some who feed year round, and keep liquid protein out year round, but I never have, and my cattle all look healthy, strong, and gain very well year in and year out.
KNERSIE":18ekufh0 said:
Here's two pictures of the same cow - the one with green
grass was in a very good season & she had a calf on
her. the one with dry grass was at the end of a not-so-
good grazing season and that's her new calf(we had moved
her from the spring group to the fall group).....I think
you can readily see the weight difference between
adequate rain and marginal rain----but the body shape
and hindquarter muscle is still evident in the photo
with the new calf.....we're going to flush her this spring.
thanks for the compliment Knersie. I think some Murray
Greys have been imported into South Africa. I wish we
could recruit a SA member for our Murray Grey
International Assoc!!
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Am I missing something? Are there REALLY that many beef herds, where the cows are being fed GRAIN - other than the hobby farmer with 5-10 head of cows? I don't care what the cost of corn is - grain is way too expensive to feed to cows. If anyone has cows that will not perform on grass and hay, they obviously have the wrong kind of cows for the environment they are in.
I couldn't feed my cows grain if I wanted to - first couldn't afford it, second have no way - physically - to do it.
Now, I do commit the mortal sin of feeding my replacements from weaning thru the winter. But, in a situation where you supplement your cattle about 6 months of the year, it sometimes is economical to supplement hay with grain - some years. For me, my heifers are exposed to the brutal "elements" of our winters and I'm "expected" to have them in good condition if I'm going to sell breeding/show stock.
Not that I need an excuse for how I handle heifers, just pointing out that in some situations, grain is economical if the price is there for your end product.
I couldn't feed my cows grain if I wanted to - first couldn't afford it, second have no way - physically - to do it.
Now, I do commit the mortal sin of feeding my replacements from weaning thru the winter. But, in a situation where you supplement your cattle about 6 months of the year, it sometimes is economical to supplement hay with grain - some years. For me, my heifers are exposed to the brutal "elements" of our winters and I'm "expected" to have them in good condition if I'm going to sell breeding/show stock.
Not that I need an excuse for how I handle heifers, just pointing out that in some situations, grain is economical if the price is there for your end product.
