Debating Bull Breeds

[Ky hills]

I believe under those circumstances, a good calving ease Angus bull is the best option for this go around. Getting those cows in good shape and getting a live calf on the ground is the main thing.
To me that is where an Angus excels, calving and forward calves.
Another year, if all goes well maybe then consider a calving ease Hereford. You have to careful especially with polled Herefords in that a lot of them are bred for the show ring and birth weight can be an issue, as well as being smaller framed.
I would not consider any continental breeds or crosses at all this first year, and would have to think long and hard about before bringing them in at all with what you have described.

 

[alacowman1]

id go with both,good Angus and Hereford …

 

[Warren Allison]

I don't disagree about using a horned Hereford bull. I said so above.

And it wasn't Warren who suggested Brangus.

I sure did!

 

[Brute 23]

Composites like Brangus or crosses like Black Herefords are not going to help a breed up program like you are wanting. They will throw another variable in a situation with quite a few as is.

You are going to want good bulls with breed history to then judge your cows off of.

If you had a really uniform, solid group of cows and wanted to put some polish on the calves with a white face or a tick of ear the argument could be made. In this situation though, it will likely hurt more than help.

 

[Travlr]

@pfaubush It will be good to hear from you. Many questions have come up about your cattle, your plans, and your property. A few answers might help us narrow down on the help we can offer.

 

[farmerjan]

We really do need to know at least the general area you are from as to availability of bulls and what sells in your area.
@Brute 23 has some very good points.

 

[Lucky K Cattle Co]

I would consider a Gelbvieh if you haven't.

 

[bird dog]

I'm with your neighbor. A limflex would be a good choice. He probably can tell you where to get a good one locally.

 

[faster horses]

#1. Thank you for caring.
#2. Do you have your cows on some type of supplemental feed now? That's the FIRST thing I would do. They have to live to get bred. What you showed us look like drastic forage conditions to me. And the cows show it.
#3. Keep it simple. Try a Black Angus bull and a Hereford bull if you want, but I'd stay with purebred bulls until you know what your cows throw. You could get into BW problems because BW is more highly heritable from the cow than the bull and you just don't know at this point the genetic makeup of your cows.

I'll ask like others have, where are you located?

 

[kenny thomas]

He hasn't been on here in a while, but mrvictordomino in Kentucky had some excellent looking Polled Herefords. He's a few hours away from me, but he is who I would call if I was in the market for a Polled Hereford.

He is expensive to visit. 2 years ago we went to look at 1 maybe 2 bulls and left with 8. Will definitely go back when we need more.

 

[coachg]

I don't disagree about using a horned Hereford bull. I said so above.

And it wasn't Warren who suggested Brangus.

Sorry Rafter , you and Warren both recommended brangus

 

[Travlr]

Did they pay for themselves? That's why you'll go back, right?

 

[kenny thomas]

Did they pay for themselves? That's why you'll go back, right?

We are happy. And the price was very comparable to anything else we could find.

 

[Travlr]

In September, I took over a ranch with nearly 100 commercial black cows. I've cut the herd by half because there was no hay to be found. I sold the worst of them (the last two running the place figured a cow is a cow is a cow). I'm still not impressed with what I have, but have no choice but to make them work.

There were two bulls that were junk. I sold both, and am now looking for my replacement. I really like the idea of a polled hereford, and what it would bring to my herd. I also really enjoy the baddies, and would like to eventually use them to replace my remaining herd.

The owner of the ranch prefers to have all black cattle. I've got him on board with the hereford, but just barely. So, here are my questions.

Would a black hereford bring the same attributes as the red? I've heard mixed reviews. Since I don't know what breeds/mixes cows are, is hereford really the direction to go? I have a neighbor suggesting limflex, too. I haven't had the chance to research that, yet.

I am in a position where lbw is extremely important, as I have some stunted cows that aren't much bigger than the year-old calves.
I'm attaching a couple pics of a few of my cows. These really only give a glimpse of what I'm working with.

This is what you are looking for. Length, muscle, color. He could be any of several breeds and/or have a white face. Angus, Sim, Limo, others, put a little ear on him and he could be brangus. Your choice if you want to investigate birth weights and see if he fits your criteria. Any cow (that's had two or more calves) worth keeping better be able to birth a hundred pound calf.

 

[Warren Allison]

In September, I took over a ranch with nearly 100 commercial black cows. I've cut the herd by half because there was no hay to be found. I sold the worst of them (the last two running the place figured a cow is a cow is a cow). I'm still not impressed with what I have, but have no choice but to make them work.

There were two bulls that were junk. I sold both, and am now looking for my replacement. I really like the idea of a polled hereford, and what it would bring to my herd. I also really enjoy the baddies, and would like to eventually use them to replace my remaining herd.

The owner of the ranch prefers to have all black cattle. I've got him on board with the hereford, but just barely. So, here are my questions.

Would a black hereford bring the same attributes as the red? I've heard mixed reviews. Since I don't know what breeds/mixes cows are, is hereford really the direction to go? I have a neighbor suggesting limflex, too. I haven't had the chance to research that, yet.

I am in a position where lbw is extremely important, as I have some stunted cows that aren't much bigger than the year-old calves.
I'm attaching a couple pics of a few of my cows. These really only give a glimpse of what I'm working with.

DUDE, everyone is asking. WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?

 

[Warren Allison]

#1. Thank you for caring.
#2. Do you have your cows on some type of supplemental feed now? That's the FIRST thing I would do. They have to live to get bred. What you showed us look like drastic forage conditions to me. And the cows show it.
#3. Keep it simple. Try a Black Angus bull and a Hereford bull if you want, but I'd stay with purebred bulls until you know what your cows throw. You could get into BW problems because BW is more highly heritable from the cow than the bull and you just don't know at this point the genetic makeup of your cows.

I'll ask like others have, where are you located?

If the pictures he/she posted are recent, then he isn't from the north or Canada. Dunno why people don't put their location down. Location needs to be a default that must be filled in in order to create a profile

 

[50/50Farms]

He's in Arkansas, y'all.

 

[pfaubush]

I'm in western Arkansas. I need to go fill out my profile, I suppose.

Those pics were taken almost 6 months ago. Just sort of an idea on what they were. I have had terrible luck finding good hay. The previous ranch manager walked out (without telling anyone) with one round bale in the barn and 92 cows, in a drought. I've since cut the herd by half, fed liquid feed with low quality hay, and have managed to add condition over the winter. It started out looking like a cattle internment camp.

My experience with cattle is having three cows at a time, and their calves. We did take sick heifers and cows with mastitis from the organic dairies when we lived in Oregon, and we've all spent time with our neighbor working his cattle. He is also my backup when I feel like I'm in over my head.

My knowledge of genetics ends with rabbits, but I'm researching what I can. I've not heard too many people excited over black herefords. I've had a few baldies, and really like them. They seem to do very well at auction, too. Brangus is definitely an easier to find option around here.

My goal, at this point, is to retain heifers to replace some of my less thrifty, older cows with bad teeth and no sparkle in their eye. The ones that didn't fit the bill were sold. I still have some that I would like to get rid of, but that will have to wait until next year. I'll know my cows much better then, too.

As far as cross fencing, I have two pastures at the moment. My husband and I are trying to figure out our best bet for cross fencing. We have a big creek that dumps into the Fourche River in the middle if the property, so fencing options aren't the greatest (turns out, cows can swim ).

I think I've rambled out everything I can think of. Sorry 'bout that, but y'all asked. I sure appreciate everyone's advice and opinions. It gives me a lot of different things to read up on.

 

[pfaubush]

I'm in Arkansas. Sorry! Profile updated. It's also updated to say female.

 

[Travlr]

I'm in western Arkansas. I need to go fill out my profile, I suppose.

Those pics were taken almost 6 months ago. Just sort of an idea on what they were. I have had terrible luck finding good hay. The previous ranch manager walked out (without telling anyone) with one round bale in the barn and 92 cows, in a drought. I've since cut the herd by half, fed liquid feed with low quality hay, and have managed to add condition over the winter. It started out looking like a cattle internment camp.

My experience with cattle is having three cows at a time, and their calves. We did take sick heifers and cows with mastitis from the organic dairies when we lived in Oregon, and we've all spent time with our neighbor working his cattle. He is also my backup when I feel like I'm in over my head.

My knowledge of genetics ends with rabbits, but I'm researching what I can. I've not heard too many people excited over black herefords. I've had a few baldies, and really like them. They seem to do very well at auction, too. Brangus is definitely an easier to find option around here.

My goal, at this point, is to retain heifers to replace some of my less thrifty, older cows with bad teeth and no sparkle in their eye. The ones that didn't fit the bill were sold. I still have some that I would like to get rid of, but that will have to wait until next year. I'll know my cows much better then, too.

As far as cross fencing, I have two pastures at the moment. My husband and I are trying to figure out our best bet for cross fencing. We have a big creek that dumps into the Fourche River in the middle if the property, so fencing options aren't the greatest (turns out, cows can swim ).

I think I've rambled out everything I can think of. Sorry 'bout that, but y'all asked. I sure appreciate everyone's advice and opinions. It gives me a lot of different things to read up on.

Thanks for the update. I think many of us were wondering if you were going to be one of those "one and done" people.

A little more advice... If you've never calved heifers you might want to rethink getting them as replacements your first year. They are spendy and if bred you don't know what they are bred to very often. They can really be a can of worms for someone with little experience. A good five year old cow will work for several years and you don't have to worry near as much about calving ease while you get your feet under you. My experience is older cows aren't as pretty, but they are less trouble.