Curley Calf Syndrome

[RD-Sam]

Has anyone got any knowledge about this in the Angus breed? It's where the calves spine is curved or twisted, lacking muscle, and stillborn. Looks like the AAA may think it is genetic. Just curious if anyone has seen it and how often? I'm just getting started, so I would hate to get started with the wrong line and then the AAA say you can't use that line anymore! PM's are welcome if you would rather not talk publicly. :???:

Here is a link to it. http://www.angus.org/aaa_request.pdf

 

[hillsdown]

It could be genetic or it could be caused by eating noxious plants, however if it is a common occurrence with a lineage????

Genetic defects happen in all breeds (beef as well as dairy) but that is why it is very important to notify the association when they occur.

 

[RD-Sam]

It could be genetic or it could be caused by eating noxious plants, however if it is a common occurrence with a lineage????

Genetic defects happen in all breeds (beef as well as dairy) but that is why it is very important to notify the association when they occur.

You are talking to someone who has been involved in dog breeding, it's all about covering up all the problems and sweeping them under the rug! :lol: I didn't know how the cattle industry was about issues like that? I for one am all for everything being out in the open, it's the only way to rid of the problem. And I haven't seen this if anyone is wondering, I just saw it posted today and sure didn't want to get started with a bad line. :drink:

 

[hillsdown]

I have only been in registered beef breeding for 6 years but with the Canadian Holstein association they want to know everything and anything to prevent and help all breeders for the future of the breed .
I assume that is the same with all associations as we all look to the future of our industry.

 

[RD-Sam]

Here is a continuation of this. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50695

 

[simcross]

The Curley Calf Syndrome is tentatively being traced to GAR Precision 1680 or his
ancestors.

The following statement was made by Dr. Laurence Denholm
of New SouthWales, Australia

The only reason this particular curly calf defect has come to be recognized
now is that the identified suspect carrier bull, Precision 1680, had so many
powerful positive carcass performance traits which Angus breeders recognized and
wanted to maximize in their own cattle. Breeders all over the world used his semen
very heavily indeed, in order to capture those carcass performance benefits, and
thereby increased the prevalence of his particular defective gene/s in the
population.

Look at 1680's pedigree

While it is commonly stated that Rito N Bar is the original source of the Rito family, the great Rito Family Bloodline finds its most concentrated origin in the year 1940 with the birth of Eliminator 5 of Bordulac.

Rito N Bar, born March 17, 1960, is linebred 4 times to Blackcap Revolution through his sire, Eliminator 302.

Eliminator 302 is linebred 2 times to Eliminator 5 of Bordulac, born April 26, 1940.

Eliminator 5 of Bordulac is linebred twice on both sides of his pedigree (4 times) to Blackcap Revolution who is linebred twice through Formosa of Portlethen, born May 7, 1865 to Duke of Wellington AAA Registration No. 294

. Rito N Bar is the sire of RR Rito 707. RR Rito 707 is linebred 8 more times through his dam to Blackcap Revolution, for a total of 12 times.

RR Rito 707 is the sire of Rito 707 of Ideal 533 70, who is the maternal grandsire of Band 234 of Ideal 3163, better known as The Band 105 Bull.

The Band 105 Bull is without question one of the most influential progenitors of the Rito Blood.

BAND 602 OF IDEAL 928 72 is the sire of BAND 234 OF IDEAL 3163

BAND 602 OF IDEAL 928 72 is also on the dam side of 1680

So there is a lot of line breeding to get a gene with a defect

 

[Outrigger2]

nice post simcross

 

[simcross]

They are talking about 1680 and an ancestor of his born in 1979 that could be Rito 9J9 of B156 7T26 his maternal grand sire as both being carriers.


Rito 9J9 of B156 7T265, born October 29, 1979, is linebred to Rito 707 of Ideal 533 70 and traces back to Blackcap Revolution at least 24 times. Rito 9J9 is well known for his 976 daughters with recorded performance through the AHIR including Rito 5H11 of 1B14 Rito 9J9, possibly his most famous daughter of all. Another female famous for high-performance and influenced by the great female sire Rito 9J9 B156 7T26 is GAR Precision 2536 who is the dam with the highest sale dollars for progeny sales in Angus history at over $7,000,000. GAR 2536 is sired by GAR Precision 1680 whose sire is Tehama Bando 155 and whose maternal grandam is by Rito 9J9. Some high-performance sires tracing directly to Rito 9J9 B156 7T26 are GAR Precision 1680, Rito 1I2 of 2536 Rito 6I6, Rito 6I6 of 4B20 6807, BR Midland, GAR Integrity, GAR Retail Product, CA Future Direction 5321, Rito 8E8 of 5H11 Traveler, GAR Expectation 4915 and SS Objective T510 OT26.

Rito 9J9 B156 7T26 is an ancestor to a lot of bulls

 

[simcross]

seems that 1680 is not the sole problem it must be in his (stacked or linebreed pedigree).

24 times to one sire sounds like a lot of linebreeding to me.

If they can get the DNA identified and be able to identify the carriers they can get past this

 

[simcross]

Even with all this news, on the non registered side of the business how many would buy 1680 semen if it was priced accordingly

 

[akburk2]

I'll say that it isn't pretty in the Angus Breed right now. I was talking to someone the other day that flushed 10 cows and nine of them had 1680 in the pedigree..... that will make you sick. Someone else said that they threw out all of the matings that they had of 1680, Future Direction, and Mile High.... maybe a little extreme. Until there is a test the 1680 bred cattle are worth virtually nothing. A good example would be Fox Run's sale earlier in the week. One of their animals had a full sib sell at Bohi's dispersal for $370,000... the ending bid that Fox Run recieved on their female was $70,000. It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of the fall sale season. I think that the big question on everyone's mind is why now? Why not in July, between the spring and fall sale season? Maybe because Mr. Callahan and Mr. Trowbridge who are on the board wanted the get their sales over with before the info was released..... just something to think about.

 

[angus9259]

It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of the fall sale season. .

Wehrmann's canceled their sale. Heavy 1680 influence.

How many calves are actually dying? The AA letter said there were only 48 reports?? Even if this is a 1680 problem it sure seems like a great deal of panic for the death rate being experienced - unless there's something I don't know - which is usually the case.

 

[Frankie]

It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of the fall sale season. .

Wehrmann's canceled their sale. Heavy 1680 influence.

How many calves are actually dying? The AA letter said there were only 48 reports?? Even if this is a 1680 problem it sure seems like a great deal of panic for the death rate being experienced - unless there's something I don't know - which is usually the case.

There are a couple of diseases that produce calves similar to these. They need to get the calf to a lab to be sure that it's actually CC and I think they've actually had 48 diagnosed. So I don't think they know how many have been born. The Assn has asked anyone with a suspect calf to contact them and they'll get it shipped to the lab for examination. They hope to have a test to identify carriers by February '09.

 

[Foxx]

Pretty bad really. In the Char breed, the calves sometimes live for a while. In the Angus breed, two carriers mated together 1:4 average will be dead at or shortly after birth. 2:4 average will be carriers.

1680 represents bloodlines in at least 65 of the top 100 $60 $Beef value AI studs, and he is in many others. This means that the breed is full of carriers. Some estimate that 1/8 to 1/6 of the entire breed will be carriers.

Hopefully our association will get it cleaned up fairly quickly--in a matter of a few years. It is a recessive gene (from what they say), and they anticipate that the test will be out by Thanksgiving.

Genetic diseases are not a big deal once a test is here. It is only an issue of testing to find it or not. If you find it, with a test, you can test all offspring of carriers to decide if they are carriers and worth keeping. If you purchase an Angus, a simple test will tell you if you purchased a carrier or not. If you did, you likely can get your money back. Probably most sellers will sell only offspring that have tested parents once the test is available.

Eventually it is likely that the AAA will not register carriers. We're hoping that they let us breed through it and not take away the right to use carriers.

Although 1680 had some real issues that make some folks hate him, he did produce carcass merit. His blood is worth keeping in the breed, but the genetic defect is not so good. Unfortunately, four other breeds are affected too.

 

[angus9259]

Woodhill announced from the block at their sale that they'd take anything back that was a carrier.

 

[Foxx]

Basin Angus will be doing the same for a full refund or replacement. I don't see how they can do this, but I suppose it is far better than having no sale that you might have preped for all year.

 

[ga. prime]

They can do that because there will be few if any returns.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Even with all this news, on the non registered side of the business how many would buy 1680 semen if it was priced accordingly

For our registered and commercial cattle the answer would be no. I would not purchase this semen. The money you save on semen, to me is not worth the higher risk of loosing calves.
Now, having said that, I have several straws of a confirmed carrier in my tank, I will probably take a chance and use it up but only on my non angus/ commercial cattle. I will use it on my few cattle that are other breeds, ie. herefords and charletts. They will be sold as feeder cattle only and not breeders. I WILL inform the auction yard that they are butcher only but can go to a feed lot and for what reason. I ALWAYS disclose anything wrong with my cattle.
Double R

 

[ga. prime]

They can do that because there will be few if any returns.

I think there probably will be. I noticed on the three trees site there are no bulls on there anymore that have 1680 bloodlines and they used to have several. I think there will be more returns than you can fathom and that anyone including myself can fathom.

I'll put that another way. They couldn't very well eat a million dollars worth of beef now could they?

 

[RD-Sam]

They can do that because there will be few if any returns.

I think there probably will be. I noticed on the three trees site there are no bulls on there anymore that have 1680 bloodlines and they used to have several. I think there will be more returns than you can fathom and that anyone including myself can fathom.

I'll put that another way. They couldn't very well eat a million dollars worth of beef now could they?

There may be alot of refunds, but I would think they would cut their loss at that, I sure wouldn't want to pay to transport something back to me on top of that.

What worries me about it is what the AAA might do, if they cut off the line completely that would be a big loss. I have heard that the Limousin folks are not going to allow any 1680 in the Lim-Flex program.