Cross Question

[Jabes0623]

For a maternal cross I'm looking very hard at Hereford X Gelbvieh. If I use a homo black GV bull will all of my calves come out black or will some still come out red?

Also just to pick your alls brains while I'm on the subject...What breed bull would you use on the Herf GV cross as a terminal sire? The calves must come out black & without any ear.

 

[Taurus]

They won't come out as red but they will be heterozygous black. As for the terminal breed on GV x Herf cows, I dunno since the only popular black breeds for terminal calves I can think of would be simmental or limflex. You can go back to another GV bull for 3/4 GV calves.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

They won't come out as red but they will be heterozygous black. As for the terminal breed on GV x Herf cows, I dunno since the only popular black breeds for terminal calves I can think of would be simmental or limflex. You can go back to another GV bull for 3/4 GV calves.

Why not cross back with Angus?

 

[Taurus]

They won't come out as red but they will be heterozygous black. As for the terminal breed on GV x Herf cows, I dunno since the only popular black breeds for terminal calves I can think of would be simmental or limflex. You can go back to another GV bull for 3/4 GV calves.

Why not cross back with Angus?

Personally I would think that simangus or limflex will add more pounds than Angus.

 

[Nesikep]

A homo-black bull on any color cow (without diluter genes) will throw all black calves (but you still will get baldies/brocklefaces), if you breed the offspring to a red or hetero-black, you will get some red and some black calves again.
I think Gelbvieh would keep the mature size of the offspring down nicely, they're meaty too. I can say I had good momma cows from the GV cross, and nice steers as well

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

They won't come out as red but they will be heterozygous black. As for the terminal breed on GV x Herf cows, I dunno since the only popular black breeds for terminal calves I can think of would be simmental or limflex. You can go back to another GV bull for 3/4 GV calves.

Why not cross back with Angus?

Personally I would think that simangus or limflex will add more pounds than Angus.

And these bulls would throw black calves guaranteed?

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Why not cross back with Angus?

Personally I would think that simangus or limflex will add more pounds than Angus.[/quote]

And these bulls would throw black calves guaranteed?[/quote]

They only thing guaranteed is if the bull was tested Homo Black, in any breed. Homo black bulls can only throw black calves.

 

[Nesikep]

But they can still throw a whiteface from the herf influence, right?.. Essentially giving you a black baldie

 

[Taurus]

But they can still throw a whiteface from the herf influence, right?.. Essentially giving you a black baldie

A F1 baldy may will give you either a white face or solid calf.

 

[Jabes0623]

I'm fine with Baldie/brockle calves, I just need to be sure I produce black calves with both the maternal & terminal cross because I'll only be retaining the heifers & there's just to big a hit around these parts if your selling anything not black.

I think for what I'm attempting to do the Herf GV cross offers the best solution so long as I can be guaranteed that the offspring will be black. It's a shame we have to breed for form rather than function but such is life.

Now all I've got to do is decide what breed to use as my terminal sire. Thankfully I've got some time on that one.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Limflex is not a breed. Limflex can be from 25% to 75% angus x limousin.

 

[Taurus]

Limflex is not a breed. Limflex can be from 25% to 75% angus x limousin.

And your point is? Balancer and SimAngus are not officially breeds, yet they are popular bulls to be used.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Just wouldn't want someone running around trying to find a breed of cattle that doesn't exist. When you are looking for a terminal sire for crossbred cow you get more bang for buck with a straight bred bull. Think Limousin Simmi or Char.

 

[Jabes0623]

Char is out because I have to have black. If you don't mind school me on the main differences between Limousin & Sims.

Obviously I want to produce the best calf possible both in terms of quality as well as size. I know there's no one size fits all answer but I'm hoping I can find the best balance possible in my 3 way cross. I know Angus people will say Angus & Sim people will say Sim but I'm more interested in the information than I am the final answer. If that makes sense.

 

[Taurus]

Just wouldn't want someone running around trying to find a breed of cattle that doesn't exist. When you are looking for a terminal sire for crossbred cow you get more bang for buck with a straight bred bull. Think Limousin Simmi or Char.

please excuse RedBullBreeder, he just likes to put me down and use me as scapegoat so he can feels good about himself.

Anyways, full blooded limousin will throw either black and red calves if they are bred to heterozygous black cows. Charolais will give you grey or yellow calves.

It doesn't matter if its a black limo or black simmi or black simangus or black limflex, they will still add more pounds.

 

[Nesikep]

Taurus, I was speaking of the cross producing the F1, that is, Homo black bull on a herf, will produce either an all black animal, or a black baldy, but it will always be black. If you breed this F1 cross to a HETERO black bull, you'll have about 25% homo black, 50% hetero black, and 25% red. Breeding to a homo red bull you'll have a 50/50 split between red and black

 

[Taurus]

Taurus, I was speaking of the cross producing the F1, that is, Homo black bull on a herf, will produce either an all black animal, or a black baldy, but it will always be black. If you breed this F1 cross to a HETERO black bull, you'll have about 25% homo black, 50% hetero black, and 25% red. Breeding to a homo red bull you'll have a 50/50 split between red and black

Even with the percentages you listed, you don't know what color the calf will be till it's born.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Just listen to Taurus, seems to know everthing and nothing at the same time. If you read enough of Taurus post you see vast cattle knowledge expressed nearly everyday on here.

But to my way of thinking you can't get a 3way cross out of GVxHer cow using a limflex or simangus bull. A balancer bull would give you a little bit of a 3way cross. Its not a problem to find purebred Homo black limi or simmi. A heavy muscled angus would work as well.

 

[Jabes0623]

Just wouldn't want someone running around trying to find a breed of cattle that doesn't exist. When you are looking for a terminal sire for crossbred cow you get more bang for buck with a straight bred bull. Think Limousin Simmi or Char.

please excuse RedBullBreeder, he just likes to put me down and use me as scapegoat so he can feels good about himself.

Anyways, full blooded limousin will throw either black and red calves if they are bred to heterozygous black cows. Charolais will give you grey or yellow calves.

It doesn't matter if its a black limo or black simmi or black simangus or black limflex, they will still add more pounds.

It seems to me as though he's just making sure I understand since I'm a noob. Which I appreciate.

Back to the topic at hand...Would one breed of bull bring significantly more of an attribute the Herf GV cross is missing? Or is the Herf GV cross a solid combo when it comes to quality & all I really need to worry about is adding weight?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Simplify things, go Angus.