City guy wants to fight again!!

[City Guy]

Can't figure out what is wrong with this topic. I've posted it twice before and only received one dismissive reply. The subject is FAA --Fertility Associated Anigen. It is a protein present ON not iN some sperm that increases fertility in some (75-78%) bulls. Studies I have read conclude that it a profit booster. A chute-side test takes only minutes and is very accurate. Costs= $30.00 or less. WHY IS NO ONE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT THIS? Is it just not that important? Doesn't a 15-16% increased conception rate on first service mean $ saved and $ earned? What am I not understanding??
A one time -life time test BEFORE you buy the bull or semen What's not to like?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

No one is willing to talk about it because it's a boring topic.

 

[NolanCountyAG]

If the bull breeder wants to test for it, thats cool. However I'm not gonna worry about it.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

I would think there are better ways to spend the $30 per head, that not only increase conception but have a positive impact on overall heard health. :2cents:

 

[Jessica06]

I would think there are better ways to spend the $30 per head, that not only increase conception but have a positive impact on overall heard health. :2cents:

x2

If we all tried to do every single thing that has MAYBE been proven to improve fertility, we'd be worn out. The cattle business is stressful enough without making mountains out of molehills. Assuming the bull is healthy and tested, cow BCS should be priority #1 when it comes to improving herd fertility and rate of first service pregnancies.

 

[Aaron]

Hahaha. Guys who are really anal about conception rates will throw multiple bulls in to boost them. I know guys big and small that buy anything with nuts that is cheap and toss them in with cows. Lots of bulls sold without vaccinations or BSE's. The worst cases will watch what is selling hot at the market and bid on staggy steers of the appropriate color to breed the cows to produce the 'hot' calves. At the very most, it would be a fad. Tenderness DNA testing was a fade here 10 years ago and I am not sure if I know of any purebred breeder that still does it.

 

[City Guy]

BJB: And what are those ways?

Aaron: It is a yes or no situation. Either the bull has it or he doesn't. If he has it, it works-that's been proven. Uniform cattle bring more money, at any age. I hope the time never comes when more money is a fad!
Tenderness DNA testing may have been a fad, but tenderness is not, ask any housewife or chef.
I know of several breeders who test for tenderness--mainly by ultrasound.

 

[City Guy]

ricebeltfarmer: I agree that BSE and BCS should be top priorities, but seems to me this easy test could also be important.
$30.00 test cost. That bull breeds 20-30 cows each year for 3 years or, say, 75 cows. Cost per cow is forty cents.

 

[bmoore87]

I wouldnt mind seeing breeders use it (i know alot f them and me spend alot on other stuff that wouldn't have as big of return) if its as accurate as described seems like a useful thing to test for.

15% on 20 cows would be 3 calves born 21 days earlier would be 63 days of increased weight on those calves gained would easily pay for itself in a year if my math is right.

But I would like to see it proven in use in the real world before using.

 

[dieselbeef]

get a good bull

 

[Jessica06]

BJB: And what are those ways?

Aaron: It is a yes or no situation. Either the bull has it or he doesn't. If he has it, it works-that's been proven. Uniform cattle bring more money, at any age. I hope the time never comes when more money is a fad!
Tenderness DNA testing may have been a fad, but tenderness is not, ask any housewife or chef.
I know of several breeders who test for tenderness--mainly by ultrasound.

How do you test for tenderness with ultrasound??

 

[City Guy]

It's a subjective study of the fibers in the ribeye image. Size, direction, uniformity, density etc. I watched it done at Pharo's. Got to be pretty good at it myself. How do you measure tenderness?

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Start with cows bred for fertility, add a bull that has passed a BSE and has an appropriate number of cows to cover. Add a good mineral and vaccination program. Liberally apply good management.There should be no good reason most of the cows don't settle. These are all steps that are beneficial to your herd in many ways, and are proven.

 

[M-5]

It's a subjective study of the fibers in the ribeye image. Size, direction, uniformity, density etc. I watched it done at Pharo's. Got to be pretty good at it myself. How do you measure tenderness?

he knows what an ultra sound does and it can give you a pretty good indication of what the tenderness MIGHT be. but its not the end all be all as it is speculation until the ribeye hit a plate and you drag a knife thru it. as with anything its just a tool.

 

[City Guy]

So true.

 

[City Guy]

BJB: I agree with every thing you said except "liberally apply good management". What does that mean? I hesitate to agree with something so vague.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

It was a slightly snarky remark, when I realized I seemed to be writing a recipe. In other words, good management practices need to be utilized daily, not on a hit and miss basis. It takes a lot of effort to over manage a herd. It is way easier to do very little and just skate by.

 

[City Guy]

BJB: My early education in cattle production was reading the ideas of such people as Tom Lasiter, Jan Bonsma, Gerald Fry, Walt Davis, Greg Judy, Kit Pharo, Joel Salatin, Allan Savory, Larry Leonhardt and others. And while their opinion of the ideal cow differs somewhat, their basic management philosophies are identical and can be summed up in two sentences:

1. Change the cow, not the environment
2. Demand that the cow do most of the work
These principles and the basic tenets of mob grazing and multi species grazing form my personal philosophy of livestock management. Of course, I am painfully aware that I have never and will never have the opportunity to test them in the real world and would probably get slapped silly on some points in actual practice. That is why I have the additional rules of "Don't be afraid to change if necessary" and "It's no big deal to be wrong as long as you're willing to change".

I agree with you that whatever one's management style, it should be applied consistently.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

No way a ultrasound can predict tenderness. Different ultrasound techs will give different results on the same animal.

 

[City Guy]

Agreed. That's why I said "Subjective interpretation" And yes it is a prediction, not a fact. But it is something to go on. DNA testing is also a prediction as is "Eyeballing". Eating is the only true test.