Cattle for the south?

[andybob]

Bonsmara are an exelent heat tolerant composite, worth considering either pure or for crossing in southern states.
http://www.bonsmara.co.za/index_eng.php

 

[TexasBred]

Santa Gertrudis perform well in the heat being from East Texas we see a lot of heat related issues such as daily gain and heat cycles in our females. The Gerts seem to have no problem in any enviroment they don't bring as much per pound as black calves but the large bone structure they usually have a higher weaning weight and the mature slaughter cows always weigh more so even at slaughter price bring more $$ home. Just my opionion I like Santa Gertrudis so I guess I am particial to the True American Beef

One of my grandaddies lived just west of Marshall, TX. His climate would have been really close to yours or almost the exact same. He ran gerts for as long as I can remember. They were an extremely hot commodity back in the 60's. People came from all over to buy his heifers.

I worked in construction one summer just outside Karnack....you talking hot....hard to describe and that was before global warming.

 

[cow pollinater]

The old vet (who raises a lot of cattle - a heck of a lot of them) tells me it is not so much out 100 plus temp days. It is rather our over night lows being at or above 80 degrees that get these cold climate cattle in trouble.

:nod: Hot doesn't hurt cows to bad as long as they can get away from it for a few hours. I start my breeding route at 1:30 am. We usually hit 100 a few days in May and then consistantly in June but the night temps are in the sixties and everything is fine. But the tail end of July and August when night temps are in the eighties, EVERYTHING the cows do suffers even when daytime temps stay in the nineties. I know when the good breeding is done the first morning that I step out of the house and feel the sweat start on my forehead.

 

[djinwa]

Common sense would tell most people that black is not the way to go when the temps are soring above 100 degree and the sun is beating down on the cattle. If you don't have common sense then I challenge you to put on a black raincoat this summer an walk around in the sun. I was trying to be nice toward the Angus people that always seem to think we are bashing Angus if our opinion is given. The truth is that raising pure black cattle in my climate is borderline animal cruelty.

Well said. And that's the weakness I see in the whole black angus thing. Sooner or later, some animals rights folks are going to start making a big deal out of the heat stress. Especially when in the heat, thousands die in feedlots as happened last year, and other years. I guess we can just call all our customers idiots, that don't know that cattle have to be black. The image of feedlots is already not positive, and then pile on more dead cattle. Who is in charge of public relations?

 

[djinwa]

Thats the main reason we like a brimmer cross down here. Even the black ones.

I don't understand why go to brimmer to get more heat tolerance, then lose the advantage by going black.

I guess it's better than black without ear. And I guess you may get more money for black. Is anyone ever going to change the black trend when it's in the best interest of the cattle and therefore for marketing and public relations?

 

[TexasBred]

Thats the main reason we like a brimmer cross down here. Even the black ones.

I don't understand why go to brimmer to get more heat tolerance, then lose the advantage by going black.

I guess it's better than black without ear. And I guess you may get more money for black. Is anyone ever going to change the black trend when it's in the best interest of the cattle and therefore for marketing and public relations?

You don't lose that much heat tolerance when you go black. Brangus are a good example. There's more to disapating heat than being white or "non black".

 

[dun]

I find the whole red and black and heat tolerance deal kind of confusng. All of our ponds are fenced so the cows can;t reach them, if we water out of them it's from a remote water point fed by underground pipe from the pond. We have I think around 5 black cows/heifers the rest are red or red baldy/brockles. In the heat of the day they all shade up but while it's still hot and sunny they will all drift out of the shade and start grazing and graze till aorund dark or a little later. In the morning they're all are laying down and start getting up about when the sun comes up and they'll graze till mid morning then shade up. Our days dureing June-early august will be only in the 80s-90s with the occasiona week of over a 100. Nights typically get down to around 70-75 but during those blistering days it may not get below 90 at night. During thr 80-90 spell the humidity is high during that blistering spell the humidity will drop but it's still sweaty to go outside at night and just walk around. Oh yeah, no Brahman influence. A neighbor runs Gerts and I can predict what my cows will b doing by seeing what his are doing.
Just some observations

 

[Dylan Biggs]

He has wrote alot of books, I know , that does not mean he knows what he is talking about.

Ignorance is bliss, you need to get out more son. :shock:

No kidding!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Thats the main reason we like a brimmer cross down here. Even the black ones.

I don't understand why go to brimmer to get more heat tolerance, then lose the advantage by going black.

I guess it's better than black without ear. And I guess you may get more money for black. Is anyone ever going to change the black trend when it's in the best interest of the cattle and therefore for marketing and public relations?

You don't lose that much heat tolerance when you go black. Brangus are a good example. There's more to disapating heat than being white or "non black".

yep like the ability to sweat,

 

[whitewing]

When it's 105 in the shade with 50% humidity a cow is an idiot if she has access to a pond and don't get in it sometimes. My brangus would do it from time to time but mostly just laid under a shade tree naping and chewing their cud all day and grazed at night.

Interesting observation. I've got 5 ponds on my place and my Charolais actually SWIM in the darned things during the heat of the day. The mestizos just look at 'em like they're crazy. :lol2:

 

[TexasBred]

cold natured maybe...or afraid of water.Bet some of them are dark colored too.

 

[whitewing]

cold natured maybe...or afraid of water.Bet some of them are dark colored too.

Yup, many of them are dark brown or even black. And you're probably right about them being cold-natured. When it drops down to about 60 here the average Venezuelan is shivering, wearing a sweater, and complaining about how cold it is. :lol2:

 

[jedstivers]

cold natured maybe...or afraid of water.Bet some of them are dark colored too.

Yup, many of them are dark brown or even black. And you're probably right about them being cold-natured. When it drops down to about 60 here the average Venezuelan is shivering, wearing a sweater, and complaining about how cold it is. :lol2:

What's wrong with that? That's just the way I am :lol: If it never got under 65 it would be great to me.

 

[andybob]

I agree with Bonsma on his selection of cattle to fit the climate and pasture conditions. But one must go further in their selection of beef animals. The animal may fit the conditions but the final product must be palatable. This is where the south has always taken a hit on the price they get for their beef. Through the use of EPD's and DNA selection this is slowly but surely changing the way beef is being bred in the south. For example the well known King Ranch is backing up and re breeding the Santa Gertrudis for better beef not just the tolerance to take the environmental conditions.

The Bonsmara breeders are putting their money on their beef quality, and guarenteeing a market for Bonsmara breeders in the USA
http://www.countrybarnsteakhouse.com/

 

[Ruark]

I always wondered about this. We have long, hot, humid summers down here in central Texas, sometimes going for 2 months or more with highs over 100, humid, and no rain, yet you'll drive down a rural road and see pasture after pasture of black angus cattle, sometimes with no real shade. I don't know how they survive in this heat.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I always wondered about this. We have long, hot, humid summers down here in central Texas, sometimes going for 2 months or more with highs over 100, humid, and no rain, yet you'll drive down a rural road and see pasture after pasture of black angus cattle, sometimes with no real shade. I don't know how they survive in this heat.

do they look to be thrivin' or just surviving??

 

[Douglas]

Course the other point is that calves from the south end up in the midwest feedlots in the winters,so we may be producing something our customers don't want. I guess that is what the bull is for. Do the feedlots look for different types of calves for the summer?

 

[TexasBred]

I always wondered about this. We have long, hot, humid summers down here in central Texas, sometimes going for 2 months or more with highs over 100, humid, and no rain, yet you'll drive down a rural road and see pasture after pasture of black angus cattle, sometimes with no real shade. I don't know how they survive in this heat.

do they look to be thrivin' or just surviving??

They do ok. I'm sure they'd prefer it to be a little cooler but there are a number of large operators that make them work. Graze at night and suffer during the day, but breed and raise nifty calves.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I always wondered about this. We have long, hot, humid summers down here in central Texas, sometimes going for 2 months or more with highs over 100, humid, and no rain, yet you'll drive down a rural road and see pasture after pasture of black angus cattle, sometimes with no real shade. I don't know how they survive in this heat.

do they look to be thrivin' or just surviving??

They do ok. I'm sure they'd prefer it to be a little cooler but there are a number of large operators that make them work. Graze at night and suffer during the day, but breed and raise nifty calves.

I really think you have to compare them with other breeds when they are mixed in to a herd. The few I have calve in the late fall and that is the schedule I want to keep them on.

Ruark, The old cattleman vet tells me it aint so much our hundred degree plus days that get them in trouble, it is rather the over night lows being in the 80's or close to it.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Boogie 30% of the US cow herd is Brammer influenced due to heat and insects.
Seen some mighty fine bulls wilt away on coastal parrie while cross cows were thriving.
Can't raise a decent calf no matter what the breed on a stressed cow.
Cows that work here won't work as well where you are and not at all for somewhere else.
The girls that do best here are Brangus, Tigers, and Brimmers.