Cattle for the south?

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Douglas":2lfinb0u said:
Course the other point is that calves from the south end up in the midwest feedlots in the winters,so we may be producing something our customers don't want. I guess that is what the bull is for. Do the feedlots look for different types of calves for the summer?
So why not use heat tolerant Bos Taurus breeds as the base for commercial herds in the south? they cope better in the cold than Indicus, and when crossed to European Taurus impart a similar degree of heterosis as in Indicus/Taurus crosses, run red cattle with an Angus as a terminal, or breed a pure black strain (no Angus influence) if CAB is the desired market. The composite breed Bonsmara already has their guarenteed marketing policy in place if this were to be the breed of choice.
http://sangacattle.webs.com/apps/links/
Some good pictures on the site for interest.
 
They do ok. I'm sure they'd prefer it to be a little cooler but there are a number of large operators that make them work. Graze at night and suffer during the day, but breed and raise nifty calves.[/quote]

I really think you have to compare them with other breeds when they are mixed in to a herd. The few I have calve in the late fall and that is the schedule I want to keep them on.

Ruark, The old cattleman vet tells me it aint so much our hundred degree plus days that get them in trouble, it is rather the over night lows being in the 80's or close to it.[/quote]............. thats because it takes em to about ten at night, to start to cool back down to normal body temps... sorta like turning off a car... it gets hotter right after you shut it off, then gradually cools back down
 
Douglas":30llhufb said:
Course the other point is that calves from the south end up in the midwest feedlots in the winters,so we may be producing something our customers don't want. I guess that is what the bull is for. Do the feedlots look for different types of calves for the summer?
no more than a 1/4 brahman influence.in '''my cow's"" anymore..
 
Caustic Burno":1z0vidqx said:
Boogie 30% of the US cow herd is Brammer influenced due to heat and insects.
Seen some mighty fine bulls wilt away on coastal parrie while cross cows were thriving.
Can't raise a decent calf no matter what the breed on a stressed cow.
Cows that work here won't work as well where you are and not at all for somewhere else.
The girls that do best here are Brangus, Tigers, and Brimmers.

I've got some F1's that are half Brimmer. Some brindles that are not true "tigers". Most of mine are brangus. Angus are a minority. Got most of them from buying HBs who calved them out. Cypress would call them "A+". I figure them as a B-. :D They're slick hided and not 100%.
 
ALACOWMAN":33aip4zo said:
Douglas":33aip4zo said:
Course the other point is that calves from the south end up in the midwest feedlots in the winters,so we may be producing something our customers don't want. I guess that is what the bull is for. Do the feedlots look for different types of calves for the summer?
no more than a 1/4 brahman influence.in '''my cow's"" anymore..

That too makes a hel of a cow for the south. Brangus type with a bit less ear and a big butt.
 
ALACOWMAN":x96vofmy said:
Douglas":x96vofmy said:
Course the other point is that calves from the south end up in the midwest feedlots in the winters,so we may be producing something our customers don't want. I guess that is what the bull is for. Do the feedlots look for different types of calves for the summer?
no more than a 1/4 brahman influence.in '''my cow's"" anymore..
A good friend of mine manages one of the largest feedlots in the south. He has been in he feedlot business his whole life and he is almost 80 years old. He has always told me not to market any calves with any ear between Sept. 1st and the end of Feb. You get docked hard during those months. I have found that to be true.
 
Isomade":1wpu06lu said:
ALACOWMAN":1wpu06lu said:
Douglas":1wpu06lu said:
Course the other point is that calves from the south end up in the midwest feedlots in the winters,so we may be producing something our customers don't want. I guess that is what the bull is for. Do the feedlots look for different types of calves for the summer?
no more than a 1/4 brahman influence.in '''my cow's"" anymore..
A good friend of mine manages one of the largest feedlots in the south. He has been in he feedlot business his whole life and he is almost 80 years old. He has always told me not to market any calves with any ear between Sept. 1st and the end of Feb. You get docked hard during those months. I have found that to be true.
what ive found to be true """here""" is to raise what the market wants, and you'll aways have a market.................................to market :cowboy:
 
Isomade":qmzir4ah said:
ALACOWMAN":qmzir4ah said:
Douglas":qmzir4ah said:
Course the other point is that calves from the south end up in the midwest feedlots in the winters,so we may be producing something our customers don't want. I guess that is what the bull is for. Do the feedlots look for different types of calves for the summer?
no more than a 1/4 brahman influence.in '''my cow's"" anymore..
A good friend of mine manages one of the largest feedlots in the south. He has been in he feedlot business his whole life and he is almost 80 years old. He has always told me not to market any calves with any ear between Sept. 1st and the end of Feb. You get docked hard during those months. I have found that to be true.

Where is he locate and where does he draw his calves from?
 
Douglas":1q72r13t said:
ALACOWMAN":1q72r13t said:
Douglas":1q72r13t said:
Course the other point is that calves from the south end up in the midwest feedlots in the winters,so we may be producing something our customers don't want. I guess that is what the bull is for. Do the feedlots look for different types of calves for the summer?
no more than a 1/4 brahman influence.in '''my cow's"" anymore..

Where is he locate and where does he draw his calves from?
Western Oklahoma, he draws from most of the state. However the comment is in general. Most feed lots will give a little more for a calf with ear between March and the end of August simply because of the weather and better feed conversion for these animals during warmer months.
 
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.
 
thommoos":1ubm81l4 said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.
I blame alot of that on commercial cattleman going with low birth weight bulls year after year....every one that i know thats their main criteria BW
 
ALACOWMAN":1yx490yd said:
thommoos":1yx490yd said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.
I blame alot of that on commercial cattleman going with low birth weight bulls year after year....every one that i know thats their main criteria BW

I remember pulling many of them back in the 70's. Huge calves and still did not perform in this heat.
 
backhoeboogie":1mc67mh9 said:
ALACOWMAN":1mc67mh9 said:
thommoos":1mc67mh9 said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.
I blame alot of that on commercial cattleman going with low birth weight bulls year after year....every one that i know thats their main criteria BW

I remember pulling many of them back in the 70's. Huge calves and still did not perform in this heat.
your heats no hotter than mine. and no breeze blowing year round either
 
ALACOWMAN":2d7iy3ib said:
thommoos":2d7iy3ib said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.
I blame alot of that on commercial cattleman going with low birth weight bulls year after year....every one that i know thats their main criteria BW

i agree with the heat. up here you will find mostly straight angus calves. some perform great others dont. but i know one guy who runs about 600 head and they consentrate on real low bw for cows and hiefers both and you dont see much over a 450lb weaning wieght with him.. but the guy my dad runs cattle for is straight angus calves treats them about the same and he weans closer to the 550-600lb mark consistently. and the only difference between how the cattle are run is the fenceline seperating their place from ours.
 
Lon":3u7bh2iq said:
ALACOWMAN":3u7bh2iq said:
thommoos":3u7bh2iq said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.
I blame alot of that on commercial cattleman going with low birth weight bulls year after year....every one that i know thats their main criteria BW

i agree with the heat. up here you will find mostly straight angus calves. some perform great others dont. but i know one guy who runs about 600 head and they consentrate on real low bw for cows and hiefers both and you dont see much over a 450lb weaning wieght with him.. but the guy my dad runs cattle for is straight angus calves treats them about the same and he weans closer to the 550-600lb mark consistently. and the only difference between how the cattle are run is the fenceline seperating their place from ours.
no,,, theres a bigger difference then just a fence..somebody is doing homework, and pushing a pencil around a little more
 
ALACOWMAN":1nkrz0tw said:
no,,, theres a bigger difference then just a fence..somebody is doing homework, and pushing a pencil around a little more

well yes your correct. i meant difference on how the cows are ran on a year round basis.
 
thommoos":3afd4vqp said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.

The only" straight bred cows" I have really seen perform here other than full blood Brimmer is the composites
Beefmaster, Brangus, Brafords and they are all toting Brimmer genetics. Anyone that tells you that they can wean a calf as heavy out of full blood English or Cont. is peeing on your leg and telling you it is raining. Commercial cattlemen are selling by the pound at the barn and you ain't going to get the pounds out of inferior cattle for your environment.
I have an Angus bull in my pasture right now and he is the sorriest bull I have ever owned, running him over Herefords and Brangus. I have serious doubts that he will be here next year, he is failing to thrive to my expectations.
I am already looking.
 
Caustic Burno":2moi3nva said:
thommoos":2moi3nva said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.

The only" straight bred cows" I have really seen perform here other than full blood Brimmer is the composites
Beefmaster, Brangus, Brafords and they are all toting Brimmer genetics. Anyone that tells you that they can wean a calf as heavy out of full blood English or Cont. is peeing on your leg and telling you it is raining. Commercial cattlemen are selling by the pound at the barn and you ain't going to get the pounds out of inferior cattle for your environment.
I have an Angus bull in my pasture right now and he is the sorriest bull I have ever owned, running him over Herefords and Brangus. I have serious doubts that he will be here next year, he is failing to thrive to my expectations.
I am already looking.

We have some Red Poll bulls you would be happy with :D
 
Caustic Burno":laq1t6pu said:
thommoos":laq1t6pu said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.

The only" straight bred cows" I have really seen perform here other than full blood Brimmer is the composites
Beefmaster, Brangus, Brafords and they are all toting Brimmer genetics. Anyone that tells you that they can wean a calf as heavy out of full blood English or Cont. is peeing on your leg and telling you it is raining. Commercial cattlemen are selling by the pound at the barn and you ain't going to get the pounds out of inferior cattle for your environment.
I have an Angus bull in my pasture right now and he is the sorriest bull I have ever owned, running him over Herefords and Brangus. I have serious doubts that he will be here next year, he is failing to thrive to my expectations.
I am already looking.
you'r the one that says there are only three breeds for the US.. angus ,hereford, brahman how come you always change your stories to suit you arguments
 
ALACOWMAN":3d6w6zyl said:
Caustic Burno":3d6w6zyl said:
thommoos":3d6w6zyl said:
Having tried Angus base in mid alabama, and seeing the slaughters not gain any weight really was disheartning for all the talk I had heard how great the Angus were. But not down here. Any down hear from my experience wean at about 400 lbs, I have beefmaster weaning @ 600 lbs. Heat I feel contributes a lot to it.

The only" straight bred cows" I have really seen perform here other than full blood Brimmer is the composites
Beefmaster, Brangus, Brafords and they are all toting Brimmer genetics. Anyone that tells you that they can wean a calf as heavy out of full blood English or Cont. is peeing on your leg and telling you it is raining. Commercial cattlemen are selling by the pound at the barn and you ain't going to get the pounds out of inferior cattle for your environment.
I have an Angus bull in my pasture right now and he is the sorriest bull I have ever owned, running him over Herefords and Brangus. I have serious doubts that he will be here next year, he is failing to thrive to my expectations.
I am already looking.
you'r the one that says there are only three breeds for the US.. angus ,hereford, brahman how come you always change your stories to suit you arguments

I didn't I have never said a straight bred will perform better than a crossbred
I said ther are three esential breeds Angus Brahman and Hereford in the US, I have never said that a straightbred will produce a superior product to a crossbred. I still believe there are three essential breeds. I believe all three will be inferior in one aspect or the other as a straigt bred calf the Brimmer will take the hit for the hide and tenderness( that I believe is a bunch of BS as most Americans couldn't tell the difference in a steak from one versus an Angus). The Hereford will take a hit here for being red and having less growth than the crossbred calf. The Angus will bring good money at the barn you just left the pounds somewhere cause they are not going to make it to the barn with you.
Unless your selling seedstock you are one of the people PT Barnum was looking for. All three as straightbred will loose you money versus using a combination of the three.
I think a Hereford over Brangus is great or the other way around, some of the best calves I ever saw was an Angus over Brimmer cows and a true F1 Brangus.
I have never had a straight bred Hereford put the pounds on a calf that the crosses did and they have been eating grass here for quite a long time. The Herefords were producing seedstock the crosses were producing more money. Yes the 20% that I retained did sell good, the rest were loaded to go to the barn they never brought the money the crossbred did even if they sold for more per pound. The crossbred calves always out weaned them.
 

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