cattle ethics

[angus9259]

Gonna take two females to the sale I don't want. One's a 4 year old. Raises a good calf, good milker and breeder, sound in every way - but high headed. Not aggressive at all - even with a calf, but flighty so she's hard to work. In a field she's fine.

Another is a bred heifer. Good disposition and sound, but more cow hocked than I like.

What, in your opinion, needs to go to the kill pen and when is it OK to sell the ones you don't want to someone else?

I think I tend to send more to the kill pen then I should when it would still make someone a decent cow.

 

[randiliana]

Here is what I think needs to go to the kill pen.
Dangerous cows, if they will chase you they should go to the kill pen. I don't care if it is only when she has a new calf.
Cows that have bad udders, vaginal prolapse, uterine prolapse, etc. In these cases I believe that if I don't want it in my herd, I shouldn't send it to someone else's.
Dry cows.

I wouldn't send a cow with slight conformational problems to the kill pen. As long as it won't affect her to calve, and/or raise a calf I would sell her as a bred cow.

Same thing as a spooky cow. As long as she is not overtly dangerous I would sell her as a bred. If she is bouncing off the walls in the sale ring, the buyers will know what her temprament is.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

yep this is a mild situation ...those folks got eye's ,its the hidden defects are the doctored up ones, that are.run em through as bred

 

[Brandonm22]

I don't have any problem at all with a "high headed" heifer. Most of us would probably NEVER care about it being high headed or flighty. As for cow hocked??.......as long as she is sound I am perfectly fine with you selling them to whomever will pay the highest $$$.

 

[bandit80]

I look at it this way. I don't believe in passing my problem on to someone else, no matter how minor the problem. No matter what the reason, a cull is a cull to me. Now I may have cost myself a few dollars by selling a few cows that are just too flighty that someone else would have taken a chance on, but I feel better about having her culled rather than continuing to give someone else a headache.

 

[bandit80]

Most of us would probably NEVER care about it being high headed or flighty.

Don't count me in as one of the most. ;-)

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i guarantee there's buyers there waiting too snatch those type up, and happy too get em reguardless of ethics.

 

[BC]

A little cow hocked doesn't bother me unless it causes some problems in the cows ability to travel. A little high headed or flighty doesn't bother me unless the cows get to the point where I cannot pen them unless it is the dead of winter and they are looking for feed.

Someone wrote earlier that they would not even tolerate aggression in a cow with a new baby calf. I expect my cows to protect their new babies even from me. I just write the birthdate down in my book and tag the calf latter when you get the cattle up. You can write the tag number down after you have watched the calf nurse the cow.

 

[Brandonm22]

i guarantee there's buyers there waiting too snatch those type up, and happy too get em reguardless of ethics.

Exactly, disposition is a huge issue if you like to wander amongst the herd patting them on the head and giving them treats with the grandkids. Somebody who works em 2-3 times a year with horses or 4 wheelers is not as demanding. Now, if she goes in the ring and tries to jump out of the ring, blows snot all over the order buyers, and trys to kill the ring men, the market will adjust appropriately to her no matter how you were selling her.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i guarantee there's buyers there waiting too snatch those type up, and happy too get em reguardless of ethics.

Exactly, disposition is a huge issue if you like to wander amongst the herd patting them on the head and giving them treats with the grandkids. Somebody who works em 2-3 times a year with horses or 4 wheelers is not as demanding. Now, if she goes in the ring and tries to jump out of the ring, blows snot all over the order buyers, and trys to kill the ring men, the market will adjust appropriately to her no matter how you were selling her.[/quote]........... aint that the truth.. i had a brahman cow that i knew was going take a discount from the get go.was already prepared for that... wasnt prepared for the barn worker to run off when i unloaded her, she made a move at him and let her out in the parking lot. well a tranq shot and a front end loader later she went through. they let'er run strait through just long enough to see she was a cow and able too move... i held my ethics back that day

 

[pdfangus]

To me being truthful and honest is where the ethics comes in.

I got no problem selling a cow with a conformational fault. darn near every one of em has something to pick on. thing is, i would point it out to the buyer.

I have sold cows that would never raise me a good bull calf. great steers but not quality enough for bulls.
I use to call em bill payer cows and price em as commercials. would tell buyers that I was trying to breed something special and that while this cow will raise a good solid calf every year she is not going to raise something special. If the calf is standing there to back up what I say the sale is usually made.

ethics is honesty and integrity and being as good as your word and standing behind what you sell.

If the cow is sold as bred make darn sure she is pregnant or say that she has not been checked. I make my buyers wait til I can have the vet check em.

We fall calve and breed. working on getting to a 45 day season. Usually have a couple that fail to settle. we expose them to a bull for March calves.
I have one customer who calls me every summer to see if i am going to have any of those spring calvers. I tell him what I have and as soon as we get em examined he comes and picks out a couple. He then figures out if he needs to pay for them in December or in January. I hodl em til he is ready for em. He knows what they are and how they got that way and they are working for him.

 

[angus9259]

Thanks for the feedback. I have no problem walking in the field with her - even if she's just had a calf. She catches just fine too. It's once she's caught and getting her through the alley and into the chute that's tough and she never turns on me - just fights like hell to get out. If I were field breeding and not AI and sending the cattle through the chute so often I guess I might keep her too. I just don't like working her. She has been sleeved, vaccinated, TB/Bruc tested and wormed. Her udders are great and she's selling with an April bull calf at side so people can see what she does.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

To me being truthful and honest is where the ethics comes in.

I got no problem selling a cow with a conformational fault. darn near every one of em has something to pick on. thing is, i would point it out to the buyer.I have sold cows that would never raise me a good bull calf. great steers but not quality enough for bulls.
I use to call em bill payer cows and price em as commercials. would tell buyers that I was trying to breed something special and that while this cow will raise a good solid calf every year she is not going to raise something special. If the calf is standing there to back up what I say the sale is usually made.

ethics is honesty and integrity and being as good as your word and standing behind what you sell.

If the cow is sold as bred make darn sure she is pregnant or say that she has not been checked. I make my buyers wait til I can have the vet check em.

We fall calve and breed. working on getting to a 45 day season. Usually have a couple that fail to settle. we expose them to a bull for March calves.
I have one customer who calls me every summer to see if i am going to have any of those spring calvers. I tell him what I have and as soon as we get em examined he comes and picks out a couple. He then figures out if he needs to pay for them in December or in January. I hodl em til he is ready for em. He knows what they are and how they got that way and they are working for him.

i can understand that completely .. but at a sale barn you stand up a point out the obvious its liable to cost you over something that to most folk dont care ...and too the guy that don't care, you just saved him a hundred or so and he has you too thank for it

 

[Avalon]

If you are talking about sending them to the local "sale barn" I have no objection to anything running through.
My ethics will not allow me to misrepresent an animal for sale in any way. But historically the sale barn has asked me to bring any type cull I have and let the buyers sort them out. I can usually tell by the prices that the buers know which ones need to be slaughtered and which ones they can take for breeders. If they are going to err it will usually be on the safe side. Then when it comes to selling to individuals or at special sales? No I will not sell anything as a breeder that I would not have in my pasture.

 

[angus9259]

If you are talking about sending them to the local "sale barn" I have no objection to anything running through.
My ethics will not allow me to misrepresent an animal for sale in any way. But historically the sale barn has asked me to bring any type cull I have and let the buyers sort them out. I can usually tell by the prices that the buers know which ones need to be slaughtered and which ones they can take for breeders. If they are going to err it will usually be on the safe side. Then when it comes to selling to individuals or at special sales? No I will not sell anything as a breeder that I would not have in my pasture.

I agree with this philosphy 99% . . . but what about the cow that there's nothing really "wrong" with, you just don't like her?

 

[EAT BEEF]

If you are talking about sending them to the local "sale barn" I have no objection to anything running through.
My ethics will not allow me to misrepresent an animal for sale in any way. But historically the sale barn has asked me to bring any type cull I have and let the buyers sort them out. I can usually tell by the prices that the buers know which ones need to be slaughtered and which ones they can take for breeders. If they are going to err it will usually be on the safe side. Then when it comes to selling to individuals or at special sales? No I will not sell anything as a breeder that I would not have in my pasture.

I agree with this philosphy 99% . . . but what about the cow that there's nothing really "wrong" with, you just don't like her?

It's all opinions and we all know what those are like.It's the sale barn, sometimes it's better to just keep your mouth shut.I pretty much grew up at equipment auctions and sale barns and learned pretty fast it's just a game.Everything thing is there because someone wants or needs to get rid of it.It's the buyers job to figure out why.

 

[pdfangus]

i can understand that completely .. but at a sale barn you stand up a point out the obvious its liable to cost you over something that to most folk dont care ...and too the guy that don't care, you just saved him a hundred or so and he has you too thank for it

Well.....
the sale barn to me is where I would send something that I would not want anyone else to have.

I was talking about customers who come to the farm to buy cattle.

 

[Conagher]

Gonna take two females to the sale I don't want. One's a 4 year old. Raises a good calf, good milker and breeder, sound in every way - but high headed. Not aggressive at all - even with a calf, but flighty so she's hard to work. In a field she's fine.

Another is a bred heifer. Good disposition and sound, but more cow hocked than I like.

What, in your opinion, needs to go to the kill pen and when is it OK to sell the ones you don't want to someone else?

I think I tend to send more to the kill pen then I should when it would still make someone a decent cow.

IMHO, it depends on the "sale". If you are talking about the local, weekly sale barn then I think (at least in my area) it is pretty much accepted that mature cows coming through have some issues - and the price you receive typically reflects that. But if you are a seedstock producer and selling at a registered sale, then it is a different ballgame. I know some will disagree with me (as obvious by some of the cows I have picked up at these registered sales), but as a seedstock producer I think you have an obligation to the betterment of the breed. I have a list of registered breeders that sale their culls at registered sales; they do not get my bids anymore and I am pretty free with passing on that information, as are others - some on my list are from others experiences they past on to me.

Good luck!

 

[Loch Valley Fold]

We send our cows straight to the slaughterhouse this way we get a better price per head & there is no stress of being trucked all over the countryside before being killed. We book them in a week before they arrive around 11 o'clock & they are done after lunch. I must also mention these are cows that I wouldn't sell on to someone else. We cull on temperament, low milk production, confirmation. Ease of handling is a must for me if you should be able to safely walk through the herd without being kicked, chased, gored. It takes years to build up a reputation but it only takes 1 animal to ruin it. If I wouldn't buy a cow why would I expect someone else to?

 

[mtncows]

Someone wrote earlier that they would not even tolerate aggression in a cow with a new baby calf. I expect my cows to protect their new babies even from me. I just write the birthdate down in my book and tag the calf latter when you get the cattle up. You can write the tag number down after you have watched the calf nurse the cow.[/quote]
We do the same thing