"Carnavore's" view of the cattle business..

[Carnivore]

As long as they are locked up in our pastures ,they deserve the opportunity to be taken care of to the best point that we can provide.

Right up to the point when we kill them.

 

[Carnivore]

"have forced repeated pregnancy after repeated pregnancy on that cow"
Forced to breed?????? My cows are like call girls at an OPEC oil conference. ;-) Never had to force any of em. Your cows must be more virtuous than mine Carnivore. Mine must be of low moral fiber -like me. If you do in fact have a mgt problem on your place I think it is that you don't work hard enough. I don't mean to be dirsrespectful. I say this because if you were busy you wouldn't have had the time to watch nature take its course. A lot of times you may not like what you see. So had you been at work you would have either come back and found a dead calf or a momma with her calf. I do believe that nature will take its course if we just leave things alone and that 95% of all calves will be born healthy as long as they are presented properly and we STAY OUT OF IT!!!

Nothing tees me off worse than having to go pull or cut half a calf out of someones cow because "I thought I was helping, I thought the calf was stuck." Good grief, give the animal some credit. She knows what she is doing.

Guess I was referring to the AI concept. There are folks who, as soon as the cow is ready, shoves semen into her so she can produce an animal that they will kill. Then, they do it again, and again untll that animal's birth canal is used up, then they kill her and grind her up for hamburger.

I was busy. It was only when I returned home that I found the problem and figured I could get some useful advice.

I agree that nature will take it's couse if we leave it alone, but it appears this was one of those 5%.

 

[Carnivore]

After reading all this I can't help but wonder who won.

Federal Ammunition. Other than that, everyone lost.

 

[Carnivore]

#1) I take it as far as I want, since I own them, they are my property. Any cattleman here is going to kill all his animals at some time. I choose when to kill mine.

#2) Stupid question. Not deserving an answer.

#3 + #4) You are right. I don't vaccine any of my cows, nor use antibotics. I am prepared to loose the weak animals, I don't want cows I have to baby to keep them alive. BTW, anyone raising "organic" beef does the same thing, it's not that abnormal.

#5) Don't have any kids. Do have air conditioning, how stupid of a Q is that?

#6) No Q, so no answer. It's okay to vent though...

#7) Save them so you can kill them later. I have better things to do with my life than try to save sick cows. I have made my living saving "peoples" lives.

#8) If you want to doctor your animals so you can kill them a year two later, that's you choice.

Sounds a little like Mein Kampf...

Alice

Guess you raise your cows for pets, right?

 

[Alice]

#1) I take it as far as I want, since I own them, they are my property. Any cattleman here is going to kill all his animals at some time. I choose when to kill mine.

#2) Stupid question. Not deserving an answer.

#3 + #4) You are right. I don't vaccine any of my cows, nor use antibotics. I am prepared to loose the weak animals, I don't want cows I have to baby to keep them alive. BTW, anyone raising "organic" beef does the same thing, it's not that abnormal.

#5) Don't have any kids. Do have air conditioning, how stupid of a Q is that?

#6) No Q, so no answer. It's okay to vent though...

#7) Save them so you can kill them later. I have better things to do with my life than try to save sick cows. I have made my living saving "peoples" lives.

#8) If you want to doctor your animals so you can kill them a year two later, that's you choice.

Sounds a little like Mein Kampf...

Alice

Guess you raise your cows for pets, right?

Don't raise 'em for pets...altho two have turned out that way. I'm not ashamed to say so.

I also take grand care of my pets...my avitar is one of them. I took on the responsibility of them...and I intend to uphold that responsibility.

I've also had to put my pets down because of suffering...hurts, but I've done it. So, the way I look at it, your Guess you raise your cows for pets, right? is rather beside the point.

You're only the strong should survive is, in my opinion, Mein Kampf-ish...and somewhat Kafkaesquian. Sad, really...

Alice

 

[Angus Guy]

I'm sorry but I'm alittle confused.
What do you do with the beef you raise?

 

[Anonymous]

I think everybody should just let Carnivore be...next time he needs to know if every black cow in the world is a black angus, he can ask one of the kids at the local playground, they should be able to answer him. :lol:

Carnivore, just because you made an a$$ of yourself don't mean you have to start making threats and start saying you are going to "find out who is spineless"...well I am an honest man, and I can't say for sure if you're spineless, but I can say that you're an idiot, if I have a calf that isn't doing so well at birth, then i'd sure as heck help it out, that calf is going to be putting money in my pocket...maybe you're just too lazy to do a little bit of extra work with the calf, I aint sure

and by the way, what part of "natural selection" involves shooting the animal? Is that somehow natural? Next time you make an excuse on why you are too lazy to help a calf, don't use the natural selection excuse, then shoot the animal, it kind of defies the point of being natural :roll:

You might want to sit back and rethink your outlook on the cattle business for a while, get your mind and your excuses back in line

Have a good day

 

[WORANCH]

turn all the cows loose, and I would hazzard a guess that within a century, there wouldn't be a cow alive in the U.S.,

Longhorns made it without the help of anyone , so I don't think your right on this point.

 

[Carnivore]

turn all the cows loose, and I would hazzard a guess that within a century, there wouldn't be a cow alive in the U.S.,

Longhorns made it without the help of anyone , so I don't think your right on this point.

You may be right. Educate me on longhorns. Were they a product of selective breeding, or naturally occuring in the world before humans started raising cattle?

 

[Carnivore]

I'm sorry but I'm alittle confused.
What do you do with the beef you raise?

If you are asking me, I kill them and eat them. If I have too much in the freezer and it is time to kill one, I sell it at a good price to friends of mine who want pure, without chemicals grass fed beef.

 

[Carnivore]

I think everybody should just let Carnivore be...next time he needs to know if every black cow in the world is a black angus, he can ask one of the kids at the local playground, they should be able to answer him. :lol:

Carnivore, just because you made an a$$ of yourself don't mean you have to start making threats and start saying you are going to "find out who is spineless"...well I am an honest man, and I can't say for sure if you're spineless, but I can say that you're an idiot, if I have a calf that isn't doing so well at birth, then i'd sure as heck help it out, that calf is going to be putting money in my pocket...maybe you're just too lazy to do a little bit of extra work with the calf, I aint sure

and by the way, what part of "natural selection" involves shooting the animal? Is that somehow natural? Next time you make an excuse on why you are too lazy to help a calf, don't use the natural selection excuse, then shoot the animal, it kind of defies the point of being natural :roll:

You might want to sit back and rethink your outlook on the cattle business for a while, get your mind and your excuses back in line

Have a good day

Okay Farmboy, I'll answer your flame.

First, the black angus post was a tongue in cheek way of trying to understand the world of Certified Black Angus beef at the market, and some reference to any animal that was black hided was assumed to be a Certified Black Angus. As far as that goes, I am guility of starting a thread about black cows.

Secondly, if some wants to publically call me spineless, then if I call him on it, what concern is it of yours?

Thirdly, is the financial aspect. The day, (yesterday) I made a cool grand doing what I do for a living. Trying to save a $200 calf at the expense of a thousand dollars isn't good economics. I suspect even you can figure that one out. It was not about being lazy.

A couple of years ago, I had a first year cow that abandoned a calf at birth. Again, I had to work that day, but because the calf was born sometime mid night, it was discovered bawling outside our bedroom window. Our pasture is about 20 yards from our house.

The calf had been kicked out of the pasture through the electric fence, and at about 4:30 am, I was awoken by it's bawling.

Both my wife and I went out, and tried to get the mother to take the calf, but to no avail. I still had to work that day, (at 10:00 am). so, I had 5.5 hours to solve this problem. I figured that it was my responsibility, and this being February and a clear cold day, the calf was really cold. The afterbirth had dried, and it was bawling and shivering.

So, I became it's mother, (except for the nursing, of course). I took the little girl in my lap, and held it with a towel over it until it quit shivering. In the meantime, I sent my wife to town and as soon as the feed store was open, she bought colostrum and a feeding bottle, and as soon as we could, we got some nutrition in it.

In addition, I called a friend who has 5 boys, (age 14-6) and asked her if she would like a baby calf for her boys to raise. She has a little property, but the fencing was really bad. But, since the fencing would not be an issue for a few months, she decided to take it.

(By the time it was all over, I spent about $200 getting the calf it's first meals, buying addiitonal milk replacer for the friend, (who doesn't have a bunch of money), and fencing for their small pasture. I did it because I felt responsible for it, and don't regret it for a moment.)

Anyway, I then took the calf up in my arms and helped deliver it to their little shed they cleared out to take the calf, doing all of this in the 5.5 hours before I had to go work an 8-hour day. So my friend, don't call me lazy. If I was lazy, I would have given it the same fate that morning as it sufferend two years later, that being a bullet in the head.

Next...Natural selection, in the extreme means that the human predator is superior to the day old calf, and if it shoots said calf, well, the strongest killed the weakest.

Lastly, I am always amused when some one gives one attention by viture of telling everyone else to ignore him. Now who is the idiot?

 

[Anonymous]

I think everybody should just let Carnivore be...next time he needs to know if every black cow in the world is a black angus, he can ask one of the kids at the local playground, they should be able to answer him. :lol:

Carnivore, just because you made an a$$ of yourself don't mean you have to start making threats and start saying you are going to "find out who is spineless"...well I am an honest man, and I can't say for sure if you're spineless, but I can say that you're an idiot, if I have a calf that isn't doing so well at birth, then i'd sure as heck help it out, that calf is going to be putting money in my pocket...maybe you're just too lazy to do a little bit of extra work with the calf, I aint sure

and by the way, what part of "natural selection" involves shooting the animal? Is that somehow natural? Next time you make an excuse on why you are too lazy to help a calf, don't use the natural selection excuse, then shoot the animal, it kind of defies the point of being natural :roll:

You might want to sit back and rethink your outlook on the cattle business for a while, get your mind and your excuses back in line

Have a good day

Okay Farmboy, I'll answer your flame.

First, the black angus post was a tongue in cheek way of trying to understand the world of Certified Black Angus beef at the market, and some reference to any animal that was black hided was assumed to be a Certified Black Angus. As far as that goes, I am guility of starting a thread about black cows.

Secondly, if some wants to publically call me spineless, then if I call him on it, what concern is it of yours?

Thirdly, is the financial aspect. The day, (yesterday) I made a cool grand doing what I do for a living. Trying to save a $200 calf at the expense of a thousand dollars isn't good economics. I suspect even you can figure that one out. It was not about being lazy.

A couple of years ago, I had a first year cow that abandoned a calf at birth. Again, I had to work that day, but because the calf was born sometime mid night, it was discovered bawling outside our bedroom window. Our pasture is about 20 yards from our house.

The calf had been kicked out of the pasture through the electric fence, and at about 4:30 am, I was awoken by it's bawling.

Both my wife and I went out, and tried to get the mother to take the calf, but to no avail. I still had to work that day, (at 10:00 am). so, I had 5.5 hours to solve this problem. I figured that it was my responsibility, and this being February and a clear cold day, the calf was really cold. The afterbirth had dried, and it was bawling and shivering.

So, I became it's mother, (except for the nursing, of course). I took the little girl in my lap, and held it with a towel over it until it quit shivering. In the meantime, I sent my wife to town and as soon as the feed store was open, she bought colostrum and a feeding bottle, and as soon as we could, we got some nutrition in it.

In addition, I called a friend who has 5 boys, (age 14-6) and asked her if she would like a baby calf for her boys to raise. She has a little property, but the fencing was really bad. But, since the fencing would not be an issue for a few months, she decided to take it.

(By the time it was all over, I spent about $200 getting the calf it's first meals, buying addiitonal milk replacer for the friend, (who doesn't have a bunch of money), and fencing for their small pasture. I did it because I felt responsible for it, and don't regret it for a moment.)

Anyway, I then took the calf up in my arms and helped deliver it to their little shed they cleared out to take the calf, doing all of this in the 5.5 hours before I had to go work an 8-hour day. So my friend, don't call me lazy. If I was lazy, I would have given it the same fate that morning as it sufferend two years later, that being a bullet in the head.

Next...Natural selection, in the extreme means that the human predator is superior to the day old calf, and if it shoots said calf, well, the strongest killed the weakest.

Lastly, I am always amused when some one gives one attention by viture of telling everyone else to ignore him. Now who is the idiot?

I do not understand why you wrote me a whole story about taking care of a calf, that's part of the business, everyone on this site has probably done it a few times their own selves...You act like you have done something Godly by putting a calf in a blanket, then giving it away to a friend :roll: ...if you haven't already noticed, I think your natural selection "theory" is BS, so i'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to use it as an excuse, first you wouldn't take care of the calf because of natural selection, you were just going to let it die, then you shot it because of natural selection, make up your mind, you cant use it as an excuse for everything, since you wouldn't take care of the calf, shooting it was the right thing to do...and about the spineless quote, calling someone out does not make you a bada$$, I know you think it makes you look cool but I think we'd all agree it just makes you look stupid

and by the way, I believe it is plain to see who the idiot is, but we'll just let other men and women on this site decide that for themselves

Have a good day

 

[Chuck]

 

[auctionboy]

Cattle are very self sufficent in the correct enviroment. Not to long ago there were wild cattle down south. If left on there own they could survive.

Except for the fact that us humans have also removed the natural predators from the environment too. Given enough time, though, the natural predators would come back and kill all the cows. For example, about 8 years ago cougar hunting in WA state was very challenging, one had to use dogs. But, since the state banned hunting cougars with dogs, they are making a pretty successful comeback. Ban the hunting of all predators by man, turn all the cows loose, and I would hazzard a guess that within a century, there wouldn't be a cow alive in the U.S., and there would be a whole bunch of cougars and wolves preying on those humans who refuse to protect themselves.

I don't care about your what ifs! All cattle would be gone in one hundred years? Have you ever approached a wild cow with a calf? Everything you say doesn't make any sense in this qoute above. You don't make any sense! You are someone who was wrong and wont admit it and is deperatilly trying to make them self right and digging a deeper whole with every word.

 

[Carnivore]

I don't care about your what ifs! All cattle would be gone in one hundred years? Have you ever approached a wild cow with a calf? Everything you say doesn't make any sense in this qoute above. You don't make any sense! You are someone who was wrong and wont admit it and is deperatilly trying to make them self right and digging a deeper whole with every word.

Auction Boy.

The human predator uses tools to hunt and kill. I would not have any fear of approaching any wild cow with a calf (if there were such a thing), with the tool of choice.

In addition, any cow with a calf is no match for a hungry cougar, or a pack of wolves.

I admit that I was wrong by allowing the cow to bred by it's son, creating the inbred calf who was not viable, despite the advice from the vet who said the bull calf was likely not a viable reproducer.

I also admit that I would not have had yesterdays problem if I would have simply let the cow reject the bull calf two years ago, but my nurturing side told me to intervene.

So, explain Auctionboy, what exactly did I do that was wrong?

 

[Carnivore]

[
I do not understand why you wrote me a whole story about taking care of a calf, that's part of the business, everyone on this site has probably done it a few times their own selves...You act like you have done something Godly by putting a calf in a blanket, then giving it away to a friend :roll: ...if you haven't already noticed, I think your natural selection "theory" is BS, so i'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to use it as an excuse, first you wouldn't take care of the calf because of natural selection, you were just going to let it die, then you shot it because of natural selection, make up your mind, you cant use it as an excuse for everything, since you wouldn't take care of the calf, shooting it was the right thing to do...and about the spineless quote, calling someone out does not make you a bada$$, I know you think it makes you look cool but I think we'd all agree it just makes you look stupid

and by the way, I believe it is plain to see who the idiot is, but we'll just let other men and women on this site decide that for themselves

Have a good day

I told you the story because you called me lazy for not wanting to help a calf. For your edification, here is the original post:

"One of my cows had a calf this morning, and the heifer calf hasn't been able to stand for about 10 hours now, does not look very viable, and to compound matters, the mother keeps knocking it down when it tries to get up.

The calf looks pre-mature by a month or so, as it is smaller than the 3 other calves we have had. It has had no milk, and I am not going to bottle feed it, (perhaps cruel, but I believe in natural selection). My question at this point to the experienced folks here, is does the calf have a chance, or should I just go put her down and end her misery?"

Understanding what I originally said, because I believed it was pre-mature, and because the mother was rejecting it, and the fact that the little girl could not even stand up on it's own, I wasn't going to bottle feed it. Perhaps the "natural selection" verbage was wrong, as it is obvious that there is nothing natural about raising cattle, I likely should have said I don't believe in throwing good money after bad.

I also never said I was just going to let it die. I was asking for advice to see if anyone here thought it might be viable still, as I never had a calf that couldn't stand up after 10 hours. I never said I was just going to let it die.

The idiot here is the guy who cannot even comprehend simple English.

 

[Beefy]

i think if we freed all the cows RIGHT NOW that in the future there would still be cows assuming we didnt pave all the pastures and prairies and build condos and walmarts there. i dont think the panthers would eat every single cow. population dynamics.


anyway, turns out the calf was deformed right? so it was going to die anyway. he just sped the natural selection up a little, lol. i'm not sure if putting a calf back in the pasture constitues rescueing it. probably not. most likely it would have gotten back in on its on or been adopted by some yuppies or moved to california to star in commercials or if it was here some good samaritan would have put it in the nearest pasture that it didnt belong in (found out how the extras kept getting in! lol). anyway, i doubt it would have starved to death or been eaten by a panther. maybe hit by a car though.


out of curiosity, these animals arent shorthorns are they?

 

[Carnivore]

You're only the strong should survive is, in my opinion, Mein Kampf-ish...and somewhat Kafkaesquian. Sad, really...

Alice

Well Alice, I have never read Mein Kampf, but I understand that it was Hitler's plans about making a super race of humans.

From everything I have read here over the last several months, that is exactly what the cattle breeders are trying to do with selective breeding.

I have no qualms about trying to breed into my little herd a little more survival instinct, to make them viable without the aid of chemicals or the human hand.

If I had felt the little calf had a chance of survival, I would have tried to help it out, but ONLY so I could eat it later. The original post was about trying to figure out if it had a chance.

Here's the deal. You somehow think it is okay to put a bullet in the head of a cow as long as you give it a loving two years before it meets it's fate. I frankly don't see a difference between putting a bullet in a 10 hour old calf, or a two year old steer.

Probably the biggest difference between us, though, is that I will do the job myself, whereas you will ask someone else do the dirty work, justifying your act by telling yourself that you gave it a good life, (until you had it killed).

 

[Carnivore]

iout of curiosity, these animals arent shorthorns are they?

BINGO!!!

Give that man a cupie doll!!! Acutally, Shorthorn and Angus cross. Mother is half and half. What do I need to know about shorthorns?

 

[Carnivore]

i i'm not sure if putting a calf back in the pasture constitues rescueing it. probably not. most likely it would have gotten back in on its on or been adopted by some yuppies or moved to california to star in commercials or if it was here some good samaritan would have put it in the nearest pasture that it didnt belong in (found out how the extras kept getting in! lol). anyway, i doubt it would have starved to death or been eaten by a panther. maybe hit by a car though.

Actually, I am rural enough that it would have been attacked and eaten by the coyotes that night. We don't have yuppies near me, and the only Panthers seen here are on Sunday morning, (or are they Jaguars?)

A may be completely wrong about my hypothesis regarding cows and survival in the wild, but given 8 years here in WA and Cougars eating everything in sight, (like dogs, cats, etc), and the fact that the Blacktail deer population in my neck of the woods is about half it was 10 years ago, I think the cows would have a tough time of it, and the Cougars would be fat and plentiful.