"Carnavore's" view of the cattle business..

[Green Creek]

Seems to me that everyone picked out a portion of the original post to try and wrap their mind around. Personally, I read and reread and still cannot decide the point. Obviously I am missing some historical background although I think I am being generous here.

Si

 

[AngusLimoX]

Carnivore ??

Reach around with both hands and feel the centre of your back.

Is there a hard column there?

Some call it backbone, others spine.

Change your name. Someone else deserves to have that name.

In the real world they would take it from you.

And in this world , you just got way more attention than you deserve.

 

[Texan]

It's a good thing Tom Lasater never had to post a question on the Cattle Today boards. You people probably would have run him out of the cattle business. :lol:

 

[Beefy]

i dont really think natural selection just takes the day off when humans decide to run things. true, we skew the results with our management practices but i suspect natural selection is still at work behind the scenes.

 

[Beefy]

It's a good thing Tom Lasater never had to post a question on the Cattle Today boards. You people probably would have run him out of the cattle business. :lol:

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[Anonymous]

hey...I guess i'm not the only one that thinks that natural selection crap is a bunch of BS...but watch out, might get called "unclassy" for it, from a certain someone :roll:

 

[Jogeephus]

"have forced repeated pregnancy after repeated pregnancy on that cow"
Forced to breed?????? My cows are like call girls at an OPEC oil conference. ;-) Never had to force any of em. Your cows must be more virtuous than mine Carnivore. Mine must be of low moral fiber -like me. If you do in fact have a mgt problem on your place I think it is that you don't work hard enough. I don't mean to be dirsrespectful. I say this because if you were busy you wouldn't have had the time to watch nature take its course. A lot of times you may not like what you see. So had you been at work you would have either come back and found a dead calf or a momma with her calf. I do believe that nature will take its course if we just leave things alone and that 95% of all calves will be born healthy as long as they are presented properly and we STAY OUT OF IT!!!

Nothing tees me off worse than having to go pull or cut half a calf out of someones cow because "I thought I was helping, I thought the calf was stuck." Good grief, give the animal some credit. She knows what she is doing.

 

[Wewild]

After reading all this I can't help but wonder who won.

 

[Carnivore]

Riled responses, you think?

I may have used a poor choice of words. But, I still don't get why one is supposed to, on one hand, baby these cows, hand feed them, give them shots, enemas, stick you hand up their you know what to palpatate them, (don't forget squeezing the crap out of them while you do it), then when they are in the prime of life, kill them and ground them into hamburger.

How cruel is that?

 

[dun]

How cruel is that?

I don;t understand where the cruel part is. Taking proper care of an animal then eating it just makes sense to me

dun

 

[Carnivore]

Cattle are very self sufficent in the correct enviroment. Not to long ago there were wild cattle down south. If left on there own they could survive.

Except for the fact that us humans have also removed the natural predators from the environment too. Given enough time, though, the natural predators would come back and kill all the cows. For example, about 8 years ago cougar hunting in WA state was very challenging, one had to use dogs. But, since the state banned hunting cougars with dogs, they are making a pretty successful comeback. Ban the hunting of all predators by man, turn all the cows loose, and I would hazzard a guess that within a century, there wouldn't be a cow alive in the U.S., and there would be a whole bunch of cougars and wolves preying on those humans who refuse to protect themselves.

 

[Carnivore]

Ifan animal is in distress you figure out why and correct it. Bullet or pull it out of the mud, whatever. Observation of aproblem from a distance without finding out the cause just doesn't make sense.
dun

I kind of thought that is what I did. When the calf was born I was heading off to work, and figured mom would take care of her little calf.

10 hours later, when I returned home and found that the calf still was in distress, wasn't up and hadn't received the colostrum it needed, I came on this board to ask for some quick advice, as to whether or not the calf had a chance of making it. If not, I would put it down.

I would rather kill the calf it it cannot survive on it's own, than bottle feed it. Take it out of the gene pool, so the herd will get stronger. WTF. Unless it is a pet, you are going to kill it anyway. I felt no worse or better about putting a bullet into the calf's head, as I have when I killed our other cattle for our own consumption. (As a matter of fact, I don't enjoy it, as I am sure most sane people don't, but at least I don't sanitize it by shipping them off to the slaughter house, with my last memories of dear old Bessie being alive and healty. I thank the lord for the bounty he has provided through my hands, and cause the least suffering as possible.

 

[Carnivore]

#1) I take it as far as I want, since I own them, they are my property. Any cattleman here is going to kill all his animals at some time. I choose when to kill mine.

#2) Stupid question. Not deserving an answer.

#3 + #4) You are right. I don't vaccine any of my cows, nor use antibotics. I am prepared to loose the weak animals, I don't want cows I have to baby to keep them alive. BTW, anyone raising "organic" beef does the same thing, it's not that abnormal.

#5) Don't have any kids. Do have air conditioning, how stupid of a Q is that?

#6) No Q, so no answer. It's okay to vent though...

#7) Save them so you can kill them later. I have better things to do with my life than try to save sick cows. I have made my living saving "peoples" lives.

#8) If you want to doctor your animals so you can kill them a year two later, that's you choice.

 

[Carnivore]

as long as i dont see cattle misstreated or starving on your 40 acres what you do is none of my dam business

I say we should do our best in saving any animal, because we have taken them under our wing, when it's impossible for it to have quality of life, then let it go.

I suspect you actually do not raise cattle for human consumption just as pets. Because, if you did raise cattle for human consumption, you don't feed them all their natural lives, you kill them at thier prime.

 

[Alice]

Ban the hunting of all predators by man, turn all the cows loose, and I would hazzard a guess that within a century, there wouldn't be a cow alive in the U.S., and there would be a whole bunch of cougars and wolves preying on those humans who refuse to protect themselves.

That's a rather broad statement...and somewhat of a stretch.

Alice

 

[Carnivore]

if i had 10.000 acre and lived 150 years ago that way might work. but i would be doing it out of nesessity not choice. dont see how its gonna work on forty acre without outside influance that means its no longer natural . so the way i see it he is mistreating his animals no other way too look at it

Mistreating my animals? They have all the food they can eat, clean fresh well water, and trees galore to snuggle under when it rains.

As previously stated, I prefer to kill my cows if necessary to eliminate poor blood stock, rather than nurse them along and perpetuate a weak heard.

All I did is let a mother cow have a calf, and that calf wasn't strong enough to survive. I asked this board for advice as to if it might still have a chance, as soon as I got home from work, as I value the experience of many people here. When the collective wisdom that I chose to listen to told me to put it down, I did.

 

[Carnivore]

On the other note, I offer my sympathies to what you went through with your father. No one will ever know what you went through, and probably still are going through, unless they have gone through that.

Thank-you.

 

[Alice]

#1) I take it as far as I want, since I own them, they are my property. Any cattleman here is going to kill all his animals at some time. I choose when to kill mine.

#2) Stupid question. Not deserving an answer.

#3 + #4) You are right. I don't vaccine any of my cows, nor use antibotics. I am prepared to loose the weak animals, I don't want cows I have to baby to keep them alive. BTW, anyone raising "organic" beef does the same thing, it's not that abnormal.

#5) Don't have any kids. Do have air conditioning, how stupid of a Q is that?

#6) No Q, so no answer. It's okay to vent though...

#7) Save them so you can kill them later. I have better things to do with my life than try to save sick cows. I have made my living saving "peoples" lives.

#8) If you want to doctor your animals so you can kill them a year two later, that's you choice.

Sounds a little like Mein Kampf...

Alice

 

[Carnivore]

There are extremes but I think there is a happy median that everyone over looks once in a while. I will feed a calf and give it shots and the same with a down cow but at some point we have to say enough is enough and stop interfering with nature.

I see a kindred spirit here.

 

[Carnivore]

Carnivore ??

Reach around with both hands and feel the centre of your back.

Is there a hard column there?

Some call it backbone, others spine.

Change your name. Someone else deserves to have that name.

In the real world they would take it from you.

And in this world , you just got way more attention than you deserve.

AngusLimoX:

What is spineless is sitting behind the safe computor and making snide remarks about someone over a thousand miles away. If you ever make it to Chehalis WA, please let me know ahead of time. I will be happy to meet you, and either discuss the issue in person with a beer in hand, or see who is the spineless one. Your choice my friend.

(In case you didn't figure it out, I am calling you out).