Can you spot the fault?

[KNERSIE]

 

[dun]

Could it be the peculiar bulge on his flank/lower round area?

 

[KNERSIE]

Could it be the peculiar bulge on his flank/lower round area?

I think that is just hair, I was referring to a much more serious fault, a fault that would have shown itself in the bull's performance had he not been on a grain buffet

 

[dun]

Could it be the peculiar bulge on his flank/lower round area?

I think that is just hair, I was referring to a much more serious fault, a fault that would have shown itself in the bull's performance had he not been on a grain buffet

Then is must be the underbite/overshot jaw

 

[KNERSIE]

Could it be the peculiar bulge on his flank/lower round area?

I think that is just hair, I was referring to a much more serious fault, a fault that would have shown itself in the bull's performance had he not been on a grain buffet

Then is must be the underbite/overshot jaw

I must have made it too easy. ;-) Its the undershot lower jaw. There is no way his incisors can bite on the dental pad and he would have been worthless on short grass in a grazing only system.

 

[Bonsman]

Could it be the peculiar bulge on his flank/lower round area?

I think that is just hair, I was referring to a much more serious fault, a fault that would have shown itself in the bull's performance had he not been on a grain buffet

Grain buffet...........now that is funny.

 

[Keren]

thanks for that knersie, I will admit I didnt spot it ...

 

[iowahawkeyes]

just for curiousity sake, is an underbite or overbite worse or the same?

 

[Keren]

just for curiousity sake, is an underbite or overbite worse or the same?

Going on my experience with the goats, an undershot (lower jaw too short) goat does more poorly than an overshot (lower jaw too long) animal. But I dont know if its the same deal with cattle. I'm also finding that in a lot of cases overbites in goats can be corrected with a proper mineral program, and a bit of time to grow out of it. Weird. I never thought it would happen. But I put a heap of kids (almost 1/3 of the doe kid crop) into the cull paddock for overbites at weaning, realised I'd not given anyone minerals for a long time, put minerals out for everyone including the culls, and do you know there is not one single overbite in those little does. In contrast the underbites we've had dont seem to respond to mineral treatment.

 

[cowman30]

Could it be the peculiar bulge on his flank/lower round area?

I think that is just hair, I was referring to a much more serious fault, a fault that would have shown itself in the bull's performance had he not been on a grain buffet

Looks a little light in the front end to me it dont match the back half of his body. It took me three looks at the picture and then I spotted the over bite.

 

[VanC]

Then is must be the underbite/overshot jaw

I must have made it too easy. ;-) Its the undershot lower jaw. There is no way his incisors can bite on the dental pad and he would have been worthless on short grass in a grazing only system.

Yeah.......... but........uh......we were recently told by an expert that only an animal's EPD's are important. An undershot lower jaw is just part of the "wrapping paper", and should have no bearing on whether the animal will be productive or not. I'm really confused. :lol2:

 

[KNERSIE]

just for curiousity sake, is an underbite or overbite worse or the same?

I really don't know, both are quite rare in cattle and if there is a fault its usually not very severe and you have to open the mouth to really see it. You seldom see it as clearly as is the case with this bull.

I have seen more undershot jaws than overshot jaws in my life. The old bulldog calves in the pony era all had severely overshot jaws, but I've only seen that in photos.

 

[KNERSIE]

Then is must be the underbite/overshot jaw

I must have made it too easy. ;-) Its the undershot lower jaw. There is no way his incisors can bite on the dental pad and he would have been worthless on short grass in a grazing only system.

Yeah.......... but........uh......we were recently told by an expert that only an animal's EPD's are important. An undershot lower jaw is just part of the "wrapping paper", and should have no bearing on whether the animal will be productive or not. I'm really confused. :lol2:

Its almost like a fruit cake with marzipan icing. I love the fruit cake but if I had to eat through the marzipan I'll never again eat fruit cake in my life.

 

[iowahawkeyes]

Wasn't it Power Plant, an old, old, Maine Anjou bull produced calves with underbites? You especially saw this when it was double bred.

 

[grannysoo]

Yeah.......... but........uh......we were recently told by an expert that only an animal's EPD's are important. An undershot lower jaw is just part of the "wrapping paper", and should have no bearing on whether the animal will be productive or not. I'm really confused. :lol2:

That's right. You don't even have to see a cow to know if it's any good or not. All you need are them there numbers that everyone talks about so much. Cows are cows, but the numbers do not lie. Those numbers would not have even pointed out that he was the wrong color either... :lol2:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

But, the big question is --- why would anyone spend time and money on this "reject" bull? Obviously, someone is promoting him for breeding/semen sales? That's sad.

 

[alacattleman]

just for curiousity sake, is an underbite or overbite worse or the same?

I really don't know, both are quite rare in cattle and if there is a fault its usually not very severe and you have to open the mouth to really see it. You seldom see it as clearly as is the case with this bull.

I have seen more undershot jaws than overshot jaws in my life. The old bulldog calves in the pony era all had severely overshot jaws, but I've only seen that in photos.

not that either are good... but given the way cattle graze, looks like a overshot jaw would be better as far as the grazing goes just guessin' though ...wonder did he come from linebreeding

 

[KNERSIE]

just for curiousity sake, is an underbite or overbite worse or the same?

I really don't know, both are quite rare in cattle and if there is a fault its usually not very severe and you have to open the mouth to really see it. You seldom see it as clearly as is the case with this bull.

I have seen more undershot jaws than overshot jaws in my life. The old bulldog calves in the pony era all had severely overshot jaws, but I've only seen that in photos.

not that either are good... but given the way cattle graze, looks like a overshot jaw would be better as far as the grazing goes just guessin' though ...wonder did he come from linebreeding

No, poor selection.

If you know hereford pedigrees you'll notice that there is some common blood on both sides of the pedigree, but no he isn't tightly linebred. If you back far enough in the pedigree you'll find Keynote 20X as the common denominator, but its so far back that you can't blame linebreeding
http://cattlevisions.com/Hereford/STRMTheUmpire.php

 

[Herefords.US]

I really don't know, both are quite rare in cattle and if there is a fault its usually not very severe and you have to open the mouth to really see it. You seldom see it as clearly as is the case with this bull.

I have seen more undershot jaws than overshot jaws in my life. The old bulldog calves in the pony era all had severely overshot jaws, but I've only seen that in photos.

not that either are good... but given the way cattle graze, looks like a overshot jaw would be better as far as the grazing goes just guessin' though ...wonder did he come from linebreeding

No, poor selection.

If you know hereford pedigrees you'll notice that there is some common blood on both sides of the pedigree, but no he isn't tightly linebred. If you back far enough in the pedigree you'll find Keynote 20X as the common denominator, but its so far back that you can't blame linebreeding
http://cattlevisions.com/Hereford/STRMTheUmpire.php

It's probably the Simmental infusion that's lurking back behind the Summit bull(traces back to Titan 23D) that caused it! :lol: :lol: :lol:

And it could just be a bad job of Photoshopping!

George

 

[KNERSIE]

It's probably the Simmental infusion that's lurking back behind the Summit bull(traces back to Titan 23D) that caused it!

I think we'll have to go with that, sounds like a perfectly believable cause :lol: