can you explain why you raise the cattle you do?

[plumber_greg]

Kathie, I used to send my calves to a feedlot and sell on grids. WHen the margins got tight, I started selling feeders. I know your customers like your beef, but it's a lot harder than you think to raise CAB certified beef. The most I ever sold was 29 out of a pen of 100 steers and heifers, all black, all mostly angus. That was a good year, usually is around 20%. I've read about and seen steaks that people will say are high choice that they have raised but in reality most would be select grade beef, but still tastes good. I haven't seen your carcasses, so I don't really know, but I question your statement,"(and I have no doubt they would--but we don't sell to packers). It's a lot harder than you think to sell CAB.
respectfully gs

 

[Caustic Burno]

Other than other breeds going black, i dont see how the CAB hurts other cattle breeds. Yeah, you cant pass CAB if you dont meet color requirements, but if your cattle are of good quality, they still have a very good market. Just not with the CAB. i guess yall are talking about docking for color at sales? My question is, do you blame AAA for marketing their breed, or do you blame your breed for not marketing good enough?
Everyone knows hereford was the standard back in the day, until angus tore it up with marketing, hereford breed decided not to market their cattle as much. Now angus is the standard. When another breed decides to outmarket angus, they will be the standard. Its business. Raising cattle is a business. And like any good salesman the angus has pitched their product.
Yes, i agree that it may be a tad of deceit since they arent all angus cattle, but its quality of beef too. And AAA does have programs that do require progeny from at least registered sires. The prices of cattle are so high right now, i dont see what everyone is complaining about. EVERYONE is getting good prices! Enjoy it! We all serve consumers one way or another. Therefore i think we all share a common goal. Provide people with good quality beef, and make a little money doing it, regardless of breed or programs.

I agree it was pure genius in the begining as they were the only "black cattle", what he AAA didn't see was dang near every other breed turn black overnight to chase the premium. Over a period of time it has become a fraud due to the other breeds turning black and Angus didn't change the rules and IMO have set us all up to take a huge PR hit.
I agree with on Hereford I was a long standing member in the assocation and quit them this year for lack of vision and not spending the money to market the cattle. I had many conversations that fell on deaf ears. Two years ago there were two long term Hereford seedstock producers in my area today none. I have people call every week looking for bulls and can't believe I don't have any, they ask about my running buddy who was breeder and tell them he has went commerical as well. For the first time in over twenty years there are no Hereford bulls standing in my pasture. Neighbors are running the last three I raised. All I could see they were doing with the dues and registration fees was supporting a few workers and the rest who know's. There registering process went to a money making scheme IMO. These cattle associations haven't been our friends in all cases and have done a lot of harm in others going from purebred to fullblood anything to make a dollar for the association . Some of these associations have got to the point they will take any cow as long as one of their bulls drove by in a trailer.
We have let this happen the members that paid the dues to support them.
The whole mess started when it came about chasing black hide and has went straight downhill every sense.
We have created a generation of cattlemen that are color bound not quality and think if it has papers it is quality.

 

[Anguscattle]

Caustic,

I pretty much agree. But i still think the hereford has a lot to offer. They just need to market more.

 

[SRBeef]

I think the Hereford association is one of the few if not only association working to keep the bloodlines pure and true. their new requirement to have DNA samples on all bulls born after Jan 1 of last year before progeny can be registered is a good one. It adds some cost but I think will be proved worthwhile in the long run.

Caustic, I understand why some breeders got out of Herefords under the pressure to go black (I appreciate the admission of a "little deceit" above) but even a small, commercial, freezer beef guy like me is getting calls looking for a Hereford bull this year.

I think the "black" house of cards is about to crash down. Many buyers now realize it's the quality of the beef, not the hide color, that is important.

Folks are seeing the benefits of heterosis and looking for good Hereford bulls to put on all these black cows around. Your neighbors may wish they were still in the Hereford bull business.

Jim

 

[Anguscattle]

Cant beat a good old angus hereford X, with a little brangus thrown in for the heat tolerance! Dang they look good! Personal opinion of course.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Cant beat a good old angus hereford X, with a little brangus thrown in for the heat tolerance! Dang they look good! Personal opinion of course.

I agree 100% on Herf/Brangus cross, dang Brangus cows are outragous in this neck of the wood's.
Those calves ring the bell at the salebarn and mash down the scales.

 

[djinwa]

Cant beat a good old angus hereford X, with a little brangus thrown in for the heat tolerance! Dang they look good! Personal opinion of course.

I keep wondering why you need blacks instead of reds, and lose heat tolerance, then have to add brangus to get it back.

Why not use red brangus and actually get ahead?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Cant beat a good old angus hereford X, with a little brangus thrown in for the heat tolerance! Dang they look good! Personal opinion of course.

I keep wondering why you need blacks instead of reds, and lose heat tolerance, then have to add brangus to get it back.

Why not use red brangus and actually get ahead?

I prefer a red cow over black as I have options by just changing the bull.

 

[cross_7]

Cant beat a good old angus hereford X, with a little brangus thrown in for the heat tolerance! Dang they look good! Personal opinion of course.

I agree 100% on Herf/Brangus cross, dang Brangus cows are outragous in this neck of the wood's.
Those calves ring the bell at the salebarn and mash down the scales.

imo it don't get no better

 

[Anguscattle]

Cant beat a good old angus hereford X, with a little brangus thrown in for the heat tolerance! Dang they look good! Personal opinion of course.

I keep wondering why you need blacks instead of reds, and lose heat tolerance, then have to add brangus to get it back.

Why not use red brangus and actually get ahead?

Personal preferrence i guess. Plus, there arent too many red brangus around here that ive noticed

 

[Caustic Burno]

I thought about Red Brangus hard, fellow about seven miles north of me as the crow flies raises them.
Thought about Beefmasters as well just aint crazy about the bulls love the cow's, get to many wild colors on the calves.
Looks like a box of crayon's in the trailer. Char over Herf's crossed my mind, I just don't like eating crow, it aint to bad till you get to the beaks and feet. I swore in the seventies I would never have anything to do with a pallethead Char again. With the sucess the neighbor is having with them, I might have to pick out one for the Mrs. to buy on the next bull, if I can get over the night terror's. Wife bought a good lookin Angus put the papers in the wifes name so I can still say I have never owned one.
This guy that raise's the Brangus has some good looking boy's but they are expensive compared to the other breeds.
He must not have any trouble selling them.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Been out of town for a couple of days. BA guys, I've got nothing against your cattle -- they just aren't the cattle for us. And like I (think) I said before, I originally thought CAB beef had more to do with percentage of purebred, than 51% color + carcass quality. I hadn't studied it. I think everyone in the beef business, today (if not drought affected) is better off than a year ago. The registries that haven't promoted like AAA only have themselves to blame if they aren't getting the press/promotion that Angus does. To me, that's the long and short of it: We keep the cattle we keep because they are good for our souls and/or good for our bank accounts.

Hope everyone had a good weekend. It is absolutely, fabulously beautiful weather here today! Mid 70's, with none of our normal wind. A lady near my daughter's home (where I spent the weekend) starts our tomatoes for us and several of my co-workers every year. I called her last night; tomatoes plants were big enough to leave home, so I picked those up on the way home today. We'll put them under "Walls of Water" when we put them in next weekend, for 10 days or so if needed -- then they should be off and running. HELLOOOOOOO SPRING!

 

[Stepbystep]

I thought about Red Brangus hard, fellow about seven miles north of me as the crow flies raises them.
Thought about Beefmasters as well just aint crazy about the bulls love the cow's, get to many wild colors on the calves.
Looks like a box of crayon's in the trailer. Char over Herf's crossed my mind, I just don't like eating crow, it aint to bad till you get to the beaks and feet. I swore in the seventies I would never have anything to do with a pallethead Char again. With the sucess the neighbor is having with them, I might have to pick out one for the Mrs. to buy on the next bull, if I can get over the night terror's. Wife bought a good lookin Angus put the papers in the wifes name so I can still say I have never owned one.
This guy that raise's the Brangus has some good looking boy's but they are expensive compared to the other breeds.
He must not have any trouble selling them.

Curious Bruno
Whay do you think is wrong with the Beefmaster bulls?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't care for the wild color pattern's you can get in a terminal cow calf operation.
That Shorthorn DNA comes out of the woodpile from time to time.

 

[TexasBred]

Cant beat a good old angus hereford X, with a little brangus thrown in for the heat tolerance! Dang they look good! Personal opinion of course.

I keep wondering why you need blacks instead of reds, and lose heat tolerance, then have to add brangus to get it back.

Why not use red brangus and actually get ahead?

The blacks will perform just as well as the red and their calves will sell for more money. Very simple. ;-)

 

[Massey135]

But it's not a true picture about what the average American is buying -- they are NOT buying purebred or even high percentage Angus. Just carcass qualities.

What kinda numbers are we looking at as far as calves that qualify for CAB but that are not high percentage Angus?

I think the # is very small. Especially since the only breeds to go black are the continentals.. now how many continental breeds are there that regularly grade choice? if ever?

 

[Anguscattle]

But it's not a true picture about what the average American is buying -- they are NOT buying purebred or even high percentage Angus. Just carcass qualities.

What kinda numbers are we looking at as far as calves that qualify for CAB but that are not high percentage Angus?

I think the # is very small. Especially since the only breeds to go black are the continentals.. now how many continental breeds are there that regularly grade choice? if ever?

The continentals might be getting closer to those quality grades with outside genetics. Its certainly possible. I dont really know what the numbers are, but i think there has to be SOME angus left in the CAB. Thats where you make up your QG

 

[Massey135]

I thought about Red Brangus hard, fellow about seven miles north of me as the crow flies raises them.
Thought about Beefmasters as well just aint crazy about the bulls love the cow's, get to many wild colors on the calves.
Looks like a box of crayon's in the trailer. Char over Herf's crossed my mind, I just don't like eating crow, it aint to bad till you get to the beaks and feet. I swore in the seventies I would never have anything to do with a pallethead Char again. With the sucess the neighbor is having with them, I might have to pick out one for the Mrs. to buy on the next bull, if I can get over the night terror's. Wife bought a good lookin Angus put the papers in the wifes name so I can still say I have never owned one.
This guy that raise's the Brangus has some good looking boy's but they are expensive compared to the other breeds.
He must not have any trouble selling them.

I've used 5-6 different Beefmaster bulls over the years and never once had a colored calf. Red Beefmasters bred to homozygous black cows will throw black calves every time. I've only been to a cpl purebred Beefmaster ranches but both places had pastures full of solid colored cattle. I wouldn't give a penny over mkt for a black beefmaster.

Many smooth polled chars out there too that throw mid80lbers. I bought a Char bull from M6 last year. 91lb bw. Calved out close to 30 mixed breed cattle to him- didn't pull one.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

But it's not a true picture about what the average American is buying -- they are NOT buying purebred or even high percentage Angus. Just carcass qualities.

What kinda numbers are we looking at as far as calves that qualify for CAB but that are not high percentage Angus?

I think the # is very small. Especially since the only breeds to go black are the continentals.. now how many continental breeds are there that regularly grade choice? if ever?

MF -- I don't know what the numbers are. The point I was trying to make (which was the point Angus people were trying to sell to me) is that CAB is ANGUS! I figured 100% at the time. Probably 98% of CAB buyers at the grocery store don't know the criteria. They don't know about carcass quality; they don't know that CAB beef can have lots of white or lots of red -- AAA, with the CAB program, have sold them on black-skin beef. I have heifers out here that are 7/8 to 15/16 BA. One is red, one is sandy/gold, and one is brown buff. They would not qualify for CAB, vs. less percentage BA, via color.

This is not a "fight" for me, except that the average American consumer believes that CAB is the best beef available. I don't. It's good -- lots of other beef is as good or better. It's in the very successful marketing of AAA.