BYERGO BLACK MAGIC 3348 Fruad?

[Lazy M]

Our weaner sales here have the opposite reputation, they are known as doing well for the backgrounders that buy them and then perform in the feedlot. In contrast to your good Kentucky country our soils are poor granite soils. Maybe it is because our calves will go on to better country and do well. Maybe yours are at their best at weaning so not the same room for improvement.

Ken

Ken

It is a function of poor animal husbandry and poor genetics. We have programs that we promote to improve genetics.

Let us be very clear. There are some excellent feeder producers in Kentucky and in fact right here in our county. But there are still too many producers who produce inferior livestock.

Raven: I appreciate that you promote the special BQA and CPH sales and I participate in them often.
However, my experience with these sales are that after you take it the additional expenses the "premium" that you receive per head over the regular market price comes to around $20-30. That's a tough sale to the producer with 20 calves to sell. He'll have to revaccinate, wean, and feed his calves for 45 days to make an extra $400-600 total. Most pass and trailer wean. Unfortunately I think that this is what is ultimately going to crowd out the small cattle producer.. Whenever these standards are no longer a "special sale" opportunity, but are mandated practices.. and thus small time cattle farming will go away like the chicken and hog farms..

 

[Bright Raven]

Our weaner sales here have the opposite reputation, they are known as doing well for the backgrounders that buy them and then perform in the feedlot. In contrast to your good Kentucky country our soils are poor granite soils. Maybe it is because our calves will go on to better country and do well. Maybe yours are at their best at weaning so not the same room for improvement.

Ken

Ken

It is a function of poor animal husbandry and poor genetics. We have programs that we promote to improve genetics.

Let us be very clear. There are some excellent feeder producers in Kentucky and in fact right here in our county. But there are still too many producers who produce inferior livestock.

Raven: I appreciate that you promote the special BQA and CPH sales and I participate in them often.
However, my experience with these sales are that after you take it the additional expenses the "premium" that you receive per head over the regular market price comes to around $20-30. That's a tough sale to the producer with 20 calves to sell. He'll have to revaccinate, wean, and feed his calves for 45 days to make an extra $400-600 total. Most pass and trailer wean. Unfortunately I think that this is what is ultimately going to crowd out the small cattle producer.. Whenever these standards are no longer a "special sale" opportunity, but are mandated practices.. and thus small time cattle farming will go away like the chicken and hog farms..

You are so correct. There are opportunities for back grounding premiums. Our largest producer in Robertson County who is also on our board, sells through the back grounding arrangement at Bluegrass Stockyards in Lexington. Unfortunately, smaller producers do not have the numbers.

 

[Lazy M]

I've also heard this same rhetoric from industry reps that "KY cattle have a bad name in the industry". While there's no doubt that many stewardship practices of producers could and should be improved, I've always been skeptical. Is this message being pushed by someone with an agenda? Are they selling something? Are they paid or funded by a program that profits from practice changes?

IMO I think the best explanation for why our prices are lower than the Midwest is what Grit indicated: logistics. On the bright side, in KY, thanks to climate and location, we're able to produce more cattle/acre than most areas of the Midwest..

Logistics are a major factor but there are significant numbers behind this phenomenon. I understand your skepticism but the poor performance of Kentucky feeders is factual. Kentucky feeder calves do not perform as well and feedlots know it. Feeder lots keep excellent data on the performance of calves by source area. Calves from Kentucky do not perform as well as other regions. Perhaps due to vaccination, weaning, genetics and other husbandry practices. (Weaning on the way to the salebarn produces tremendous stress and that results in illness and deaths, both reduce performance).

This has been discussed at length by our cattle board. Robertson County tried unsuccessfully to provide a backgrounding program for producers who wish to participate. To participate, calves have to meet a set of criteria we established including proper weaning, vaccinations, etc. A group of feeder calves is put together by a coalition of producers. The producer maintains ownership. The calves are hauled to a feeder lot out west. When they are ready to slaughter, the producer is paid on the basis of gains and performance. We got one truck load and since the program has died. The one effort did result in a premium over salebarn prices.

One other thing, I actually post photos of my cattle, which are not perfection, but there are people on this board that can pick apart a person's cow, calf, bull, to the Nth degree, but they will never post any photos of what they produce. I like people who walk the walk.

Not sure if your referring to me about not posting cattle pics, but as you can see I've got a few. Not the biggest, but I've got some skin in the game. This a group of home raised spring calves. I run 2 herds; one spring bred, one fall.

 

[CattleMan1920]

You guys are hitting on some points that make the locals really upset around here. That is talk of the small producer going out of business. It's not a matter of "if", but "when", and hence the reason for a push for better genetics. I realize that there are other breeds of beef cattle beyond Angus, but when you have the brand name, you see them bring the most at market, and I'm talking about purebred Angus, not just black hides, why wouldn't you make a move into a breed that could keep you viable in the cattle business?

We recently sold a bull to a small producer and he said to me "We are switching to Angus after trying our hand with mixed cattle, we just can't make any money" He is going to start using Angus bulls moving forward and will eventually have a mostly purebred commercial herd in time. Is a Registered Angus bull the panacea for all that ails the cattle business in Kentucky?, of course not, I'm not saying it will fix the problems of the small producer, but I will say this, if you are not trying hard to improve your herd, then you are going to be working for your herd, not the herd working for you.

I support and admire people who preserve all kinds of breeds and work to further the breed they choose. People may think that I worship Angus cattle ( I kind of do, haha!) but I also really like shorthorns, and would like to have some on a separate operation one day. I came to that conclusion after researching Angus/Shorthorn crosses for commercial operations in Australia.

https://shorthornbeef.com.au/shorthorn- ... ectacular/

Whatever you decide to raise, do your best, treat your animals well, and you might be surprised at how much in demand they become.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Logistics are a major factor but there are significant numbers behind this phenomenon. I understand your skepticism but the poor performance of Kentucky feeders is factual. Kentucky feeder calves do not perform as well and feedlots know it. Feeder lots keep excellent data on the performance of calves by source area. Calves from Kentucky do not perform as well as other regions. Perhaps due to vaccination, weaning, genetics and other husbandry practices. (Weaning on the way to the salebarn produces tremendous stress and that results in illness and deaths, both reduce performance).

This has been discussed at length by our cattle board. Robertson County tried unsuccessfully to provide a backgrounding program for producers who wish to participate. To participate, calves have to meet a set of criteria we established including proper weaning, vaccinations, etc. A group of feeder calves is put together by a coalition of producers. The producer maintains ownership. The calves are hauled to a feeder lot out west. When they are ready to slaughter, the producer is paid on the basis of gains and performance. We got one truck load and since the program has died. The one effort did result in a premium over salebarn prices.

One other thing, I actually post photos of my cattle, which are not perfection, but there are people on this board that can pick apart a person's cow, calf, bull, to the Nth degree, but they will never post any photos of what they produce. I like people who walk the walk.

Not sure if your referring to me about not posting cattle pics, but as you can see I've got a few. Not the biggest, but I've got some skin in the game. This a group of home raised spring calves. I run 2 herds; one spring bred, one fall.

That is a great photo, they look good and well cared for. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Lazy M]

One other thing, I actually post photos of my cattle, which are not perfection, but there are people on this board that can pick apart a person's cow, calf, bull, to the Nth degree, but they will never post any photos of what they produce. I like people who walk the walk.

Not sure if your referring to me about not posting cattle pics, but as you can see I've got a few. Not the biggest, but I've got some skin in the game. This a group of home raised spring calves. I run 2 herds; one spring bred, one fall.

That is a great photo, they look good and well cared for. Thank you for sharing.

Thanks. Truth be told, thats last year's group. I haven't snapped a picture of the group this year. As you can imagine, it's a little more muddy this year :lol:

 

[Bright Raven]

Luke:

I bet that ground don't look like that this fall. You posted that picture once before. I remember the foothills.

Edited to add: we were posting at the same time. Lol

 

[NEFarmwife]

https://m.facebook.com/doddscattle/
You can see pics of our cattle here. Most our operation is the same genetics you use. Much of our operation is commercial but we A.I. everything. Our primary source of income is thru the NHTC program but we do well selling commercial bulls also. We're transitioning some but we like to diversify.

 

[Lazy M]

Luke:

I bet that ground don't look like that this fall. You posted that picture once before. I remember the foothills.

Edited to add: we were posting at the same time. Lol

Yep last year it was a JOY to feed the calves; this year it's a JOB.

 

[Bright Raven]

Luke:

I bet that ground don't look like that this fall. You posted that picture once before. I remember the foothills.

Edited to add: we were posting at the same time. Lol

Yep last year it was a JOY to feed the calves; this year it's a JOB.

Yep. It is awful over here. I cannot stand up on my hillsides.

 

[Lazy M]

Luke:

I bet that ground don't look like that this fall. You posted that picture once before. I remember the foothills.

Edited to add: we were posting at the same time. Lol

Yep last year it was a JOY to feed the calves; this year it's a JOB.

Yep. It is awful over here. I cannot stand up on my hillsides.

You barely could under the best conditions :lol2:

 

[CattleMan1920]

https://m.facebook.com/doddscattle/
You can see pics of our cattle here. Most our operation is the same genetics you use. Much of our operation is commercial but we A.I. everything. Our primary source of income is thru the NHTC program but we do well selling commercial bulls also. We're transitioning some but we like to diversify.

I checked out your page, very nice herd, they too look well cared for.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Yep last year it was a JOY to feed the calves; this year it's a JOB.

Yep. It is awful over here. I cannot stand up on my hillsides.

You barely could under the best conditions :lol2:

Maybe we could open up our farms to Tough Mudder competitions.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You would have to add my farm to that competition. Errrr - I hate this mud. Right now, we are getting "mostly" frozen, except where they have already churned things up.

 

[76 Bar]

Haven't follow this discussion closely. Got curious and looked up the bull's current ends. Stunned that anyone would want to use such a bull and particularly with a -43.58 $EN coupled with a video that indicates he's conformationally unsound.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Haven't follow this discussion closely. Got curious and looked up the bull's current ends. Stunned that anyone would want to use such a bull and particularly with a -43.58 $EN coupled with a video that indicates he's conformationally unsound.

We used his son Blackstone. Terminal. We finish our own cattle. Blackstone calves have impressed us to no end. They're only a week or two old and have a lot of growing to do but they are nice! Finished value, we'll still come out ahead.

Link to my personal FB with pic of Blackstone. They're our favorite as calves.
https://www.facebook.com/609586731/posts/10156058585301732/

 

[76 Bar]

Thanks for the link. Since you rightly acknowledge the sire line is terminal e.g. progeny destined as feeders/no replacements retained, what determined who you opted to breed to Blackstone?

 

[NEFarmwife]

Thanks for the link. Since you rightly acknowledge the sire line is terminal e.g. progeny destined as feeders/no replacements retained, what determined who you opted to breed to Blackstone?

Those dams who've weaned off good calves. Mostly our Up N Coming (styles upgrade full brother) daughters.

We had 30 straws of him. Six still in the tank.

I'd honestly consider breeding him to a couple of our PB. So while we bred terminal, I would blink twice about using him on a cow or two.

 

[76 Bar]

Thanks for the clarification. Obviously you have a group/herd specifically dedicated to maternal genetics as your resource for cows & replacements.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Thanks for the clarification. Obviously you have a group/herd specifically dedicated to maternal genetics as your resource for cows & replacements.

We sure do. A lot has changed over the last couple years as we've transitioned in how we market our cattle. While we're breeding terminal for finish quality and $, we had already done a great job when it came to quality. We see the results of those efforts when we get our info back at time of slaughter.

We know how many replacements we'd like to have the following year when we plan breedings. We retain 50-60 a year and have grown exponentially over the last 2 with various markets. I.E. purebreds, fall calvers (our red angus), NHTC, and our Okies (critically old bred cows). Last 2 years we've nearly doubled in size and we're either stupid crazy or we're doing something right. I'd like to think the latter.