BYERGO BLACK MAGIC 3348 Fruad?

[Lazy M]

I see no reason for seedstock producers to produce terminal Angus stock. Rather, they should strive to balance traits to provide sires that will produce functional, fertile cattle for commercial operations. Nothing's wrong with using the Harvestor and International and Net Worth (watch out for docility issues) bulls to improve the performance of overly-thrifty cattle, but it seems to me that you are putting gas on an already raging fire.[/quote][/color]

One of our International calves, BH International 973 (AAA #19193579) has the following genomically enhanced EPD's

WW, RADG, DMI in the top 15% of the breed
Heifer Preg at top 25% of the breed
Carcass Weight EPD at top 25% of the breed
$B at top 10% of the breed.

Unless I'm missing something, those numbers will most likely translate into some respectable steers and heifers. I know that there are bulls with better numbers, I'm not trying to make this a pis...ng contest, I'm just saying that this son of International has it where it matters, and he would definitely improve the average commercial cowherd.[/quote]
https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl. ... wUew%3d%3d
.. And she's in the very bottom 5-15% for CE and BW and Docility. "Improve" is a very subjective term. What may be an improvement to you is not as valuable to me. I love the extra growth and performance but don't want to introduce calving issues into my herd. Some of my farms are only checked once or twice a week and I won't be there to pull calves before it's too late. Also not a fan of poor dispositions in cattle..

 

[NEFarmwife]

I see no reason for seedstock producers to produce terminal Angus stock. Rather, they should strive to balance traits to provide sires that will produce functional, fertile cattle for commercial operations. Nothing's wrong with using the Harvestor and International and Net Worth (watch out for docility issues) bulls to improve the performance of overly-thrifty cattle, but it seems to me that you are putting gas on an already raging fire.

[/color]

One of our International calves, BH International 973 (AAA #19193579) has the following genomically enhanced EPD's

WW, RADG, DMI in the top 15% of the breed
Heifer Preg at top 25% of the breed
Carcass Weight EPD at top 25% of the breed
$B at top 10% of the breed.

Unless I'm missing something, those numbers will most likely translate into some respectable steers and heifers. I know that there are bulls with better numbers, I'm not trying to make this a pis...ng contest, I'm just saying that this son of International has it where it matters, and he would definitely improve the average commercial cowherd.[/quote]
https://www.angus.org/Animal/EpdPedDtl. ... wUew%3d%3d
.. And she's in the very bottom 5-15% for CE and BW and Docility. "Improve" is a very subjective term. What may be an improvement to you is not as valuable to me. I love the extra growth and performance but don't want to introduce calving issues into my herd. Some of my farms are only checked once or twice a week and I won't be there to pull calves before it's too late. Also not a fan of poor dispositions in cattle..[/quote]

Yikes on docility! How does she fair for you?

I knew that didn't come from International! All our mommas are very docile.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Why are the quotes so broken?

 

[CattleMan1920]

[/quote] And she's in the very bottom 5-15% for CE and BW and Docility. "Improve" is a very subjective term. What may be an improvement to you is not as valuable to me. I love the extra growth and performance but don't want to introduce calving issues into my herd. Some of my farms are only checked once or twice a week and I won't be there to pull calves before it's too late. Also not a fan of poor dispositions in cattle..[/quote]

Understood, but Angus are naturally calving ease. Even a +1 Angus bull will probably offer better calving ease than other breeds that are deemed "calving ease". My grandfather had a herd of Charolais, great looking cattle, but he was pulling cattle constantly. I hear producers around here talking about pulling calves, prolapses, and such. We rarely pull one, and we aren't losing many either. Occasionally one will need assistance or we will find a dead calf, but that is well within the norm of any operation.

In my observation, it's really hard to get that growth out of high CED, low birthweight, low $B bulls. One of the bulls we have offered for sale right now was sired by a Stone Gate bull, he is fantastic from a docility standpoint, he's a baby, he is calving ease +5 CED, but where he really shines is his efficiency numbers, DMI top 1% and $EN top 4%, and he also has a heifer pregnancy EPD of top 3%. I love the bull, but I know he not going to produce big 205 numbers. That's not what he is designed for, he is for "set it and forget it" ranching, and that is exactly what some people want, absolutely nothing wrong with that. I don't have a commercial operation, but may start one before long, and one thing I want is high weaning weights and superior carcass quality. You don't see that too much in KY.

 

[CattleMan1920]

"Yikes on docility! How does she fair for you?

I knew that didn't come from International! All our mommas are very docile."


They are pretty docile, rarely do we have any issues. Docility is subjective, whats docile for me, may not be for you. When you can pet them in the field and they come to the barn with a bit of grain for AI, I call that docile, and we can do that with our herd. We mainly use polywire electric for the entire farm except for perimeters, and they respect that completely as well. I find that if you raise one from a calf, and treat her with complete respect, she will be docile, no matter who the sire is, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Lazy M]

And she's in the very bottom 5-15% for CE and BW and Docility. "Improve" is a very subjective term. What may be an improvement to you is not as valuable to me. I love the extra growth and performance but don't want to introduce calving issues into my herd. Some of my farms are only checked once or twice a week and I won't be there to pull calves before it's too late. Also not a fan of poor dispositions in cattle..[/quote]

Understood, but Angus are naturally calving ease. Even a +1 Angus bull will probably offer better calving ease than other breeds that are deemed "calving ease". My grandfather had a herd of Charolais, great looking cattle, but he was pulling cattle constantly. I hear producers around here talking about pulling calves, prolapses, and such. We rarely pull one, and we aren't losing many either. Occasionally one will need assistance or we will find a dead calf, but that is well within the norm of any operation.

In my observation, it's really hard to get that growth out of high CED, low birthweight, low $B bulls. One of the bulls we have offered for sale right now was sired by a Stone Gate bull, he is fantastic from a docility standpoint, he's a baby, he is calving ease +5 CED, but where he really shines is his efficiency numbers, DMI top 1% and $EN top 4%, and he also has a heifer pregnancy EPD of top 3%. I love the bull, but I know he not going to produce big 205 numbers. That's not what he is designed for, he is for "set it and forget it" ranching, and that is exactly what some people want, absolutely nothing wrong with that. I don't have a commercial operation, but may start one before long, and one thing I want is high weaning weights and superior carcass quality. You don't see that too much in KY.[/quote]
I like most of what you're saying, and being commercial I also put more emphasis on growth. I do want a bull that is at least at breed average for CE/BW, though.
Not picking on you, but I often think it's amusing how seedstock producers emphasize the legitimacy of some EPDs and discount others. My take is if you claim that some are valid and others aren't: throw the whole dang thing out and let's just look at phenotype like we did in Grandpappy's day..

 

[CattleMan1920]

Not picking on you, but I often think it's amusing how seedstock producers emphasize the legitimacy of some EPDs and discount others. My take is if you claim that some are valid and others aren't: throw the whole dang thing out and let's just look at phenotype like we did in Grandpappy's day..

My neighbor bought a bull (ET) from a local breeder and was told "this is a calving ease bull", and at the time he WAS calving ease according to his registration paper. Long story short, this bull sired 30+ calves for him on a purebred Angus herd, where many of the cows were from our operation. I suggested that he have the bull DNA tested, so he did, and then the story became more interesting. His CED dropped from "breed average" to BELOW breed average +2. He was not happy about it, he said "I thought I bought calving ease!" Then I asked him, are you pleased with the how the calves look, he said, "yes, they are some of the best I've ever had on the ground" Then I said "did you lose any or pull any?" answer, "no". Then I said, "what are you complaining about?"

His fears of "calving ease" trumped all of his other concerns. The bull had 13 EPD categories in the top 20% of the Angus breed, but that didn't matter, all that mattered to him was the CED...

Here is the AAA # for the bull 18352228.



By the way, when the calves were close to weaning they looked top notch and heavy. A Denver trademark.

Our state, Kentucky, along with University of Kentucky and Morehead State University Ag depts, appear to push the low birthweight/high CED, as well as the auctioneers at sales around here "Golf all day, sleep all night" as I hear them often say to the chuckles of the crowd.

What they are saying to you however is this, when your bills have to be paid, and that trailer is full of featherweights, that you have spent an equal amount of time and energy on versus heavyweights, it is going to kill your beef business eventually. In this area, genetics is often an afterthought. When you take two steers and raise them on the same land with the same inputs and one weans 100 pounds or more at 205, it doesn't take much to realize which animal is going to make you more money.

WIth that said, and I will get a lot of flack for saying this, the institutions and some breeders have people scared of the boogie man, in the form of calving ease. People around here, and I have no issues with these breeds as a disclaimer, use Gelbvieh, Charolais, and Simmental to get size on their cattle, usually they will not even be able to get info on the CED of that bull or it's carcass traits, and when they are pulling calves and such just shrug it off. When you say "try this Registered Angus, who is DNA tested and free of all recessives, with a +1 CED on your cows, not heifers, COWS" and they say "oh lord no, that will kill my cow, I would never breed to a +1 bull" yet they breed to mystery bulls all day long. The logic is perplexing to me. I guess it's the hybrid vigor they are after, who knows?

 

[Lazy M]

Not picking on you, but I often think it's amusing how seedstock producers emphasize the legitimacy of some EPDs and discount others. My take is if you claim that some are valid and others aren't: throw the whole dang thing out and let's just look at phenotype like we did in Grandpappy's day..

My neighbor bought a bull (ET) from a local breeder and was told "this is a calving ease bull", and at the time he WAS calving ease according to his registration paper. Long story short, this bull sired 30+ calves for him on a purebred Angus herd, where many of the cows were from our operation. I suggested that he have the bull DNA tested, so he did, and then the story became more interesting. His CED dropped from "breed average" to BELOW breed average +2. He was not happy about it, he said "I thought I bought calving ease!" Then I asked him, are you pleased with the how the calves look, he said, "yes, they are some of the best I've ever had on the ground" Then I said "did you lose any or pull any?" answer, "no". Then I said, "what are you complaining about?"

His fears of "calving ease" trumped all of his other concerns. The bull had 13 EPD categories in the top 20% of the Angus breed, but that didn't matter, all that mattered to him was the CED...

Here is the AAA # for the bull 18352228.



By the way, when the calves were close to weaning they looked top notch and heavy. A Denver trademark.

Our state, Kentucky, along with University of Kentucky and Morehead State University Ag depts, appear to push the low birthweight/high CED, as well as the auctioneers at sales around here "Golf all day, sleep all night" as I hear them often say to the chuckles of the crowd.

What they are saying to you however is this, when your bills have to be paid, and that trailer is full of featherweights, that you have spent an equal amount of time and energy on versus heavyweights, it is going to kill your beef business eventually. In this area, genetics is often an afterthought. When you take two steers and raise them on the same land with the same inputs and one weans 100 pounds or more at 205, it doesn't take much to realize which animal is going to make you more money.

WIth that said, and I will get a lot of flack for saying this, the institutions and some breeders have people scared of the boogie man, in the form of calving ease. People around here, and I have no issues with these breeds as a disclaimer, use Gelbvieh, Charolais, and Simmental to get size on their cattle, usually they will not even be able to get info on the CED of that bull or it's carcass traits, and when they are pulling calves and such just shrug it off. When you say "try this Registered Angus, who is DNA tested and free of all recessives, with a +1 CED on your cows, not heifers, COWS" and they say "oh lord no, that will kill my cow, I would never breed to a +1 bull" yet they breed to mystery bulls all day long. The logic is perplexing to me. I guess it's the hybrid vigor they are after, who knows?

All the breeds you mentioned also have epds that I hope producers are paying attention to whenever they purchase bulls. AAA even has conversion chart that enable you to convert the epds of other breeds into comparable Angus epds.
BTW I've noticed that you seem to enjoy painting a picture of all your fellow KY cattlemen as morons.. are you down on us because we don't buy our cows necklaces too (sorry couldn't resist) :roll:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Branded - I agree with a lot of what you say. I, also, don't believe in using super CE sires - unless they also have great growth. We, in the Simmental breed, have done a tremendous job providing a lot of "spread" bulls - CE with growth.

 

[CattleMan1920]

[/quote]
BTW I've noticed that you seem to enjoy painting a picture of all your fellow KY cattlemen as morons.. are you down on us because we don't buy our cows necklaces too (sorry couldn't resist) :roll:
[/quote]

Just so you know, I don't see things that way at all. I respect all of the cattlemen and cattleladies that work hard on their herds to take care of them and improve the genetics. I know the challenges of this business, we don't have fulltime employees and farm managers here at Branded. WHAT I DO have an issue with are people who have cattle and starve them, treat them like sh...t, and then complain incessantly about the cattle market being so bad, and yes there are a lot of them in KY. If that is a problem, who cares! I deal with people who have commercial herds and registered herds, and they will tell you that they get my full respect, no matter what color their cattle are, when I know that they treat their cattle well.

There is a reason why Kentucky producers get some of the lowest prices in the country for their cattle, versus surrounding states. I listened to a top auctioneer from Texas speak at an industry meeting in Lexington and he told the audience, reluctantly, that Kentucky cattle have a bad name, but they are improving, slowly. Is that something to be proud of and defend? That sucks! Who wants to work hard, produce a high-quality product, then have a broad label stamped on it, reflective of all the other cattle producers that couldn't give a rat's a...s about the product they take to the stockyards?

In my county there are people that work hard on their herds, I RESPECT THE HUSTLE, then there are others that couldn't raise a Pet Rock. Most people laugh, and I mean LAUGH at the idea of A.I. around here. Read a book called "Ideal Pioneers: Memoirs of Martin F. Jorgensen Jr. and a history of Jorgensen Land & Cattle. A story of faith, love and determination" and you will see what resistance is all about.

Not that I am offering this, but assure you I could give away semen on top ABS, Origen AI sires around here for free, and pay for the AI tech, and it would not be used. Does that tell you anything?

 

[Bright Raven]

BTW I've noticed that you seem to enjoy painting a picture of all your fellow KY cattlemen as morons.. are you down on us because we don't buy our cows necklaces too (sorry couldn't resist) :roll:


Just so you know, I don't see things that way at all. I respect all of the cattlemen and cattleladies that work hard on their herds to take care of them and improve the genetics. I know the challenges of this business, we don't have fulltime employees and farm managers here at Branded. WHAT I DO have an issue with are people who have cattle and starve them, treat them like sh...t, and then complain incessantly about the cattle market being so bad, and yes there are a lot of them in KY. If that is a problem, who cares! I deal with people who have commercial herds and registered herds, and they will tell you that they get my full respect, no matter what color their cattle are, when I know that they treat their cattle well.

There is a reason why Kentucky producers get some of the lowest prices in the country for their cattle, versus surrounding states. I listened to a top auctioneer from Texas speak at an industry meeting in Lexington and he told the audience, reluctantly, that Kentucky cattle have a bad name, but they are improving, slowly. Is that something to be proud of and defend? That sucks! Who wants to work hard, produce a high-quality product, then have a broad label stamped on it, reflective of all the other cattle producers that couldn't give a rat's a...s about the product they take to the stockyards?

In my county there are people that work hard on their herds, I RESPECT THE HUSTLE, then there are others that couldn't raise a Pet Rock. Most people laugh, and I mean LAUGH at the idea of A.I. around here. Read a book called "Ideal Pioneers: Memoirs of Martin F. Jorgensen Jr. and a history of Jorgensen Land & Cattle. A story of faith, love and determination" and you will see what resistance is all about.

Not that I am offering this, but assure you I could give away semen on top ABS, Origen AI sires around here for free, and pay for the AI tech, and it would not be used. Does that tell you anything?

With all the rain we have had, animal husbandry has reached an all time disgrace in my area and I am sure you are seeing the same thing. I see cattle standing in mud a foot deep. The cattle are skinny, the calves are dying and the trees are black with vultures. I see one place on US 62 between Mt. Olivet and Maysville where the cattle are skin and bones, standing over pitiful little calves between their legs in nothing but mud. Vultures are having a picnic on the dying calves. The owner does not reside there and the cows are fed on an infrequent basis. The hay looks like crap. The pasture is over stocked. Nothing to eat. The calves get out and I see them often in a neighbor's yard eating on their lawn. I have considered reporting them to the sherriff. The level of neglect is appalling.

Kentucky has some outstanding producers, known nation wide, but on the whole, Kentucky is not as progressive as some other states. I have spent enough time in Missouri to recognize that their cattle industry is more progressive even their feed stores are more progressive. I sometimes buy stuff out there that I do not find here. I am on the cattle board for Robertson county. We have some conscientious cattle producers. One of our goals is to promote better animal husbandry. It is sometimes a discouraging endeavor.

 

[True Grit Farms]

BTW I've noticed that you seem to enjoy painting a picture of all your fellow KY cattlemen as morons.. are you down on us because we don't buy our cows necklaces too (sorry couldn't resist) :roll:


Just so you know, I don't see things that way at all. I respect all of the cattlemen and cattleladies that work hard on their herds to take care of them and improve the genetics. I know the challenges of this business, we don't have fulltime employees and farm managers here at Branded. WHAT I DO have an issue with are people who have cattle and starve them, treat them like sh...t, and then complain incessantly about the cattle market being so bad, and yes there are a lot of them in KY. If that is a problem, who cares! I deal with people who have commercial herds and registered herds, and they will tell you that they get my full respect, no matter what color their cattle are, when I know that they treat their cattle well.

There is a reason why Kentucky producers get some of the lowest prices in the country for their cattle, versus surrounding states. I listened to a top auctioneer from Texas speak at an industry meeting in Lexington and he told the audience, reluctantly, that Kentucky cattle have a bad name, but they are improving, slowly. Is that something to be proud of and defend? That sucks! Who wants to work hard, produce a high-quality product, then have a broad label stamped on it, reflective of all the other cattle producers that couldn't give a rat's a...s about the product they take to the stockyards?

In my county there are people that work hard on their herds, I RESPECT THE HUSTLE, then there are others that couldn't raise a Pet Rock. Most people laugh, and I mean LAUGH at the idea of A.I. around here. Read a book called "Ideal Pioneers: Memoirs of Martin F. Jorgensen Jr. and a history of Jorgensen Land & Cattle. A story of faith, love and determination" and you will see what resistance is all about.

Not that I am offering this, but assure you I could give away semen on top ABS, Origen AI sires around here for free, and pay for the AI tech, and it would not be used. Does that tell you anything?

With all the rain we have had, animal husbandry has reached an all time disgrace in my area and I am sure you are seeing the same thing. I could take pictures of cattle that are standing in mud a foot deep. The cattle are skinny, the calves are dying and the trees are black with vultures. I see one place on US 62 between Mt. Olivet and Maysville where the cattle are skin and bones, standing over pitiful little calves between their legs in nothing but mud. Vultures are having a picnic on the dying calves. The owner does not reside there and the cows are fed on an infrequent basis. I have considered reporting them to the sherriff. The level of neglect is appalling.

Kentucky has some outstanding producers, known nation wide, but on the whole, Kentucky is not as progressive as some other states. I have spent enough time in Missouri to recognize that their industry is much more progressive even their feed stores are much more progressive. I sometimes buy stuff out their that I do not find here. I am on the cattle board for Robertson county. We have some very conscientious cattle producers. One of our goals is to promote better animal husbandry. It is a sometimes discouraging endeavor.

Your mud is only a foot deep? This is going to be a tough year in the southeast. Our place is a mud hole and tore up, so I'm planning on planting a millet - Tif-9 mix this spring and smooth, level the pastures out.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Bright Raven, thank you for saying what I was really holding back on but wanted to say.

If anyone finds my comments offensive you are part of the problem not the solution.

You will NEVER hear me say disparaging remarks about a producer that works diligently to raise and protect his or her herd of cattle. But to those that leave them to die, I do look down upon you. Don't keep animals if you cannot handle the responsibility of caring for them properly.

I will say it again, Kentucky has a very long ways to go before they are recognized for high quality cattle, that's a shame considering that we have the best Thoroughbred horses in the world, and the same for Bourbon. If what I say offends, too bad, I would love to see people get very serious about cattle business in this state, and get competitive on national stage but I'm probably hoping for too much.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Bright Raven, thank you for saying what I was really holding back on but wanted to say.

If anyone finds my comments offensive you are part of the problem not the solution.

You will NEVER hear me say disparaging remarks about a producer that works diligently to raise and protect his or her herd of cattle. But to those that leave them to die, I do look down upon you. Don't keep animals if you cannot handle the responsibility of caring for them properly.

I will say it again, Kentucky has a very long ways to go before they are recognized for high quality cattle, that's a shame considering that we have the best Thoroughbred horses in the world, and the same for Bourbon. If what I say offends, too bad, I would love to see people get very serious about cattle business in this state, and get competitive on national stage but I'm probably hoping for too much.

We hear the same thing about the cattle in Georgia at the different seminars we attend. But I have seen sorry cattle in every state. We definitely get screwed on the price of our cattle. When you figure how many people are making money off our cattle and how far they have to travel we do alright. I don't think cows from the Midwest would fair any better if they were shipped here to be feed out.

 

[Lazy M]

Bright Raven, thank you for saying what I was really holding back on but wanted to say.

If anyone finds my comments offensive you are part of the problem not the solution.

You will NEVER hear me say disparaging remarks about a producer that works diligently to raise and protect his or her herd of cattle. But to those that leave them to die, I do look down upon you. Don't keep animals if you cannot handle the responsibility of caring for them properly.

I will say it again, Kentucky has a very long ways to go before they are recognized for high quality cattle, that's a shame considering that we have the best Thoroughbred horses in the world, and the same for Bourbon. If what I say offends, too bad, I would love to see people get very serious about cattle business in this state, and get competitive on national stage but I'm probably hoping for too much.

We hear the same thing about the cattle in Georgia at the different seminars we attend. But I have seen sorry cattle in every state. We definitely get screwed on the price of our cattle. When you figure how many people are making money off our cattle and how far they have to travel we do alright. I don't think cows from the Midwest would fair any better if they were shipped here to be feed out.

I've also heard this same rhetoric from industry reps that "KY cattle have a bad name in the industry". While there's no doubt that many stewardship practices of producers could and should be improved, I've always been skeptical. Is this message being pushed by someone with an agenda? Are they selling something? Are they paid or funded by a program that profits from practice changes?

IMO I think the best explanation for why our prices are lower than the Midwest is what Grit indicated: logistics. On the bright side, in KY, thanks to climate and location, we're able to produce more cattle/acre than most areas of the Midwest..

 

[Bright Raven]

I've also heard this same rhetoric from industry reps that "KY cattle have a bad name in the industry". While there's no doubt that many stewardship practices of producers could and should be improved, I've always been skeptical. Is this message being pushed by someone with an agenda? Are they selling something? Are they paid or funded by a program that profits from practice changes?

IMO I think the best explanation for why our prices are lower than the Midwest is what Grit indicated: logistics. On the bright side, in KY, thanks to climate and location, we're able to produce more cattle/acre than most areas of the Midwest..

Logistics are a major factor but there are significant numbers behind this phenomenon. I understand your skepticism but the poor performance of Kentucky feeders is factual. Kentucky feeder calves do not perform as well and feedlots know it. Feeder lots keep excellent data on the performance of calves by source area. Calves from Kentucky do not perform as well as other regions. Perhaps due to vaccination, weaning, genetics and other husbandry practices. (Weaning on the way to the salebarn produces tremendous stress and that results in illness and deaths, both reduce performance).

This has been discussed at length by our cattle board. Robertson County tried unsuccessfully to provide a backgrounding program for producers who wish to participate. To participate, calves have to meet a set of criteria we established including proper weaning, vaccinations, etc. A group of feeder calves is put together by a coalition of producers. The producer maintains ownership. The calves are hauled to a feeder lot out west. When they are ready to slaughter, the producer is paid on the basis of gains and performance. We got one truck load and since the program has died. The one effort did result in a premium over salebarn prices.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I've also heard this same rhetoric from industry reps that "KY cattle have a bad name in the industry". While there's no doubt that many stewardship practices of producers could and should be improved, I've always been skeptical. Is this message being pushed by someone with an agenda? Are they selling something? Are they paid or funded by a program that profits from practice changes?

IMO I think the best explanation for why our prices are lower than the Midwest is what Grit indicated: logistics. On the bright side, in KY, thanks to climate and location, we're able to produce more cattle/acre than most areas of the Midwest..

Logistics are a major factor but there are significant numbers behind this phenomenon. I understand your skepticism but the poor performance of Kentucky feeders is factual. Kentucky feeder calves do not perform as well and feedlots know it. Feeder lots keep excellent data on the performance of calves by source area. Calves from Kentucky do not perform as well as other regions. Perhaps due to vaccination, weaning, genetics and other husbandry practices. (Weaning on the way to the salebarn produces tremendous stress and that results in illness and deaths, both reduce performance).

This has been discussed at length by our cattle board. Robertson County tried unsuccessfully to provide a backgrounding program for producers who wish to participate. To participate, calves have to meet a set of criteria we established including proper weaning, vaccinations, etc. A group of feeder calves is put together by a coalition of producers. The producer maintains ownership. The calves are hauled to a feeder lot out west. When they are ready to slaughter, the producer is paid on the basis of gains and performance. We got one truck load and since the program has died. The one effort did result in a premium over salebarn prices.

That about sums things up Bright Raven, I've heard people say if their cattle can stand up and make it on the truck that is all that matters. Who the h...ll wants to buy cattle like that, they are barely good enough for dog food, much less a prime ribeye. I'm not saying we are the end all be all at Branded, and I sure as h..ll am not being paid to say this by any industry consortium, but we give it our very level best to produce a high-quality animal that we stand behind. My observations are from experience, not a hunch. Our operation breeds cattle that most in Kentucky would not even touch (big, negative CED, etc, why? "Too big, too fancy, too everything you can imagine" but at the end of the day, we rarely lose calves, we don't have prolapsed heifers and cows with their rib cages showing, and we don't feed our cattle baled up weeds. If that makes us fancy, so be it. Tell any serious producer that you wean 4 weights at 205 and they would think you are running a backwards operation. WIth as much grass as we have here in KY, and with the right genetics in place, not to mention solid vaccination protocols and nutrition, healthy cattle and big weaning weights should be a no-brainer. But as Bright Raven stated above, it's NOT the case, and it's far from being the case. One other thing, I actually post photos of my cattle, which are not perfection, but there are people on this board that can pick apart a person's cow, calf, bull, to the Nth degree, but they will never post any photos of what they produce. I like people who walk the walk.

 

[wbvs58]

Our weaner sales here have the opposite reputation, they are known as doing well for the backgrounders that buy them and then perform in the feedlot. In contrast to your good Kentucky country our soils are poor granite soils. Maybe it is because our calves will go on to better country and do well. Maybe yours are at their best at weaning so not the same room for improvement.

Ken

 

[Bright Raven]

Our weaner sales here have the opposite reputation, they are known as doing well for the backgrounders that buy them and then perform in the feedlot. In contrast to your good Kentucky country our soils are poor granite soils. Maybe it is because our calves will go on to better country and do well. Maybe yours are at their best at weaning so not the same room for improvement.

Ken

Ken

It is a function of poor animal husbandry and poor genetics. We have programs that we promote to improve genetics.

Let us be very clear. There are some excellent feeder producers in Kentucky and in fact right here in our county. But there are still too many producers who produce inferior livestock.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Our weaner sales here have the opposite reputation, they are known as doing well for the backgrounders that buy them and then perform in the feedlot. In contrast to your good Kentucky country our soils are poor granite soils. Maybe it is because our calves will go on to better country and do well. Maybe yours are at their best at weaning so not the same room for improvement.

Ken

I think you might be on to something Ken. Kentucky has way better grass than we have and there's feeder buyers from TX, OK buying at our largest sales every week in Georgia. I know for a fact over conditioned calves won't bring what good calves will. There's a lot less profit in them for the buyers.