BW

[redfornow]

Where in my statement did I say that I wouldn't cull because of a 100 pounder?

I don't think you need to cull a cow just because she had a 100 lb. calf. Now if she had to be helped that is a different story. We don't have many that are born over 100 lb but we have only had problems with one and it was breach. I like for a heifer to have a calf under 80 lb. They just seem to do better. As for the cows I don't worry about them, but I don't use mega BW bulls on them either.

Tod,

I dont cull on a hundred pounder automatically, depends on the weight, shape, weight of previous calfs.
But at right around a hundred, if she delivers without help and doesnt have other stikes already.
She still has a home.
But above 100 lbs I am looking at her.
There is more to it than just the simple you are gone....

MD

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Rod , How many of your bull customers (assuming you do sell some seedstock) want to buy those bulls with 90-100 lb birthweights??

I've got three bulls pre-sold this year (just starting in the purebred business, so thats 3/4s of my available offerings :lol: ), and the buyers specifically wanted decent birthweights. In the north, the days of jack rabbit calves are going away, and most guys aren't scared of 100 lb calves. To appeal to a greater range of buyers, I'm targetting 90 - 100lbs for my purebreds, but I'll continue to use 100lb+ BW bulls on my commercial herd. While trying to come up with a business plan for my purebreds, I talked to alot of buyers at purebred auctions, and almost to a man they expressed displeasure at low BW bulls. The low BW bulls also sold at the tail end of the dollar scale, despite having reasonably good growth.

As Dun said, different areas require different management schemes. There simply isn't as much grass calving up here, and most guys want those big strong calves when the grass does open up so they make better use of it. Small calves may be eating grass, but they're not getting as much out of it as a well developed calf is.

Rod

 

[jnowack]

BW gets to much attention.
Try to keep it under 100 lbs and you should be fine.
75-85 is perfect, but we all know the bull that averages 80 will give you a 120 and a 50 at times in the same year.
Had that very thing happen this year with the clean up bull.

I worry more about shape. But thats just me....

MD

Thats a BS reply as you can not sell dead calfs or crippled cows for a premium. BW and Calving ease are the number one thing to look for. If I have a cow that has a 100 pound calf I am culling her I do not want those genetics anywhere around.

Does that mean you load the bull up and sell him too? Half the genetics are his. Better sell all the other calves out of him too, just to be safe.......since you got the trailer hooked up anyway.

You show your ignorance with each post. Do you even own any cows.
Anyone that has ran cows more than 30 days knows you can put a low BW bull on cows and still have some anomolies. You don't want these.

Easy now CB. I was just being a little sarcastic. I thought you had a sense of humor. Like you just said anomolies can happen. You said you would ship a cow because she had a 100 lb calf because you don't want those genetics around. Who is to say it wasn't the bull's fault or just one of those anomolies. I don't want 100 lb calves either. I sell bulls and most of them get bred to heifers so I watch the birthweight and calving ease. If I have a 100 lb bull calf it goes to the salebarn because I can't market it as a breeding bull. If I have a cow that consistantly throws big calves I would also cull her, but accidents do happen and I would not cull a cow just because she had one calf that weighed 100 lbs.

 

[TSR]

Rod , How many of your bull customers (assuming you do sell some seedstock) want to buy those bulls with 90-100 lb birthweights??

I've got three bulls pre-sold this year (just starting in the purebred business, so thats 3/4s of my available offerings :lol: ), and the buyers specifically wanted decent birthweights. In the north, the days of jack rabbit calves are going away, and most guys aren't scared of 100 lb calves. To appeal to a greater range of buyers, I'm targetting 90 - 100lbs for my purebreds, but I'll continue to use 100lb+ BW bulls on my commercial herd. While trying to come up with a business plan for my purebreds, I talked to alot of buyers at purebred auctions, and almost to a man they expressed displeasure at low BW bulls. The low BW bulls also sold at the tail end of the dollar scale, despite having reasonably good growth.

As Dun said, different areas require different management schemes. There simply isn't as much grass calving up here, and most guys want those big strong calves when the grass does open up so they make better use of it. Small calves may be eating grass, but they're not getting as much out of it as a well developed calf is.

Rod

Around here if a bull throws a 100 lb calf very often he will get a trip to the salebarn a lot sooner thn the ones that throw 80lb calves. Owners get scared, one pull of a 100 pounder is most of the time, all it takes. The same is generally true if you were trying to sell a bull and told someone he weighed 100 lbs. at birth, they would be pretty reluctant to buy him. Maybe because so many people had trouble with the continentals some years back and most people have less than 40 cows in their herd. Besides the trouble they can't afford to lose a calf. My neighbor raises baldies and always buys bulls at or close to 0 bw epd, he told me the last one he bought was a -1.6 or something similar. Also in years past and MOST years lighter cattle 4-500 lbs bring very close to the same as heavier calves in my area. There have been lots of calves sold right off the cow in the last couple of years here because of the prices,etc. As you said whatever works for you in your environment. On another note my tax accountant told me that 10% loss was average on the cattle herds in the US. I don't know where he got his info. He runs about 150 brood cows.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

On another note my tax accountant told me that 10% loss was average on the cattle herds in the US. I don't know where he got his info. He runs about 150 brood cows.

That 10% number is normally kicked around as an average loss rate, although I've never been clear whether that was just at calving time, or if that was loss before weaning. I have a 2% calving loss rate around here with 100 lb average calves on 12 - 1500 lb cows (very few 1500s), and these are stillborn or oddities like calves being stepped on, birth defects, or coyotes getting them. In the last 7 years, I haven't lost a calf to hard birthing and other than this year with that odd behaving bull, I pull 1 in 60 calves. Of course, now that I've said that, the next calving season I'll lose 25% of my calves and end up pulling half of them. :lol:

I feel that if I've done a proper job of bull selection, my cows had better be able to deliver 7-8% of their body weight otherwise they can find new homes.

Rod

 

[randiliana]

On another note my tax accountant told me that 10% loss was average on the cattle herds in the US. I don't know where he got his info. He runs about 150 brood cows.

That 10% number is normally kicked around as an average loss rate, although I've never been clear whether that was just at calving time, or if that was loss before weaning. I have a 2% calving loss rate around here with 100 lb average calves on 12 - 1500 lb cows (very few 1500s), and these are stillborn or oddities like calves being stepped on, birth defects, or coyotes getting them. In the last 7 years, I haven't lost a calf to hard birthing and other than this year with that odd behaving bull, I pull 1 in 60 calves. Of course, now that I've said that, the next calving season I'll lose 25% of my calves and end up pulling half of them. :lol:

I feel that if I've done a proper job of bull selection, my cows had better be able to deliver 7-8% of their body weight otherwise they can find new homes.

Rod

I'm with Rod on this one. I don't like to see those little wee calves, first off, we calve in March, and if we have a calf that doesn't get up/licked off well, or whatever, the smaller ones are the ones that die. The larger ones usually make it. Also in my experience, those <75 lb calves usually are 100-150 lbs lighter at weaning than the 95 lb calves. I will buy a 100+lb bull (that is built right) before I would even look at a really light BW one. It is all about growth in this business, and while a dead calf brings you nothing, as long as my cows can handle 95+ lb calves that is what I will target. They almost always out grow the low BW ones. And I can say that it is very rare that we lose a calf due to too large a BW.

 

[KNERSIE]

I have spotted this thread a little late, but enjoyed all the varying opinions.

I don't "aim" for a certain weight calf, but my calves are usually all in the 75-90lb range. When breeding heifers I select a bull with a breed average BW EBV with a high accuracy (last one I used was 96% acc). The way I figure that if I want to sell heifers in future they better be able to deliver a live calf of breed average size unassisted, otherwise I won't sell any breeding stock to that customer again and as soon as word of mouth goes around you will soon not be able to sell any breeding stock to anyone.

 

[Caustic Burno]

BW gets to much attention.
Try to keep it under 100 lbs and you should be fine.
75-85 is perfect, but we all know the bull that averages 80 will give you a 120 and a 50 at times in the same year.
Had that very thing happen this year with the clean up bull.

I worry more about shape. But thats just me....

MD

Thats a BS reply as you can not sell dead calfs or crippled cows for a premium. BW and Calving ease are the number one thing to look for. If I have a cow that has a 100 pound calf I am culling her I do not want those genetics anywhere around.

Does that mean you load the bull up and sell him too? Half the genetics are his. Better sell all the other calves out of him too, just to be safe.......since you got the trailer hooked up anyway.

You show your ignorance with each post. Do you even own any cows.
Anyone that has ran cows more than 30 days knows you can put a low BW bull on cows and still have some anomolies. You don't want these.

That was my point CB, even the best bull will toss you something to think about. So I worry about shape,at least as much or more than BW.
Somehow this is BS, you didnt answer my last post I assume you are willing to admit that you are full of crap?


MD

Birthweight is number one. You can't work on growth weaning weights or yearling weights without a live calf.
I guess if you are one of these ranchers that walks around behind a cow with a set of chains it doesn't matter.
A cow here has to work she has to deliver a live calf unassisted and raise it or she is fired. It is unrealistic to ask a cow to work with a high birthrate bull and expect few problems.
Currrently I am at a 98% calving rate for the year and evryone of those little boogers you can sell.

 

[MikeC]

You're doing it much too easy CB.

I like a little "Intrigue" in my calving season. :lol: :lol:

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I guess if you are one of these ranchers that walks around behind a cow with a set of chains it doesn't matter.

I like the quote, but I also like 100 lb calves and don't even know where my chains are most of the time.

Rod

 

[redfornow]

BW gets to much attention.
Try to keep it under 100 lbs and you should be fine.
75-85 is perfect, but we all know the bull that averages 80 will give you a 120 and a 50 at times in the same year.
Had that very thing happen this year with the clean up bull.

I worry more about shape. But thats just me....

MD

Thats a BS reply as you can not sell dead calfs or crippled cows for a premium. BW and Calving ease are the number one thing to look for. If I have a cow that has a 100 pound calf I am culling her I do not want those genetics anywhere around.

Does that mean you load the bull up and sell him too? Half the genetics are his. Better sell all the other calves out of him too, just to be safe.......since you got the trailer hooked up anyway.

You show your ignorance with each post. Do you even own any cows.
Anyone that has ran cows more than 30 days knows you can put a low BW bull on cows and still have some anomolies. You don't want these.

That was my point CB, even the best bull will toss you something to think about. So I worry about shape,at least as much or more than BW.
Somehow this is BS, you didnt answer my last post I assume you are willing to admit that you are full of crap?


MD

Birthweight is number one. You can't work on growth weaning weights or yearling weights without a live calf.
I guess if you are one of these ranchers that walks around behind a cow with a set of chains it doesn't matter.
A cow here has to work she has to deliver a live calf unassisted and raise it or she is fired. It is unrealistic to ask a cow to work with a high birthrate bull and expect few problems.
Currrently I am at a 98% calving rate for the year and evryone of those little boogers you can sell.

CB


Whatever, your first comment was simple BS, must have just wanted to type stuff that day I reckon.

Next time you throw the BS flag know what your are talking about.

When you are right I will be a man and say old CB you are right.
But thats just me I go by a different code I guess.

MD

 

[Caustic Burno]

BW gets to much attention.
Try to keep it under 100 lbs and you should be fine.
75-85 is perfect, but we all know the bull that averages 80 will give you a 120 and a 50 at times in the same year.
Had that very thing happen this year with the clean up bull.

I worry more about shape. But thats just me....

MD

Lets see you said birthweight gets to much attention which is what the BS flag was thrown on.

I see birthweight and CE as the number one and two epd, nothing else matters until you get a live calf here.
What is your calving %? For every calf loss, for every injured cow in delivery profit goes down the drain.
I am in this for profit if your not it doesn't matter.

 

[redfornow]

BW gets to much attention.
Try to keep it under 100 lbs and you should be fine.
75-85 is perfect, but we all know the bull that averages 80 will give you a 120 and a 50 at times in the same year.
Had that very thing happen this year with the clean up bull.

I worry more about shape. But thats just me....

MD

Lets see you said birthweight gets to much attention which is what the BS flag was thrown on.

I see birthweight and CE as the number one and two epd, nothing else matters until you get a live calf here.
What is your calving %? For every calf loss, for every injured cow in delivery profit goes down the drain.
I am in this for profit if your not it doesn't matter.

I see CE as 1 and BW as 2, if you ignore 1 it doesnt matter what 2 is, now does it?
I am glad you are in it for profit. lol Why esle would anyone do this? Thats about a stupid a statement as your BS flag on BW getting to much attention.
Have you ever had a hard pull on a 70 lb calf?
If you are more than a hobby boy you have. If not I totally understand why you dont "get" what I am talking about.

I lost a 106 lb monster backwards this year. Thats my first loss in alittle more than 4 years. That includes calving out 10 to 15 heifers a year during that time. Not counting the big girls.


MD

 

[Caustic Burno]

BW gets to much attention.
Try to keep it under 100 lbs and you should be fine.
75-85 is perfect, but we all know the bull that averages 80 will give you a 120 and a 50 at times in the same year.
Had that very thing happen this year with the clean up bull.

I worry more about shape. But thats just me....

MD

Lets see you said birthweight gets to much attention which is what the BS flag was thrown on.

I see birthweight and CE as the number one and two epd, nothing else matters until you get a live calf here.
What is your calving %? For every calf loss, for every injured cow in delivery profit goes down the drain.
I am in this for profit if your not it doesn't matter.

I see CE as 1 and BW as 2, if you ignore 1 it doesnt matter what 2 is, now does it?
I am glad you are in it for profit. lol Why esle would anyone do this? Thats about a stupid a statement as your BS flag on BW getting to much attention.
Have you ever had a hard pull on a 70 lb calf?
If you are more than a hobby boy you have. If not I totally understand why you dont "get" what I am talking about.

I lost a 106 lb monster backwards this year. Thats my first loss in alittle more than 4 years. That includes calving out 10 to 15 heifers a year during that time. Not counting the big girls.


MD

Well I guess you have time to trot around after 10 or 15 cows and wait for one to drop. You either have a very small herd to loose only one in 4 years or a .
Keep in mind hobby boy you mentioned nothing about calving ease in your first post.
I was the one that stated BW and Calving ease. Quit trying to Crawfish.

 

[redfornow]

CB,

Do you know the difference between a cow and a heifer?

You can do a search if you dont know, these terms are hard for you hobby guys?
While you are doing the search look up CE and the shape of the calf and see if the two MAY go hand in hand.

Just take a look and get back with me.
You might be an old dog but I bet you can learn a new trick.


MD

 

[la4angus]

I think I heard on here that a good goal is 8% of mature cow weight. Heifers are a little less.

You may be right, but I was always told that 7% of a cows weight is a good goal to shoot for, for her calves. This would put a 1200 lb cow having an 84 lb calf as the goal.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB,

Do you know the difference between a cow and a heifer?

You can do a search if you dont know, these terms are hard for you hobby guys?
While you are doing the search look up CE and the shape of the calf and see if the two MAY go hand in hand.

Just take a look and get back with me.
You might be an old dog but I bet you can learn a new trick.


MD

Get back on track you made a BS statement about birthweight never any mention of CE. Then again you may not know the difference.
If you refer back to the original post I brought up the importance of CE with BW and now you are trying to claim you did.
First trick you might want to learn is when you mess it it up admitt it.

 

[redfornow]

Yep, anytime I point out your a screw up we need to get back on track, I got kids like you.

Heifer and a cow. I know hard to tell the difference
CE and shape. hard to tell how they go together.

You do remember me mentioning shape in my first post dont you? What do you think I was refering to?
I know its hard, and I gave you credit for being smarter than you are. My fault.

I have proved my point, I will try to go away before this tread gets locked.
Good luck with your eight cows old cb,

MD

 

[Caustic Burno]

Yep, anytime I point out your a screw up we need to get back on track, I got kids like you.

Heifer and a cow. I know hard to tell the difference
CE and shape. hard to tell how they go together.

You do remember me mentioning shape in my first post dont you? What do you think I was refering to?
I know its hard, and I gave you credit for being smarter than you are. My fault.

I have proved my point, I will try to go away before this tread gets locked.
Good luck with your eight cows old cb,

MD

Don't worry about getting the thread locked.
I actually thought you owned cattle my fault you BSed me good.
You are right in your first post you pointed out bw and ce importance or was that two or three later when you changed your tune.

 

[dun]

Now kids! If you don;t behave you'll have to go to bed without supper.

dun