Totally newbie question. I've been looking a gobs of pictures of cattle and have noticed that most all *show* bulls are HUGE as are the bulls that different ranches/farms sell for breeding or seman, etc. My question is it mostly genetics, genetics plus feed, mostly feed or what that makes these bulls so large? Growth hormones? It just seems they are much larger looking than the average bull you see in peoples pastures that they use for breeding. Thanks.
bull size
- Thread starter spoon
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
spoon":2fljz0de said:
Both genetics and feed. Generally it seems that show stock is bigger than regular, practical cattle. They are also well fed and grown out. Working bulls will usually lose weight while they're working in the pasture, but a bull that's "at stud" or being touted at a production sale will be well fed.
if you can put one of those show bulls out on a herd and they dont melt you have a good one. the bulls you see are feed nearly 25lbs of grain a day to keep up there size. a good bull to me is one that holds up on a herd.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Genetics first, than feed. You can't "feed" greatness into a poor animal, but you can make a poor animal out of a great one with lack of feed.
"Growth Hormones" - Better not be! they won't be producing any semen!
Pictures are supposed to make them look thick, full, solid, masculine. Any non-working bovine will look "bigger" than a working one. Cattle that are being shown or are being collected are being fed to meet their genetic potential.
"Growth Hormones" - Better not be! they won't be producing any semen!
Pictures are supposed to make them look thick, full, solid, masculine. Any non-working bovine will look "bigger" than a working one. Cattle that are being shown or are being collected are being fed to meet their genetic potential.
good point. good bulls look awesome on 25 lbs of grain a day. they look good on grass and working. poor bulls cannot be feed out to look awesome. to me being new to the cattle world a good bull looks good on feed and on grass. i dont like the bulls that melt away on grass working.
jvicars":y7jgkx7w said:
There is an argument to the so-called "meltdown" of bulls on cows.
In my opinion, bulls that "melt" faster possess a higher incidence of libido and lose weight faster because they are busy servicing cows more than the easy keepers.
Sometimes their urge is so strong they won't eat for days.
It's not because they have been fed grain either.
If I put a bull in with cows and he doesn't lose some weight, he is gone from not doing his job in a timely manner.
Now when they get older and learn the ropes, they won't breed any one single cow so many times and have the susceptibility to keep more flesh.
But a virgin 2 year old should be expected to lose weight.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Mike C - I agree. I actually saw some info that picking bulls for high IMF is creating more low-libido bulls - being that the laid back, non-aggressive bulls put more IMF in naturally.
Thought that was interesting.
Thought that was interesting.
grannysoo
Well-known member
This type of bull is an entirely different market and culture than what most people do.
Bulls that are 25 feet long and weigh 5000 pounds (a little stretch of the mind here ) don't have a place in my herd.
Keep breeding the largest animals to the largest animals and you'll get large animals. Breed till you get those that are as big as a truck........
My personal opinion is much smaller framed quality cattle. Buy good stock, feed them and you'll have great looking animals. My young bull was looking fat and sassy until I pimped him onto my herd. Poor rascal lost weight, was not so filled out, but had a heck of a lot of fun. He's gaining some weight back now.
Bulls that are 25 feet long and weigh 5000 pounds (a little stretch of the mind here
) don't have a place in my herd. Keep breeding the largest animals to the largest animals and you'll get large animals. Breed till you get those that are as big as a truck........
My personal opinion is much smaller framed quality cattle. Buy good stock, feed them and you'll have great looking animals. My young bull was looking fat and sassy until I pimped him onto my herd. Poor rascal lost weight, was not so filled out, but had a heck of a lot of fun. He's gaining some weight back now.
I don't buy in to the "smaller is better" game. If that were true, everyone would be breeding the "mini cattle", or the frame 00's.
I saw some feedlot data on some Lowline sired calves from last year.
The owners lost their butts on that deal. Didn't grow and converted feed horribly.
grannysoo
Well-known member
MikeC":39uvbiga said:
I'm not saying to have and breed "mini" cows. Mine are full size, full framed, and big boned. What most people would call "normal"........
Smaller only when compared to the "super cows".
Its dependent on your market. I'm not defending lowline. I think they are a bit small. But if I can knock 100# off the finished steer weight, thats less time to finish on grass. I'm thinking out loud here. Been wrestling with this thought for some time now. A goal is to finish on grass in 18 months. I'm very close to that goal. Knocking that 100# off the top would get me very close. But there is more to it. Economics will come into play somewhere, as well as genetics. anyway I've set up a breeding plan to knock 100# off the momma's. That will put me at 1000# cows, estimated finish weight for steers at 1100#.MikeC":3lu81cho said:
grannysoo
Well-known member
MikeC":1s86n60a said:
No problem. I'd much rather have a bottle in front of me too my friend.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Boy, I must be missing something here. I can't remember the last time I saw a frame 7 Simmental bull advertised. The bulls I see are far from being "giants". Yes, they are gutty, thick, deep, heavy muscled - isn't this what we NEED in our industry?
"Most" people are looking for a bull that will increase the weights of their weaned calves, without calving difficulty & without drastically increasing the FRAME size.
I just don't see these "big as a truck" bulls being promoted any more.
"Most" people are looking for a bull that will increase the weights of their weaned calves, without calving difficulty & without drastically increasing the FRAME size.
I just don't see these "big as a truck" bulls being promoted any more.
novatech
Well-known member
This frame size thing really bugs me. Frame size is only an indicator of height? I have seen some frame size 5 cattle that are "as big as a truck". I have seen some feather weight frame size 7.Jeanne - Simme Valley":1me85eaa said:
I'm I getting this frame size thing all wrong?
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Yes, you are correct. But, if they are smaller frame size with heavier "natural" weights, than that means they are easier keeping type.
You can have a frame 5 animal weigh the same as a frame 8. In your mind, you can picture what they look like. IF this weight is natural, not grain fed fat, you have a well muscled frame 5 animal and a light muscled, gutless frame 8.
You can have a frame 5 animal weigh the same as a frame 8. In your mind, you can picture what they look like. IF this weight is natural, not grain fed fat, you have a well muscled frame 5 animal and a light muscled, gutless frame 8.
novatech":w90sx5je said:
Frame score is strictly measured by hip height. The table that shows frame score X = weight Y is a bunch of "expletive deleted". It's srictly a figure based I suppose on the average, what ever that is.
novatech
Well-known member
I guess what I am getting at is that frame size is thrown around these boards as if it the most important factor in the breeding business. To me all it is, is an indicator of length of leg. When I think of frame score I would like to see all the dimensions, along with weight. By itself Frame score is totally useless. It is a term I find way over used in describing cattle.Jeanne - Simme Valley":s3ntxsoe said:
novatech":ouv048ub said:
That's the reason that FS and weight are a more important measurment. We have a couple of FS 6 that weigh around 1600 lbs, according to the charts they should be FS 9. There really isn;t a lot of difference in acutal height between a FS 6 and a 6.5. But I like cows that I can at least see over the backs of.
