Bull prospect

[Travlr]

If your mating is off two individuals that are closer related to each other then the mean degree of relatedness you are in breeding. If you are mating two individuals who are not related closer then the mean degree of relatedness you are outcrossing.
Blue eyed people are more closer related to each other then the mean population.
They're for you are inbreeding. Doesn't matter if the original mutation occurred yesterday or 100,000 years ago .
If the parents are closer related to each other you are in breeding.

Inbreeding: Its Meaning, Uses and Effects on Farm Animals | MU Extension

Mating schemes of animals are classified as either inbreeding or outbreeding. Mating closely related animals is inbreeding. Outbreeding is mating less closely related animals, but people disagree about where to draw the line. Learn more in this guide. | /**/ Dale Vogt, Helen A. Swartz and John...

extension.missouri.edu

The "mean degree of relatedness" is a factor of all genetic traits in a population... not a single trait. You misunderstand the terms being used.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

-" There "are purebred breeders that are just multipliers. All cattle have registration papers and are promoted as purebred of XYZ breed."

Beefmasters are a 3 way cross of Hereford, Shorthorn and Brahma. The bad hereford udders were bred out of them, the shorthorn made good milkers and the bos indicus Brahma gave them hybrid heterosis without continous outcross. It is bred for a phenotype that has to work in their environment. Not a lot of attention paid to pedigrees, but to what works. The original Lasater cattle were tight skinned. The ranchers in south Texas bred for so much hanging skin to shed the heat they started having big troubles with uterine prolapses. So the breed switched to two different registries as the Lasater breeders saying they were not working (prolapses) in their enviornment and did not want to retain this trait in the breed. Recently they have gotten back together and tightened up the skin.

Here in Oregon all the cattle I see are mixtures of Angus, Charlaise and Limosine because that's what works with commercial cows. Even the homebred bulls are crossbred. This Angus looking bull, one of their best bulls known as the Speciman, had Charlaise in the woodpile because he threw this fawn colored calf. He was finally sold for meat at the age of 20.


Heck, The Specimen may have has some Jersey in him for the extra milk. Kind of like the Beefmasters with the shorthorn blood.

I don't really care about the pedigree of my Jersey cows. That was all taken care of by the working dairy breeders. I am an end user.

 

[Rmc]

The "mean degree of relatedness" is a factor of all genetic traits in a population... not a single trait. You misunderstand the terms being used.

Not quite. The single trait is just being used as an indicator of relatedness.
Recessive genes can't be expressed without line breeding to occur. Blue eyed people are closer genetically to each other than the mean degree of relatedness.

 

[Rmc]

Behind Blue Eyes: A Look at the Genetic and Cultural Components that Propelled the Spread of Blue-Eyed Humans

The College of Physicians has worked to advance the cause of health while upholding the ideals and heritage of medicine since 1787.

cpp-college.netlify.app

The Family Tree of Blue-Eyed Individuals - The Genetic Genealogist

Researchers at the University of Copenhagen suggest that a mutation that arose around 6,000 to 10,000 years ago was inherited by every individual who has blue eyes (original study here). This mutation, located within an intron in a gene called… Continue reading →

thegeneticgenealogist.com

 

[Travlr]

Not quite. The single trait is just being used as an indicator of relatedness.
Recessive genes can't be expressed without line breeding to occur. Blue eyed people are closer genetically to each other than the mean degree of relatedness.

That's not true but I'm not going to argue with you about it. Figure it out for yourself.

I've seen you do this on several threads. Come in roaring with some really decent information... and then pervert it into something that doesn't exist. Inventing a train of nebulous logic doesn't mean your rabbit hole is real, and it's very apparent that you like to double down on anyone questioning the conclusions you try to sell. I'd love to play poker with you, especially if you brought lots of money to the table... but I'm not your guy to argue invented interpretations.

A mean is the average of a data set.

 

[Rmc]

That's not true but I'm not going to argue with you about it. Figure it out for yourself.

I've seen you do this on several threads. Come in roaring with some really decent information... and then pervert it into something that doesn't exist. Inventing a train of nebulous logic doesn't mean your rabbit hole is real, and it's very apparent that you like to double down on anyone questioning the conclusions you try to sell. I'd love to play poker with you, especially if you brought lots of money to the table... but I'm not your guy to argue invented interpretations.

A mean is the average of a data set.

Directly for the article from University of Missouri I posted earlier

Sorry that the science and research and documentation I have linked here wich back up my statements seem to be a little above you abilities or willingness to read and comprehend. The proof is in the links provided.
Blue eyes have been linked through genetics to a single individual 7-10,000 years ago. All descendants identified had the H-1haplotype.
Also had the same set of 13 snp mutations on chromosome 15.
All who process the blue eyed mutation
Are closer related to each other than the mean degree of relatedness to the population as a whole. There for any mating of two blue eyed individuals is a mating of closer related individuals then the population mean degree of relatedness. There for it is linebreeding.
Very simple basic science. Matings that are closer than mean degree of relatedness of the entire population are line breeding or inbreeding.
Matings of two individuals with a degree of relatedness less than the mean of the entire population is outcross.
As I have said before and will say again . Don't let scientific facts and research get in the way of your opinion.
Bury you head in the sand and ignore the science and research placed right in front of you.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Not quite. The single trait is just being used as an indicator of relatedness.
Recessive genes can't be expressed without line breeding to occur. Blue eyed people are closer genetically to each other than the mean degree of relatedness.

The only requirement for a recessive gene to be expressed is for the parents to each contribute a copy of the recessive gene to the progeny. The parents do not have to necessarily be "related" which is part of line breeding. Individual animals are determined to be 'related' when they are descended within 6 generations from a common individual.

Recessive genes can be expressed outside the boundaries of line breeding.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

"Don't let scientific facts and research get in the way of your opinion.
Bury you head in the sand and ignore the science and research placed right in front of you."

I see you practice what you preach.

 

[Travlr]

Directly for the article from University of Missouri I posted earlier
View attachment 31294
Sorry that the science and research and documentation I have linked here wich back up my statements seem to be a little above you abilities or willingness to read and comprehend. The proof is in the links provided.
Blue eyes have been linked through genetics to a single individual 7-10,000 years ago. All descendants identified had the H-1haplotype.
Also had the same set of 13 snp mutations on chromosome 15.
All who process the blue eyed mutation
Are closer related to each other than the mean degree of relatedness to the population as a whole. There for any mating of two blue eyed individuals is a mating of closer related individuals then the population mean degree of relatedness. There for it is linebreeding.
Very simple basic science. Matings that are closer than mean degree of relatedness of the entire population are line breeding or inbreeding.
Matings of two individuals with a degree of relatedness less than the mean of the entire population is outcross.
As I have said before and will say again . Don't let scientific facts and research get in the way of your opinion.
Bury you head in the sand and ignore the science and research placed right in front of you.

Wrong in your interpretation of what is being said, but I'm not going to explain it to you. You need different bait...

 

[Rmc]

Wrong in your interpretation of what is being said, but I'm not going to explain it to you. You need different bait...

So are you really claiming that blue eyed people are not closer related to each other then the degree of relatedness of the entire human population?
That is what you claim in a earlier post.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

I find it interesting some of the tangents that threads end up going. This has strayed a bit from "Bull prospect". I didnt meant to annoy, frustrate or upset anyone.

the blue eyed chinaman had me wondering

 

[Ebenezer]

Do honeybees with or without blue eyes help improve the breeding of production livestock? There sure seem to be some tangents to nowhere.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Do honeybees with or without blue eyes help improve the breeding of production livestock? There sure seem to be some tangents to nowhere.

Only if they are Chinese or Mexican, possibly Irish.

 

[BFE]

Only if they are Chinese or Mexican, possibly Irish.

I would quote Blazing Saddles here, but the mods would spank me for it.

 

[Rmc]

the blue eyed chinaman had me wondering

Only if they are Chinese or Mexican, possibly Irish.

Not to burst your yuck yucking bury your head in the sand fest but a little bit of scientific research my actually suprise some if they are will to actually look at it

Face of Cheddar Man Revealed

UCL minds sequenced the DNA of Britain’s oldest near-complete skeleton, Cheddar Man, and found he was blue-eyed and dark-skinned – sharing the appearance of other Western European hunter-gatherers.

www.ucl.ac.uk

Not only did the oldest European that they have been able to get dna from, have blue eyes and dark skin ,many of the early dna samples analyzed from early Europe indicate blue eyed dark skinned individuals.
So sorry to burst your bubble but blue eyed and light skin didn't occur at the same time . And blue eyes and light skin are not genetically linked.

 

[Travlr]

Not to burst your yuck yucking bury your head in the sand fest but a little bit of scientific research my actually suprise some if they are will to actually look at it

Face of Cheddar Man Revealed

UCL minds sequenced the DNA of Britain’s oldest near-complete skeleton, Cheddar Man, and found he was blue-eyed and dark-skinned – sharing the appearance of other Western European hunter-gatherers.

www.ucl.ac.uk

Not only did the oldest European that they have been able to get dna from, have blue eyes and dark skin ,many of the early dna samples analyzed from early Europe indicate blue eyed dark skinned individuals.
So sorry to burst your bubble but blue eyed and light skin didn't occur at the same time . And blue eyes and light skin are not genetically linked.

Okay... now extrapolate.

There are blue eyed Australian aborigines from a gene pool that has been isolated between10 and 30K years from the rest of the human gene pool.

Think about that in terms of a mean.

Maybe you'll get it if you aren't so invested in your prior conclusions gleaned from incomplete internet sources.

 

[Rmc]

Okay... now extrapolate.

There are blue eyed Australian aborigines from a gene pool that has been isolated between10 and 30K years from the rest of the human gene pool.

Think about that in terms of a mean.

Maybe you'll get it if you aren't so invested in your prior conclusions gleaned from incomplete internet sources.

Directly from some of the research that you either didn't read or immediately discount because the research doesn't support your opinion.

You should know by now that I am a genetics junky and have deeply studied it for years . If you think I only have received my genetics info . From incomplete online sources you are a fool.
I unlike you and many others am not afraid of posting research and science that supports my opinions. But some continue to jump up and down saying you are wrong ,you are wrong .but are unwilling to provide research that supports their opinions let alone being willing and able to debate it .

 

[Travlr]

Directly from some of the research that you either didn't read or immediately discount because the research doesn't support your opinion.
View attachment 31316
You should know by now that I am a genetics junky and have deeply studied it for years . If you think I only have received my genetics info . From incomplete online sources you are a fool.
I unlike you and many others am not afraid of posting research and science that supports my opinions. But some continue to jump up and down saying you are wrong ,you are wrong .but are unwilling to provide research that supports their opinions let alone being willing and able to debate it .

I knew it... but I had to try. Some of the most educated people in the world never learned to think.

Maybe you'll have a midnight epiphany. Probably not.

Be well...

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

For some interesting genetic information send swab of saliva from you and your wife to Ancestry or 23andMe or some such. You can see the place of origen on Earth of your DNA and percentages from different parts of the world. You might find your wife has been doing some outcrossing and you are not the dad.

 

[Rmc]

For some interesting genetic information send swab of saliva from you and your wife to Ancestry or 23andMe or some such. You can see the place of origen on Earth of your DNA and percentages from different parts of the world. You might find your wife has been doing some outcrossing and you are not the dad.

Sounds like a Jerry Springer episode to me.