Travlr
Well-known member
Yeah... that's what they all say just before they hit the brick wall.If your calves are improving, then its working.
Too cocky to wear a seat belt too...
Yeah... that's what they all say just before they hit the brick wall.If your calves are improving, then its working.
45 years.... no brick wall yet. Guess, we're doing something right.Yeah... that's what they all say just before they hit the brick wall.
Too cocky to wear a seat belt too...
And of course you have no clue what kind of damage you might be doing in the meantime...45 years.... no brick wall yet. Guess, we're doing something right.
When we bought reg angus, we got occasional birth defects. That was years ago. We quit getting reg angus. I cant recall a single birth defect since. Not sure what i should be looking for that you seem concerned about.And of course you have no clue what kind of damage you might be doing in the meantime...
Your calves are nice looking. They look healthy. But a lot of genetically damaged animals look healthy. And if you aren't intentionally inbreeding, trying to sculpt some kind of performance out of your stock, then it's likely you'll be fine. But inbreeding is dangerous by accident occasionally too. There are too many examples of bad outcomes that have done major damage for a smart producer to ignore.
I've wondered about the size of some of the cows mentioned here. Someone tell me the thought process of why you want a big cow. The thought process I use is that you actually want a smaller cow because she will consume fewer resources (cost less) in terms of hay and pasture, or be able to have more cows for the resources available, and the calf the cow is producing has an 'ideal' market size that is independent of the cow size.
In other words:
500# calf on a big cow costs $$$ in resources
500# calf on a small cow costs $ in resources (or the same $ in resources but more cows which means more calves)
You seem to be thinking I'm attacking you... when all I'm saying is that inbreeding has a history of people having problems if they don't know what they are doing. Some get lucky, some don't. Some sell the problems they create and spread it without ever knowing.When we bought reg angus, we got occasional birth defects. That was years ago. We quit getting reg angus. I cant recall a single birth defect since. Not sure what i should be looking for that you seem concerned about.
Not my intent, but it wouldn't be the first time I've stepped in a cow pie. I know some producers want a small cow, some want a big cow, some want a cow with a certain frame size, some aren't particular. Economics don't necessarily drive everything, but they are usually a major factor. To compound the issue, there are multiple factors that go into economics. I'm just curious about decisions made and what drives the decisions.Mark, you're gonna get yourself in trouble with those comments on cow size.
Nah, i'm just wondering what brick wall you're referring to.You seem to be thinking I'm attacking you... when all I'm saying is that inbreeding has a history of people having problems if they don't know what they are doing. Some get lucky, some don't. Some sell the problems they create and spread it without ever knowing.
And yeah, Angus had some real problems due to inbreeding. They've gone to a lot of trouble and expense to rectify the issues being spread. And the problems they had were in bulls bred by people that were well versed in genetic potentials.
Considering how easy it is to not inbreed... I prefer to improve my animals by out breeding. I wish you well. Do as you wish. Good luck.
Inbreeding doesn't create problems it can expose them.You seem to be thinking I'm attacking you... when all I'm saying is that inbreeding has a history of people having problems if they don't know what they are doing. Some get lucky, some don't. Some sell the problems they create and spread it without ever knowing.
And yeah, Angus had some real problems due to inbreeding. They've gone to a lot of trouble and expense to rectify the issues being spread. And the problems they had were in bulls bred by people that were well versed in genetic potentials.
Considering how easy it is to not inbreed... I prefer to improve my animals by out breeding. I wish you well. Do as you wish. Good luck.
You seem to be thinking I'm attacking you... when all I'm saying is that inbreeding has a history of people having problems if they don't know what they are doing. Some get lucky, some don't. Some sell the problems they create and spread it without ever knowing.
And yeah, Angus had some real problems due to inbreeding. They've gone to a lot of trouble and expense to rectify the issues being spread. And the problems they had were in bulls bred by people that were well versed in genetic potentials.
Considering how easy it is to not inbreed... I prefer to improve my animals by out breeding. I wish you well. Do as you wish. Good luck.
In Arkansas most people were running 1000 to 1200 pound cows. In South Dakota we ran 13 to 1500 pound cows because of the winter temps. I tried to run heavier cows in Arkansas, 11/1300 because I was looking for heavier weaning weights.Not my intent, but it wouldn't be the first time I've stepped in a cow pie. I know some producers want a small cow, some want a big cow, some want a cow with a certain frame size, some aren't particular. Economics don't necessarily drive everything, but they are usually a major factor. To compound the issue, there are multiple factors that go into economics. I'm just curious about decisions made and what drives the decisions.
Nah, i'm just wondering what brick wall you're referring to.
Everything you listed is a genetic defect, the only thing line breeding does is bring it to the surface. They are all problems that need to be faced and delt with sooner rather then later.And these are only the ones listed. New abnormalities crop up and disappear because they are caught early and any surviving calves are terminal, and the herd they come from are terminated too.
- These are brick walls
- achondroplasia (bulldog dwarfism)
- alopecia
- ankylosis
- arthrogryposis (palate-pastern syndrome, rigid joints)
- arthrogryposis multiplex (AM, curly calf syndrome)
- brachynathia inferior (parrot mouth)
- cryptorchidism
- dermoid (feather eyes)
- double muscling
- fawn calf syndrome
- hypotrichosis (hairlessness)
- hypotrichosis ("rat-tail")
- idiopathic epilepsy (IE)
- mannosidosis
- neuraxial edema (maple syrup urine disease)
- neuropathic hydrocephalus (NH, "water-head")
- oculocutaneous hypopigmentation (white eyes)
- osteopetrosis (marble bone disease)
- polydactyly (extra toes)
- progressive bovine myeloencephaly (weaver calf)
- prolonged gestation
- protoporphyria (photosensitivity)
- pulmonary hypoplasia with anasarca (PHA)
- syndactyly (mule foot)
- tibial hemimelia (TH)
- translocations
I know a (human) couple that married and had three kids even though they are first cousins. They appear healthy. Their kids are all deaf.
And as for me "understanding", (@Allenw @elkwc), I'll stick to the fact that most people practicing inbreeding/line breeding don't know as much as they think they do. You can gang up on me all you want and it doesn't make either of us right or wrong. The list speaks for itself.
And how do you "deal" with genetic defects before they show up? How do you avoid them?Everything you listed is a genetic defect, the only thing line breeding does is bring it to the surface. They are all problems that need to be faced and delt with sooner rather then later.