Breeding for Longivity

[Son of Butch]

If you are doing all of the right things, culling should be heavy in the early learning and sifting years and should decrease to minimal amounts as you fine tune, learn and develop animals that fit your environment. If you stay at a high or constant level of necessary culling for things other than age or physical injury you need to find somebody near you who is doing minimal culling and find out the differences.

That's always good advice, to find out what is successful in your local area.

 

[Nesikep]

I just re read part of Newman Turner' 1952 Herdsmanship book. No DNA or EPD numbers back then, so he focused on identifying "self breeders" who were prepotent for key traits. He felt culling was a negative practice, and that focusing more on selection would result in a better herd. The how to example that stuck with me was selecting bulls from top cow families in closely bred herds.

I have a couple cows that seem to make clones of themselves every time.. Incidentally, they're also my best cows and the ones I kept my own bull from.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

How to add longevity? Add Brahman.

 

[Nesikep]

If you want a herd of dead animals up here, add Brahman.. too cold for them

 

[French Anne]

Hi.
I breed cows in France. I can't compare my systèm to the US one, but my oldest cow is 19 and she never had any problem, she has one calf per year.
I would like to say that for me, the solution is most of all the feed.
Don't make them obese. My cows only eat grass and hay. No minérals. When you gîve them so muche (minérals, cereals...) you change their genetic parameters and make fragile cows.
That's my opinion....

 

[Ebenezer]

Hi.
No minérals. When you gîve them so muche (minérals, cereals...) you change their genetic parameters and make fragile cows.
That's my opinion....

Has a lot to do with the soil. How does feed affect the genetics? Is this Omega 3 vs. Omega 6?

Another way to look at it: do you try to eat a balanced diet and do doctors there recommend vitamins and minerals for humans at any point? Does a human taking a vitamin or eating a balanced diet to ingest an array of minerals and vitamins tend to make them frail or healthy? Why would livestock be different?

 

[French Anne]

Has a lot to do with the soil. How does feed affect the genetics? Is this Omega 3 vs. Omega 6?

Another way to look at it: do you try to eat a balanced diet and do doctors there recommend vitamins and minerals for humans at any point? Does a human taking a vitamin or eating a balanced diet to ingest an array of minerals and vitamins tend to make them frail or healthy? Why would livestock be different?

First, I think it's difficult to compare humans to cows. Moreover, I'm not sure that all the vitamins humans take makes them older. In France, life expectancy is decreasing... Centenaries were generations born in the 30's.. I'm not sure to be one day a centenary. But that's another debate.

I have that opinion because I work with the Aubrac breed, and I choose my bloodlines also according to the feed of the animals. For example, a great Aubrac breeder bought last year a bull which had a fascinating pedigree... But his previous owner gave him so much complements. The breeder who had bought the bull had ONLY 4 calves out of him. 4 instead of 40!!! And the 4 were missed, they couldn't live, while this bull had ever produce beautiful calves when he was younger.
The vet told us that the bull had a rotten liver.... A BULL......
It proves that the health of the animal is transmitted by genetic. It's scientifically proven that the diet alters the genetic EPI.

I'm just a witness of that fact. Half of my herd is more than 12 years old.

Sorry if I made spelling mistakes...

 

[Nesikep]

Perhaps you have a better mineral balance in the soil where you are, but around here, it's critical to feed minerals, Copper, Phosphorus, and Selenium are the big 3... I don't feed any grain or other concentrated feeds though, they have to make do with grass and hay. I try and keep my cows in good condition, but none are obese (though some have big bellies).

 

[WalnutCrest]

What do you think of operators who brag about flipping their cow herd after 3 or 4 years of super dupper bulls?

Most registered Angus herds last for 7 years, on the average. "Nuf said.

That's the second time in the last week I've read someone alluding to this. If there is a source, I'd love to read it.

Another way to get older cows is to use old bulls who are still capable of naturally servicing cows.

 

[Banjo]

Hi.
I breed cows in France. I can't compare my systèm to the US one, but my oldest cow is 19 and she never had any problem, she has one calf per year.
I would like to say that for me, the solution is most of all the feed.
Don't make them obese. My cows only eat grass and hay. No minérals. When you gîve them so muche (minérals, cereals...) you change their genetic parameters and make fragile cows.
That's my opinion....

Interesting thoughts. Been reading a book called Periodic Fasting......it talks about the benefits of fasting 2 or 3 times a week from 16 to 24 hrs and also having a calorie restricted diet or simply not eating till you can't breathe. Same thing can be applied to animals I think too.
Come to think of it, I seldom see anyone up in years...90 or more...that is fat.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

Alas but we are breeding for longevity, not feeding for longevity, which is entirely a different discussion.

 

[Banjo]

Alas but we are breeding for longevity, not feeding for longevity, which is entirely a different discussion.

Maybe, but are the two not intertwined somewhat?
If I have close relatives that lived into their 90's or 100's, does that mean I will, regardless of how fat I get?
Conversely, if my relatives don't live past 75 does that mean I can't even if I am disciplined in managing my weight and eating behavior?

 

[Nesikep]

I think there was a study on house cats and being obese.. For cats, it doesn't affect their lifespan.. I think with cattle, it's good if they hold condition and put on fat when they aren't milking, but a cow that doesn't lose some fat when she is milking is one that's short changing the calf... Depending on the environment, she may be good, but she's probably not optimal where she is... Likewise a cow that never puts on any fat, or is a bag of bones by the time the calf is weaned may be putting too much into milk for the feed she has available (thus needs supplements) and has a higher chance of coming up open/late at some point. I see breeding for longevity a very environment specific undertaking.. Take a cow bred for lush pastures and high milk and she won't last on scrub grass, and the other way around is only slightly better.. she'll end up too fat to breed and not raise the calf she should.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I see breeding for longevity a very environment specific undertaking.. Take a cow bred for lush pastures and high milk and she won't last on scrub grass, and the other way around is only slightly better.. she'll end up too fat to breed and not raise the calf she should.

Wintering here is the big stress. Moderate size and wooly coats help. High milk continental crosses struggle.

 

[JWBrahman]

Nesi if you at breeding for lush pastures your milk is going to be much lower than a breed average. The heavy milk cattle come from the grain belt.

 

[Nesikep]

JWB.. I think the grain fed cows would be an extreme (not that they aren't out there).. I couldn't fathom feeding beef cows grain.
I don't know how breed averages are, but the idea is the same.. Cows with better food available can and should milk harder, and can afford to be harder doers than the ones with lower quality food, they need to be easy keepers, and milk a little less.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Nesi if you at breeding for lush pastures your milk is going to be much lower than a breed average. The heavy milk cattle come from the grain belt.

This goes back to having a better cow for your environment no one size fits all.
Good grass equals good teeth and longevity no matter the breed Brahman is just the good Lords gift for hybrid vigor adding years and pounds.

 

[JWBrahman]

The cows we are running now are only 1/8 Brahman. You definitely have to cull harder out of that kind of group. The heifers that can raise a calf and keep condition to breed back all seem to have less milk, better udders, and less leg.

 

[Rafter S]

Nesi if you at breeding for lush pastures your milk is going to be much lower than a breed average. The heavy milk cattle come from the grain belt.

This goes back to having a better cow for your environment no one size fits all.
Good grass equals good teeth and longevity no matter the breed Brahman is just the good Lords gift for hybrid vigor adding years and pounds.

CB,

You mentioned teeth. I've heard people say that cow's teeth wear down faster in sandy country. Do you think there's anything to that?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I think there is if you have poor grass.
I live on sand and red clay and I get 20 years or better. I have good grass.