?? Biopryn/Biotracking Preg Testing

[Kathie in Thorp]

Our cows were AI'd a month ago. Tomorrow (Monday, 11/11), I made an app't with our AI guy to come out and do the blood draw for the Biopryn preg tests, and have a few extra hands available to move the girls through nice and easy. His wife called this morning -- he forgot about a conflicting dental appointment. He will try to cancel or re-shuffle the dentist to be here. BUT, should that fail, if you have used this test method before, do you have any extra helpful hints other than what is on the Biopryn/Biotracking web site? If so, please comment or PM me.

Like some of you that have an aversion to snakes or spiders, my "thing" is needles/stabbing/poking. Give me an open wound to doctor and I'm good; give me a shot and I won't flinch -- but don't make me cut or stab! You don't need to remind me that this is not a good "thing" with livestock. Thank you, CTB folks!

 

[Anonymous]

It's so easy even I can do it. You don't need to spend your money to have your vet do it.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

It's pretty simple, we're doing it tomorrow. Needles, castration, and AI are a couple of the farm duties I can't do without a strange look on my face.

 

[Jessica06]

Just watched the video. We were taught a different way, and I wouldn't even consider doing it the way they show in the video! Too many things to keep track of.

First of all, if you can have someone hold the tail up for you, your life will be much, MUCH easier, and it will go a LOT faster. That being said, I use orange top blood tubes that I have (hopefully) prenumbered in order 1-.... As each cow goes in the chute, I write their tag # on the opposite side of the label. After my helper/husband holds the tail up and straight (or as much as possible!) I take a rag and do a couple of swipes to clean off the area I'll be drawing from. I take the tail with my left hand (I'm right handed) and use my thumb to find the depression in the tail bones where the vein is. I try to use the part of the tail towards the end of the web that's on either side of the tail, not closer to the base like they do in the video. That's deep! I use an 18 ga needle on a 3 cc syringe, which I stick in about 1/4" - 1/2" or so..however deep I think the vein is (some cows have really skinny tails, others not-so-much), and pull back on the plunger. If I hit it (yay!), I pull at least 2 cc's, 3 if possible. If not, I'll pick a different spot about an inch up or down the tail. Some are just really hard to find. Once, I finally had to give up and get it out of her ear. When you have enough, take it out and then stick your needle through the top of the tube. The vacuum pulls the blood in.

It's really not rocket science, and once you get the hang of it after a few head, it's a piece of cake. Whichever method you end up using!

 

[Anonymous]

For me it's easier to use the vaccutainer needles and not the syringes. To each their own. Also, try not to hold the tail too high, it pinches the vein and it's harder to get blood. 45 degrees from horizontal is plenty and straight. Not to one side or the other.i really don't understand why your vet would want to use the jugular. Seems to be overkill and more risky.

 

[Alan]

I'm not sure of your blood draw system, but I have drawn blood many, many times from the underside of a cows tail, on that part I agree, it's very, very easy and worth a try on you're part. Much, much, much easier than AI..... Just take time to mark the vials correct. Good luck, and don't give up on your AI path!

:tiphat:

 

[bse]

I use the needle and syringe I can buy them both cheaper that the blood letting needle. if you put the needle in and pull a little pressure you can see the blood flash in the needle then just pull back, I hold the tails myself I know where I want it and someone helping me may not, its all in what you get used to starting out. For me it was an experiment and the first few cows had it kinda rough but after you get the hang of it its no problem they will move sometimes right when you are where you need to be so you may have to fish around a bit sometimes it just takes a little manipulating.

 

[Alan]

Just to add to BSE comments. when you lift the tail, on the underside, about 1 to 3 inches from the anus in the middle of the underside of the tail, you will feel the soft spot or "V". I just slide the needle at an angle toward the cow, just under the skin, like the complete needle depth is about 1/4 inch in depth. As BSE said, it may take more than one attempt at first. I also use a syring, draw just a little back and either you have a gusher of blood or nothing. I usually use an 18 gauge needle, I think 16 is too big and 21 is too small. I hope you give it a try on one cow or open cow, it's an easy thing to do and a $ saver.

 

[Farmgirl]

Good comments. Everyone has their way that seems best to them. I have found an apron with pockets is very handy to have on when drawing blood. You have needles, vaccutainers,etc. Need all those things handy. The apron is really, really helpful.

Good luck.
Farmgirl

 

[polledbull]

18ga needle 3cc syringe , is as easy as it gets , if you have hot water avaliable, you can wash out the syringe immediatly by drawing it full of hot water and ejecting it on the ground 3-4 times and keep on going , i have done it many times and it will clean it as to not effect blood test results.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm always scared to double up on the needle use. I use a 3cc syringe, and the squirt in their container. I bend the vaccume needles for some reason. I think I ordered a gross of 3 cc syringes from nasco just for the occasion.

 

[hevmando]

I agree, 18 guage needle, 3 cc syringe, tail horizontal or slightly higher only, too high and you do pinch the nerve. Hold tail with one arm, needle in other, push in, if you hit bone, back off a little, see blood, pull plunger, Voila! My mistakes first years were not pushing in far enough, too big of a needle, and tail too high. Mark vials first, and new syringe for each cow. Baby wipes work good to clean tail. Love this method.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Well, THAT was interesting! All humans involved were virgins/first experimenters with this test. Our AI guy was able to come out later in the day. We fumbled around a little. One heifer and one cow should have had little red multiple fountains going under their tails and we COULD NOT get any blood drawn there! Think they had about 500 lb. springs on those tails. We'll palpate them later, but have not seen any signs of heat on those 2 since we bred them. And one cow was actually in heat, so she'll get re-bred in the morning. Her AI date was 9/30/13; she acted like she was in on 10/22, and was standing for bulling by steers this morning (11/11) -- so she is right on time to be back in again now, and she was pink and swollen (but not much discharge); AI guy will come out and AI her again in the morning. So, we tested 4 out of 7. Even though it's 30 miles each direction for the AI guy, he did not charge us for today's adventure -- it was a learning experience for all of us. Will mail samples tomorrow, then sit and wait.

Hevmando, wish I'd have thought about baby wipes. Next time. We used paper towels and rubbing alc., and that worked. For future reference . . . what length 18 ga. needles? We did not re-use any needles -- clean one for each, as supplied by Biopryn.

Now, we wait a few days. Frankly, I'd be absolutely delighted if we got 6 out of 7 on single-run AI.

 

[bse]

18x1inch is what I use

 

[boondocks]

Well, THAT was interesting! All humans involved were virgins/first experimenters with this test. Our AI guy was able to come out later in the day. We fumbled around a little. One heifer and one cow should have had little red multiple fountains going under their tails and we COULD NOT get any blood drawn there! Think they had about 500 lb. springs on those tails. We'll palpate them later, but have not seen any signs of heat on those 2 since we bred them. And one cow was actually in heat, so she'll get re-bred in the morning. Her AI date was 9/30/13; she acted like she was in on 10/22, and was standing for bulling by steers this morning (11/11) -- so she is right on time to be back in again now, and she was pink and swollen (but not much discharge); AI guy will come out and AI her again in the morning. So, we tested 4 out of 7. Even though it's 30 miles each direction for the AI guy, he did not charge us for today's adventure -- it was a learning experience for all of us. Will mail samples tomorrow, then sit and wait.

Hevmando, wish I'd have thought about baby wipes. Next time. We used paper towels and rubbing alc., and that worked. For future reference . . . what length 18 ga. needles? We did not re-use any needles -- clean one for each, as supplied by Biopryn.

Now, we wait a few days. Frankly, I'd be absolutely delighted if we got 6 out of 7 on single-run AI.

Kathy,
We've got 7 we're waiting on, same as you. One needed re-Ai'd so we're waiting til she gets to 40 days (or so) then we'll check all of them together. Thanks for the info on the blood tests. I think we'll have the vet palpate, since we're doing a bunch of vaccinations at the same time, but would love to try this method next time around. (Vet said it was somewhat less reliable in beefers than in dairy...????).

 

[Anonymous]

Boon, your vet is flat out wrong. It's equally accurate across all breeds of cattle.

 

[boondocks]

Thanks Hook! I probably misunderstood what she said.

One thing dawned on me--when you AI, you pretty much know the conception date (assuming decent success rates), so the binary nature of the blood test ("pregnant or no?") is really all you need. The added advantage of palpation preg checks is getting the approx calving date....so one more reason to try the blood test I guess. (I assume the blood test doesn't tell you how far along the cow is?).

 

[Anonymous]

You are correct on all accounts. The protein specific response in the test does increase as the pregnancy progresses but there's no way to put a quantitative timeline on it. Yet

 

[Chris H]

I like the vacuum tubes & needles, like the website shows. A second set of hands is handy to mark the tubes when my hands get a bit slick. Putting the cows on dry grass or hay for a couple days is nice, too!
Sometimes I get squeamish about giving shots. We've got a few who seem to jump really bad as soon as the needle hits them. But by drawing the blood from under the tail, the cows don't budge an inch! I'd rather draw blood than give shots any day.

Last year was really hot here, we had about 10% return to heat after being confirmed bred. This year I'm testing late, I just want to know 'yes' or 'no', and a later test will let me know. It gives me enough time to know if I cull before winter. If I sell any as breds then we'll have those palpated.

 

[highgrit]

Been to a few breeder sales lately and they have been using Sonagrams. It's the only way to go in my book you know the sex of the calf. No hoping for a bull or heifer calf.