Better stock up on feedstore antibiotics

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There are 2 vet clinics and 2 different vets who work out of there truck in this county. I know one of the truck guy fairly well. He does have a little store front office with a gal there to answer the phone and sell stuff. I can get anything I need from him there. It is about 40 miles to his little office but it is 30 miles to the nearest gas station. If I were to need immediately. B is 3 miles away. He runs nearly 1,000 cows. He is pretty well stocked up with every drug a person could want.
 
I share a fence with a neighbour that runs 3000 mother cows. He sometimes comes to me for medicine :ROFLMAO:
Yep, but if you need something quickly you might check with the neighbors before making a long drive. One of my neighbors is a retired but still licenses vet who runs cows. If I needed something quickly she would also be on my list of people to call.
 
I'm pretty sure the veterinary practitioners are not greedily rubbing their hands together, like Snidely Whiplash (see I'm dating myself!) at the prospect of 'windfall excess profits', as FJB calls 'em, as a result of the Feds taking these drugs off the OTC shelves.

Our friend AlaCowMan once said - and I believe quite astutely - that "Cattlemen will starve a good veterinarian to death."
 
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I got tired of the BS with our local vets. (We have 3 large animal vets in a 7 mile circle) We run enough cattle that when I need to treat a str I want a bottle not just a dose.
The new vet clinic is an hour and half away, but I can fix any emergency short of a C-section. Their a $100 trip charge, but BSE the bulls counts as their yearly visit. When I need antibiotics they drop ship the amount I need, and I have it the next day.
This clinic is a father and 2 sons. One of the sons used to work for a large 3 practice 5 sale barn group.
They know cattle and understand cattlemen.
 
I'm pretty sure the veterinary practitioners are not greedily rubbing their hands together, like Snidely Whiplash (see I'm dating myself!) at the prospect of 'windfall excess profits', as FJB calls 'em, as a result of the Feds taking these drugs off the OTC shelves.

Our friend AlaCowMan once said - and I believe quite astutely - that "Cattlemen will starve a good veterinarian to death."
As my vet has said. He will make it up on the horse people.
 
Welcome to our (Canadian) world. Any meds, other then parasite control, has to come from a Vet here. It was changed a few years ago, I'm on the fence about it, but who asks me. =D
In order to get any meds you have to have a vet-client relationship, which means a yearly visit from one of the Vets to your farm. They don't look at specific animals, but rather just the whole herd in the pasture. Then we get the whole spiel on what we should consider for our annual Herd Health.
After that we can call in if we have a problem and the office will 'prescribe' what they think we should use, or if we ask for a specific med they will ask what it is for.
That's all great, but on the downside, our closest Vet is an hour drive one way. If we have a problem with an animal they want us to bring it in, unless it's down. Ugh!!! Okay getting off topic here.
So without a 'relation ship' with a vet you can't get any meds. My suggestion is to pick your Vet and establish that before you need anything. (Speaking of experience) The absolute downside for us though is, if you have a yard dog or barn cats and you want meds for them............ can't get it unless you bring them in. Good luck with bringing in your barn cats.
Anyway, ramble ramble ramble, like I've said, we have these laws since a few years and I'm on the fence about it. Some makes sense, i.e. overuse of antibiotics, others not so much. But they have us on the leash that way, mainly financially.
 
I'm 50/50.
If people would just be reasonable about what they are doing and use good judgment it would go a long ways.

I know a fella that gives EVERY animal he buys a shot of La200/300 as well as blackleg before he ever gets em home.
The good thing is, he knows the weight and dosage amounts and never flips anything before the withdrawal period.

But it's plumb foolish to dose every animal ya get!! Your wasting money and unnecessarily dosing animals that have no need for it!

As minor an inconvenience as it will be, it's probly a great move on these drugs that were formerly OTC. Overuse/abuse is what has caused this issue.

Most cases I prefer the wait and see approach.
 
We buy somewhat regularly from the stockyards:; mostly bull calves in the 4-6 wts.. to make steers to wean and precondition and put together pens/groups... That is a size/age that can get sick fast. BUT.... we bring them home and they go through the chute within 24 hours and ONLY get a shot of Multi-min.... then sit and watch them for a week or so... THEN they get worked through for castrating, and blackleg/tetanus and vaccs..... Kept in the lot another week or so and if all looks good, out with any others we have there. We have 2 pens right there at the barn so can have 2 groups being "processed"... that we can get in and work on or treat or anything that needs doing....
Frosts me that we have to get Multi-Min from the vet... because of the selenium levels being higher than "suggested"... yet we are in a selenium deficient area.... when a vitamin supplement like that should be the first thing anyone would use...

Thinking about that, @MurraysMutts , you might want to give that cow a shot of that. It is one of the very best things we have started using on any bought animals....and anything that might be stressed... really seems to boost their systems... and get them utilizing their feed better too....
 
Frosts me that we have to get Multi-Min from the vet... because of the selenium levels being higher than "suggested"... yet we are in a selenium deficient area.... when a vitamin supplement like that should be the first thing anyone would use...
I understand the frustration, but I have seen some instances of real animal harm from people using Multi-Min improperly.
 
An antibiotic hatchet job:
https://www.theguardian.com/global/...-health-at-risk-with-reckless-antibiotics-use

Yes, it's The Guardian, well known for hatchet jobs/sensationalistic articles, but if any of it is true, it doesn't bode well.
In my opinion, the industry doesn't help their cause with statements like this:
JBS said that although it was not directly responsible for administering antibiotics to livestock, "we support the use of medically important antibiotics in our cattle supply under the supervision of licensed veterinarians for therapeutic use only, defined as prevention, control and treatment of disease, rather than growth promotion or improved feed efficiency".

Cargill said: "Judicious use of antibiotics prevents sick animals from entering the food supply, and ensures that animals do not unnecessarily suffer from disease. While we support the responsible use of human antibiotics in food production, we are committed not to use antibiotics that are critically important for human medicines as defined by the World Health Organization."
To me, 'therapeutic use' means there isn't anything wrong with the animal, but they administer antibiotics 'just in case'. That practice is what caused FDA to implement the original vet-client relationship requirement several years back.
 
An antibiotic hatchet job:
https://www.theguardian.com/global/...-health-at-risk-with-reckless-antibiotics-use

Yes, it's The Guardian, well known for hatchet jobs/sensationalistic articles, but if any of it is true, it doesn't bode well.
In my opinion, the industry doesn't help their cause with statements like this:

To me, 'therapeutic use' means there isn't anything wrong with the animal, but they administer antibiotics 'just in case'. That practice is what caused FDA to implement the original vet-client relationship requirement several years back.
I think that statement is fine. Use of antibiotics to prevent disease is perfectly reasonable in certain circumstances. For example, if half the group is sick with pneumonia, treating the water will help the sick ones and prevent disease in the ones that haven't caught it yet. The alternative is waiting for each domino to fall and treating calves individually, which is arguably worse for antibiotic resistance.
 
One of the vets I prefer to use, has the same thoughts about it is going to be as much or more of a PITA to deal with all the drugs and prescribing them and providing them. The good vets are often overwhelmed with the farm calls since they do not make near as much money on them as the small animal side of the vet practice. I have no problem with an occasional vet farm call, I have mine do our preg checks and bangs vaccs too. They see what we do and are not against a phone call for a drug, or phone consult...... and know that I am not a big "drug person" to start with..... so not a problem to give us stuff to keep on hand.....
With the new Thierolosis (however you spell this Asian Longhorn tick disease) as well as increased incidences of black leg and lepto here, having a vet "knowing" what you do is a help. They are getting expensive YES.... but their travel is going up like everyone else's.... their clinic costs keep going up like all our own daily living costs....
I hate to pay the vet visit bill.... but it is better than not having one close enough to call when you need the help.
Too many that are "backyard farmers" and buy a couple of calves, and gives them a shot of LA200 or something and do not carry out the proper protocol, are part of the problem that caused these changes.... and the calves do not get better so they say it is the drugs.... when it is actually not knowing what the real problem is and treating it with something that will do the job to cure the problem. Using antibiotics as preventatives is usually a wasted deal and only causes future resistance.
Yet, on that note... I have to take antibiotics every time I go to the dentist now, after having the ankle and knee replacements, to stop any bacteria in my mouth get into the bloodstream in the case of any work, including normal dental cleaning.....so it doesn't get into the joints.... and I am not going to chance that... had one farmer that had his hip replacement get infected, eventually had to have it removed and re done... it was a long and painful situation....
so I will do what I am told for that... so there are times when a preventative dose is supposed to be used.
Sounds like us. Both the cattle and the precautions my wife has to take with her injuriy and subsequent surgeries.
 
What happened?
Calves born to cows overdosed with Multi-min during third trimester failed to thrive. Some of them were weak and never stood after birth. The owner thought they had a mineral deficiency, so they started giving all of the calves a shot of Multi-min at birth. None of the calves who couldn't stand at birth got better. Of the calves that survived, most grew slower than normal and looked a little rough, but had nothing obviously wrong with them. They were more prone to pneumonia and slow to respond to treatment. When they were vaccinated at 4-6 months old, most of them developed abscesses at the vaccination sites. That got a technical services vet from the vaccine manufacturer involved, who had seen something like it before. Liver samples confirmed that mineral levels were off the charts.

Removing Multi-min from the herd protocol completely resolved all of the problems the next year.
 
I think that statement is fine. Use of antibiotics to prevent disease is perfectly reasonable in certain circumstances. For example, if half the group is sick with pneumonia, treating the water will help the sick ones and prevent disease in the ones that haven't caught it yet. The alternative is waiting for each domino to fall and treating calves individually, which is arguably worse for antibiotic resistance.

But, in years/decades past, some (maybe many) producers administered antibiotics as a matter of course to the whole herd whether there was anything wrong with any of them or not and no vet involved. I've seen some state exactly that here at CT, but not recently.
 
But, in years/decades past, some (maybe many) producers administered antibiotics as a matter of course to the whole herd whether there was anything wrong with any of them or not and no vet involved. I've seen some state exactly that here at CT, but not recently.
Yup. Like automatically giving Draxxin to all calves at weaning. I don't recall who said it but I was a little shocked. Draxxin's not cheap and seems unnecessary/extreme. But I guess it worked for their operation. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
 
Seems like this would be a good time to stock up on some Dura-Pen. Good for infections, (not viruses). I've heard my vet tell a guy with infected calf Go get the Pink stuff (if it can still be found). Also Today and Tomorrow milk cow teat infusions.
 
Vets and their employees are at least as compassionate and caring as other medical doctors and nurses. There are a few differences in the setup though. Most medical doctors work in a controlled environment. They are in a building and their patients come to them. Patients usually can talk and communicate to some extent. Usually, the doctor works for a large hospital system and is distant from the economics and business decisions. But that hospital system might get you discharged or transferred as soon as possible if there is no reimbursement in sight. Emergencies show up similar to planned appointments. They come to a facility that is open for business. Many hospital systems are non-profits.

Vets are closer to the ownership/business side. They are generally not "open" for business 24/7. They hope they are not non-profit. They enjoy serving their repeat customers that they have a relationship with. They know their client's management practices, abilities and resources. When they get that emergency call from someone new, they listen and try to evaluate the situation - is the caller presenting the information correctly, are there red flags in the story, will this person pay the bill, is there anything they can do for the situation presented, etc. When they get a call from an unknown person describing a desperate situation with little possibility of a good outcome for them, they may be hesitant to get involved. Presentation and timing are important. A call indicating an animal has fell into a deep hole and is injured and we don't have a vet will probably not receive the same consideration as a call that we recently moved to the area and are looking to find a vet that can treat our animals when needed.

My daughter is a vet. When she first opened her clinic, she saw emergencies from anyone and everyone. Majority of her problems and drama were from after hours emergencies from non-clients. She struggles to find employees willing to be on call at night and weekends for emergencies or even to stay an extra couple hours after closing time for a work-in patient that came late in the afternoon. Now, she only sees her current clients for after hour emergencies. And she is the only clinic in the county that sees anyone after hours.

When choosing a vet, people will do some research for that choice and will leave and go elsewhere if they are not happy. What may not be obvious is that the vet clinic will apply a similar criteria when a potential new client calls with a request. Things need to work for the benefit of both parties. Instead of just expecting things to be good for one side of the relationship. Vet relationship needs to be a little deeper than the relationship with your grocery store or tire store. If a person views their relationship with their vet in the same way as the grocery store, probably neither side gets much out of it.

In regard to the topic of drug regulation, a purebred breeder (potential new client) came to the clinic to purchase Draxxin. He explained his need for the draxxin. Whenever he noticed any cow or calf looking a little "off", he gave them 1cc of draxxin as a preventative, regardless of size. The vet declined to provide the draxxin. New regulations are often in response to problems. Like people buying LA200 from TSC and giving it for anything and everything or giving 1cc of draxxin as a cureall preventative.
One cc of Draxxin to an adult bovine? Good way to encourage antibiotic resistance. Incidentally, in my area a generic form of tulathromycin costs much less than Draxxin, the brand name product.
 

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