Best Angus cow maker bulls?

[Ebenezer]

Ebenezer,
Would you breed a son of Sav Final Answer to a Sav Final Answer grandaughter (daughter of Sav Mustang.)

If the cow is what I want and the bull had something to do with it I would not blink an eye. There is nothing to fear but fear itself. I have no experience with Final Answer.

 

[Dixie2542]

I'm interested if anyone has LD Capitalist 316 calves on the ground? He's advertised as a cow maker so I'm curious how his offspring are developing and how are their temperments and feet?

Sorry to hear about Bismarck.. I have six granddaughters and they've been great mothers. Took AI well and rebred AI on time.

 

[torogmc81]

I'm interested if anyone has LD Capitalist 316 calves on the ground? He's advertised as a cow maker so I'm curious how his offspring are developing and how are their temperments and feet?

Sorry to hear about Bismarck.. I have six granddaughters and they've been great mothers. Took AI well and rebred AI on time.

Musgrave Angus in IL would be the best place to contact about 316 calves. Sale is coming up in a few weeks, you could watch online at the least

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

We have some really nice Mill Bar Hickok heifers right now. 7229 seems to have been a good cow maker...and his sons (Black Granite, Mill Bar, etc.) seem to be carrying on the original Consensus history of being a solid cow maker.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

One thing i've been doing this year is looking at the sire's of the dams that are in folks herds. If you look at Connealy, they have a flat out TON of Consensus cows. Impression seems to be a cow making machine and many herds have cows out of him that they have retained. I've actually heard Rampage is making good heifers as long as you can tamp down the docility issues.

 

[kdpihf]

The genetics you bring into your herd stays in your herd via the heifers you keep. Alap can sire a total void of scrotal and both testicles up to one only or OK. I do not want that in my cow herd so the title is what it is but you 'd better watch out, you'd better not cry, use the wrong maternal grandsire, I'm telling you why ... :santa: My source of the info: the late Ed Oliver. Ed loved the bull and used him a lot. Good for whomever wants that to pop back up in a generation or two.

So even for all the things that Ed loved about Alap, you've decided that the one anecdotal knock that Ed had on the bull is reason enough for you not to use him even though Ed went back to the well over and over? On a related note, did you know Ed well or ever see the Oliver herd? I'm sad that I never made it down there to meet him in person but glad to see his project carrying on, Alap and all.

the one anecdotal knock

A known genetic defect, not a knock. Are you willing to bring any known genetic defect into your herd? I'm not going to live long enough to get it cleared back out. Maybe you will. Have at it. Never met Ed in person but had a run of long and data/genetic type phone conversations over the years. I also sampled Alap before I knew the scoop. Passion is good. I do not set up any breeding plans based on passion. It costs too much.

So I was going to let this go because I really don't care and don't have a dog in the fight and, more importantly, really dislike online bickering. However not a big fan of message board innuendo and rumors. I saw Ed's cows many years ago and spoke with him and if Ed says he saw a problem then I absolutely believe there was a problem in his herd. Ed was an honest and honorable man. The real issue is that no one else has ever seen this problem. Wye has used Alap extensively and is selling sons again this year. Spring Valley sold sons this year. Many other Alap sons have been raised and sold all across the country. The persons who bought the bull from Wye and used him extensively never saw any problems. I have Alap daughters and a son that we are using for his 6th breeding season this year. Again, I have no ownership interest in Alap so nothing to promote, but I would not have his genetics on my farm if I thought there was any type of problem. There are too many other good options available. There is no perfect bull so I am certainly not trying to make that argument for Alap. But he has seen extensive use in too many herds all around the country without this problem appearing for it to be due to his genetic makeup.

 

[Ebenezer]

However not a big fan of message board innuendo and rumors.

Still have the original phone notes from talking with Ed numerous times. No innuendo or rumor. Spin it how you will. I also know that Ed was not alone in the knowledge.

 

[jdg]

The best person to settle this with is Spence, Ed's son who runs the herd now. Spencer has seen a few crops of son's since before Ed's passing, and would have an informed opinion. I've seen testicle issues in three of the bulls from Oliver, as I developed two crops for sale of Ed's bulls. (27 bulls over two years) I Have never experienced any in the son's of Ed's daughters I have over the past 4 years, some linebred back to an Oliver 147 son. (Alap grandson). My Oliver cows are the most fertile, slick, well uddered, and phenotypically correct cattle I own. There is some inbreeding depression, but they stamp their offspring. I do not know if the tighter Alap is concentrated in the pedigree, the higher percentage of testicle issues, though.

 

[LCBulls]

In Response to Dixie, We have some calves on the ground out of LD Capitalist 316. They are definitely one of my favorite groups so far. They were born small ,but not as small as Epds might suggest. They have all thickened out extremely well. They are only a month or so old but are structurally correct and some of the thickest tops and hind quarters. We used Tex Playbook, HA Cowboy Up, Jindra Acclaim,Coleman Charlo so they definitely hold their own or even outperform some popular sires out there. Like torogmc said, check out Musgrave Angus Facebook page. They have a sale this weekend, with many videos of offspring.

 

[torogmc81]

In Response to Dixie, We have some calves on the ground out of LD Capitalist 316. They are definitely one of my favorite groups so far. They were born small ,but not as small as Epds might suggest. They have all thickened out extremely well. They are only a month or so old but are structurally correct and some of the thickest tops and hind quarters. We used Tex Playbook, HA Cowboy Up, Jindra Acclaim,Coleman Charlo so they definitely hold their own or even outperform some popular sires out there. Like torogmc said, check out Musgrave Angus Facebook page. They have a sale this weekend, with many videos of offspring.

How would you rank the rest of the sires in that group behind 316 calves so far? That's quite the lineup you bred with

 

[LCBulls]

Hard to say so far. I think they are the best calves we have raised, but I really like the Playbook calves also. They are like little tanks, they are probably not as Calving ease shape wise. We bred them to heifers and haven't had any problems. We have a Flush by Cowboy Up x Coleman Engages Dam that are really nice. I would use them all again.
I really like the Charlo cattle if bred to some of your larger females. We have used him for 3 years.

 

[Dixie2542]

Hard to say so far. I think they are the best calves we have raised, but I really like the Playbook calves also. They are like little tanks, they are probably not as Calving ease shape wise. We bred them to heifers and haven't had any problems. We have a Flush by Cowboy Up x Coleman Engages Dam that are really nice. I would use them all again.
I really like the Charlo cattle if bred to some of your larger females. We have used him for 3 years.

Thanks for the input. That's good to know as we sampled him this past fall so we're eagerly anticipating his calves later this year.

 

[torogmc81]

Hard to say so far. I think they are the best calves we have raised, but I really like the Playbook calves also. They are like little tanks, they are probably not as Calving ease shape wise. We bred them to heifers and haven't had any problems. We have a Flush by Cowboy Up x Coleman Engages Dam that are really nice. I would use them all again.
I really like the Charlo cattle if bred to some of your larger females. We have used him for 3 years.

SS rep came to fill my tank this AM. I was a little surprised when he said he had 10 straws of Playbook that had not been spoken for. So I went ahead and bought it from him. Thanks for the feedback

 

[MikeBo]

The most expensive heifer I have bought was a Rampage daughter, we were going to flush her, but I had to return her...the craziest I have encountered.

 

[LCBulls]

The most expensive heifer I have bought was a Rampage daughter, we were going to flush her, but I had to return her...the craziest I have encountered.

At least they picked a great name for the Bull

 

[CattleMan1920]

I've not heard anyone say much about SAV Harvestor. He is an excellent female maker. Don't take my word for it. Try buying Harvestor daughters, most people aren't too interested in letting them go.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

I've not heard anyone say much about SAV Harvestor. He is an excellent female maker. Don't take my word for it. Try buying Harvestor daughters, most people aren't too interested in letting them go.

I do believe you should talk to the Herbster folks about frame size. There are large differences.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I've not heard anyone say much about SAV Harvestor. He is an excellent female maker. Don't take my word for it. Try buying Harvestor daughters, most people aren't too interested in letting them go.

I do believe you should talk to the Herbster folks about frame size. There are large differences.

I did, he recommended Harvestor and I've been extremely happy with the results.

 

[Dixie2542]

I do believe you should talk to the Herbster folks about frame size. There are large differences.

I am not familiar with harvestor. Does he throw large framed cattle or is he just inconsistent with variations? Didn't understand comment sorry trying to learn....

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Charles has been very helpful in discussing what our goals are versus his sires. For us, he steered me away from some and guided me to others. In particular, we are trying very hard to stay in a moderate frame, efficient cow. In central Texas we just do not have the forage that many others have. We believe the best economic model for us is to have more moderate frames cows versus fewer large cows.

Everyone has different goals and different amounts of forage. I just think it is wise to ask Herbster their opinion. They have been quite helpful for us.