Best Angus cow maker bulls?

[CattleMan1920]

Maybe it's don't let a lie get in the way of a good story.

What is it guys, I post up a Byergo Titus daughter with excellent EPD's and she is not accurate. So I say Harvestor daughters are really nice, great pedigree, and the EPD's leave somewhat to be desired. That's no good either. In fact it's a "lie"

There really isn't anything that will please any of you because that's just how it goes on CT.

I said in earlier posts that I go on both EPD's and phenotype, I don't just hem myself into one camp.

I like the Harvestor daughters and the big daughters in general because I'm not forced to used calving ease sires with low birthweights. I have daughters that can handle a bigger animal which gives me more options first time around.

For example. I have a Harvestor daughter that is about ready to breed. I'm going to use Byergo Black Magic sexed semen that was delivered last week on this gal. Now I've had several people on here say "NO WAY would I use a bull like Black Magic on heifers!" Well it's not much of an issue when your heifers are 1500-1600 pounds when the calf is born. Especially if it's going to be a female. Don't believe they are that size? hop in the truck and come out for a visit. I have no reason to make this up.

Would I use Black Magic on a heifer out of stacked calving ease genetics? Most likely not, would I use him on a small framed heifer, nope! Would I use him on a Harvestor daughter? All day long.

You guys don't see the bigger picture of what I'm doing out here, and it's ok, you are too focused on catching me on something, nipping at my heels.

I don't want puny heifers, Harvestor makes daughters that are far from puny. Once you get them on the ground, you can pull those EPD's up with a bull like Black Magic, or VAR Power Play, and OR use that daughter as a recip. One thing is for sure you won't have some scrawny female trying to achieve the impossible.

I love this answer. You are creating your own system.

It does make me chuckle...we are all so independent. Our cowboys have never met another that does it all "correctly" like they do. I have to remind them that they aren't the second coming and there are many successful systems that can be quite different.

Agreed, what works for me isn't good for others, and vice versa.

The "independent" nature of the cattle biz is why it's still such a rewarding endeavor.

Not too much independence left these days in an increasingly corporate driven world.

 

[jscunn]

I have to agree about the best cow maker bulls having some BW and substance to them.. Docility EPD needs some work on Harvestor thou, also dont think it would be a problem but longevity of the cows has yet to be proven.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

He has been around long enough for folks to have an idea...but your point is well taken.

 

[Hogtiming]

It hurts me to say it. But I will agree briefly with brook hill about harvestor. His females sure as heck look good for big cattle. But using badmagic on him will be a disaster if you plan on keeping the females unless you own a feed mill

 

[YoungAngusCattle]

I have been recommended SAV Extension and V910 by other users on here. Does anyone have any cattle out of them or any input on these two bulls?

 

[T & B farms]

I have a question for you more experienced angus guys. On a proven bull, can I use the YH epd to help predict the frame and mature size of his cows? I have cows that I would like to maintain their size, some I want to make slightly smaller, and some I want slightly bigger.

 

[LCBulls]

I have a question for you more experienced angus guys. On a proven bull, can I use the YH epd to help predict the frame and mature size of his cows? I have cows that I would like to maintain their size, some I want to make slightly smaller, and some I want slightly bigger.

Yearling Height can definitely be used as an indicator, but some animals mature quicker than others.
I think what you should be looking for is MH, MW.( MH) Mature Height is the one that I'd be looking at. I also like to use ones that have a bigger MW percentage than MH. Usually means that they are thicker.
I'd rather have a heavy cow that's shorter than a heavy cow that's really tall. But everyone likes different stuff.

 

[T & B farms]

I have a question for you more experienced angus guys. On a proven bull, can I use the YH epd to help predict the frame and mature size of his cows? I have cows that I would like to maintain their size, some I want to make slightly smaller, and some I want slightly bigger.

Yearling Height can definitely be used as an indicator, but some animals mature quicker than others.
I think what you should be looking for is MH, MW.( MH) Mature Height is the one that I'd be looking at. I also like to use ones that have a bigger MW percentage than MH. Usually means that they are thicker.
I'd rather have a heavy cow that's shorter than a heavy cow that's really tall. But everyone likes different stuff.

Thank you, tells you how much I know. I've tried a search with no luck. So a zero on MW and MH is breed average?
I'm like you, I like shorter cows that are very thick and big soggy middled.
I recently bought a set of scales, and it has showed me just how bad I am at estimating weights. My 1200lb cows are actually 1400, and my 1400lbers are actually 1600-1650.
I'm looking to get everything to 12-1400lbs. I understand I can't do that in one generation, just trying to select bulls to help me get there. I don't want to sacrifice thickness, phenotype, and maternal ability to get there tho.

 

[T & B farms]

I found breed average epds for 2019, so that answers that question.
I guess my question now would be, what would the weight and frame size be on a breed average cow? This seems like a very location specific question, but there has to be some kind of general average.