Bern Baby Bern

[greybeard]

Yes, but we operate under the electoral college system. At least the voters DID get the choice whether to vote for her or someone else.
I can assure, that had it been the other way around and HRC had won the electoral vote but not the popular vote, there isn't a Dem in the world that would have ever said a word about it..least of all HRC.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't know how the Dems are going to finalize and push thru the "Anyone but Sanders" thing but it sure looks like that is their goal...again.
Makes one wonder just how democratic this republic really is, if the citizens of that party don't really get to vote on the candidate in the gen election if that candidate is who the majority (seemingly) wants.
Lots can change between now and the convention tho.

The same thing can be said about the General Election last cycle. ( I was not a Hillary Clinton supporter, but she did win the popular vote by over 3 million votes)

We are not a democracy but a constitutional republic. Again it was set up that way from jump to stop a couple states from completely controlling every election.

 

[Caustic Burno]

And this statement is an example of the problem. If someone disagrees with you politically they do not like OUR country and freedom. The other side says the same thing. This proves my point.

Your side just changed uniform color from white to black and still hiding behind a mask trying to intimidate.
The KKK and Antifa rally to the same side and both were or are supported by the party today. It's still plantation politics.
The part I can't grasp is why masses follow .

CB Antifa is not supported by the left just the same as the KKK is not supported by the right. Those are rouge factions and no one supports them. To try and pin something like the KKK on a party from 100 years ago is not fair at all. Joseph McCarthy was a Republican. Does anyone today try and say that Republicans were the cause of McCarthyism? No, because it is not correct. It was a social Red scare that enveloped the whole country. Just like the KKK which was embraced by the South (both parties) after slavery.

The Democrats are the ones that fought for the end of segregation and for equal rights 60 years ago. Does that mean all Republicans are racists, of course not. They aren't.

And, to say, that "my side" changed uniform color would also be incorrect. Prior to Trump, I was a moderate Republican, but I never voted straight party-line because I think that it is ridiculous to vote for the party for the party's sake. In my view, our country comes before party. I try to take a pragmatic view of the facts and make up my own mind. Believe it or not, both sides sometimes have good ideas. But the whole tribal politics culture is taking our country down the tubes. I do not believe Trump is the answer to stopping that spiral.

Still the party of plantation politics.
The leopards spots haven't changed.
The identity politics was a brilliant concept of divide and conquer to maintain power.
Got to take those rose colored glasses off to see clearly.

 

[sstterry]

Yes, but we operate under the electoral college system. At least the voters DID get the choice whether to vote for her or someone else.
I can assure, that had it been the other way around and HRC had won the electoral vote but not the popular vote, there isn't a Dem in the world that would have ever said a word about it..least of all HRC.

I am not complaining about it, I made that statement in response to the "vote for who the majority chooses comment"
Trump won. No complaints on the process.

 

[Buck Randall]

I don't know how the Dems are going to finalize and push thru the "Anyone but Sanders" thing but it sure looks like that is their goal...again.
Makes one wonder just how democratic this republic really is, if the citizens of that party don't really get to vote on the candidate in the gen election if that candidate is who the majority (seemingly) wants.
Lots can change between now and the convention tho.

Sanders' support runs a mile deep but only a foot wide. At this point in the process, he's basically where Trump was in the last Republican primary. While his fans are extremely devoted, he doesn't have majority support. He needs the other candidates to continue to split votes the way that Rubio/Kasich/Cruz did for Trump. I don't see Buttigieg/Biden/Klobuchar allowing that to happen. As soon as one of those three starts to separate, the other two will likely step aside in exchange for a cabinet position or some other high ranking job.

 

[Bestoutwest]

The real fireworks are between Trump and Bloomberg. This is going to be really something to watch play out on Twitter.

None of our elected officials should be conducting any type of discourse, political or otherwise, via Twitter. It's rather embarrassing.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I don't know how the Dems are going to finalize and push thru the "Anyone but Sanders" thing but it sure looks like that is their goal...again.
Makes one wonder just how democratic this republic really is, if the citizens of that party don't really get to vote on the candidate in the gen election if that candidate is who the majority (seemingly) wants.
Lots can change between now and the convention tho.

Sanders' support runs a mile deep but only a foot wide. At this point in the process, he's basically where Trump was in the last Republican primary. While his fans are extremely devoted, he doesn't have majority support. He needs the other candidates to continue to split votes the way that Rubio/Kasich/Cruz did for Trump. I don't see Buttigieg/Biden/Klobuchar allowing that to happen. As soon as one of those three starts to separate, the other two will likely step aside in exchange for a cabinet position or some other high ranking job.

Bernie seems to be a democrat only during election time. He was always an Independent until 2016. I dislike his base to no end. They are the "we want it all for free" "you owe me" crowd. Congrats you made it through the birth canal, welcome to America. We're all owed three things in life: Birth, death and the ability to pay taxes. I've questioned several of my friends several times about which amendment guarantees free healthcare, free college, a universal income (don't get me started), how we're going to regulate CEO pay, etc. They have no answers other than that it's a right, and they are rabidly, and blindly, vehement about it. I think he gets in and we're in for a very turbulent ride.

 

[Buck Randall]

Still the party of plantation politics.
The leopards spots haven't changed.
The identity politics was a brilliant concept of divide and conquer to maintain power.
Got to take those rose colored glasses off to see clearly.

You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it so. In fact it doesn't even hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. Am I supposed to believe that the least racist people in the world are elderly white people from the South, who overwhelmingly vote Republican? Republicans can't lament identity politics when they've built a party around white Christian identity.

 

[Buck Randall]

Bernie seems to be a democrat only during election time. He was always an Independent until 2016. I dislike his base to no end. They are the "we want it all for free" "you owe me" crowd. Congrats you made it through the birth canal, welcome to America. We're all owed three things in life: Birth, death and the ability to pay taxes. I've questioned several of my friends several times about which amendment guarantees free healthcare, free college, a universal income (don't get me started), how we're going to regulate CEO pay, etc. They have no answers other than that it's a right, and they are rabidly, and blindly, vehement about it. I think he gets in and we're in for a very turbulent ride.

I'm not a Sanders fan, but I don't disagree with much of his platform. I just think he's too ambitious and will turn a lot of people off.

The constitution doesn't guarantee any of those things, but the beauty of the document is that it can be amended as the American people see fit. I personally think universal healthcare is a good investment. Right now, we turn people away for preventative care, but then take them in to emergency rooms when they're on death's door (and those of us who can afford to pay end up subsidizing those who can't). Any cattleman should be familiar with the fact that it's cheaper to pay for prevention than for emergency service.

We already have lots of "free stuff" in this country. Public schools, medicare, roads, etc. We pay for it with our taxes because it benefits the public good. For the most part, these services are all extremely popular and successful. In general, it's just cheaper to take care of people than to let them fall into poverty and deal with the crime that results.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I'm not a Sanders fan, but I don't disagree with much of his platform. I just think he's too ambitious and will turn a lot of people off.

The constitution doesn't guarantee any of those things, but the beauty of the document is that it can be amended as the American people see fit. I personally think universal healthcare is a good investment. Right now, we turn people away for preventative care, but then take them in to emergency rooms when they're on death's door (and those of us who can afford to pay end up subsidizing those who can't). Any cattleman should be familiar with the fact that it's cheaper to pay for prevention than for emergency service.

We already have lots of "free stuff" in this country. Public schools, medicare, roads, etc. We pay for it with our taxes because it benefits the public good. For the most part, these services are all extremely popular and successful. In general, it's just cheaper to take care of people than to let them fall into poverty and deal with the crime that results.

I don't disagree that offering insurance to everyone wouldn't benefit the whole. The problem lies with the fact that I don't believe the government is the right entity to do that, nor do I think that state governments have the ability to do it without royally screwing it up (ex. Idaho is horrible at providing an adequate education for the average child, apparently we don't care here. They won't do better with healthcare). I like my insurance, and I'm sure there's a ton of folks that do, too. There's a ton that don't. Allow anyone to buy into a government option BUT! allow everyone to keep what they have. Make the government option Medicaid level, and I think you'll see some darn good options hitting the open market. Like you say, giving folks to ability to see a provider will benefit everyone more than it will hurt us.

 

[Buck Randall]

I'm not a Sanders fan, but I don't disagree with much of his platform. I just think he's too ambitious and will turn a lot of people off.

The constitution doesn't guarantee any of those things, but the beauty of the document is that it can be amended as the American people see fit. I personally think universal healthcare is a good investment. Right now, we turn people away for preventative care, but then take them in to emergency rooms when they're on death's door (and those of us who can afford to pay end up subsidizing those who can't). Any cattleman should be familiar with the fact that it's cheaper to pay for prevention than for emergency service.

We already have lots of "free stuff" in this country. Public schools, medicare, roads, etc. We pay for it with our taxes because it benefits the public good. For the most part, these services are all extremely popular and successful. In general, it's just cheaper to take care of people than to let them fall into poverty and deal with the crime that results.

I don't disagree that offering insurance to everyone wouldn't benefit the whole. The problem lies with the fact that I don't believe the government is the right entity to do that, nor do I think that state governments have the ability to do it without royally screwing it up (ex. Idaho is horrible at providing an adequate education for the average child, apparently we don't care here. They won't do better with healthcare). I like my insurance, and I'm sure there's a ton of folks that do, too. There's a ton that don't. Allow anyone to buy into a government option BUT! allow everyone to keep what they have. Make the government option Medicaid level, and I think you'll see some darn good options hitting the open market. Like you say, giving folks to ability to see a provider will benefit everyone more than it will hurt us.

I could get on board with that. I think the public school system is a good model for the healthcare system. Provide a public option for everyone that is paid with public funds. If people choose to opt out, they can go with the private option at their own expense. That way everyone is covered, private insurance companies have to lower rates to compete with the government plan, and the government has to offer decent service to compete with the private sector.

The good news is that it would be hard to get more expensive and dysfunctional than our current system, so the the bar isn't set very high.

 

[Stocker Steve]

or could be the VP for a very senior citizen...

 

[Caustic Burno]

Still the party of plantation politics.
The leopards spots haven't changed.
The identity politics was a brilliant concept of divide and conquer to maintain power.
Got to take those rose colored glasses off to see clearly.

You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it so. In fact it doesn't even hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. Am I supposed to believe that the least racist people in the world are elderly white people from the South, who overwhelmingly vote Republican? Republicans can't lament identity politics when they've built a party around white Christian identity.

Our very own Constitutional government was based on Christian values.
The irony is the south was primarily democrat until we woke up to the evil and where it had lead us all the way into the 1960's.
If you want to support evil go for it.
The party is still practicing genocide today just like under Jackson.
Your candidates boast about getting the Margaret Sanger award and pushing infancide (sp). Only difference in her your elected and Joseph Mengele is the continent they operated on.
The party of plantation politics yesterday it is the party of public housing politics today.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I heard that college would be free if I voted for Bernie. Got me figuring. So I thought about selling the cows, and buying a kegerator, and going back to school. Sweet... :nod:

Then I heard that Bernie would legalize pot too! Do you think we will be able to buy edibles with food stamps? Maybe I don't even need to buy the kegerator?

 

[Buck Randall]

Still the party of plantation politics.
The leopards spots haven't changed.
The identity politics was a brilliant concept of divide and conquer to maintain power.
Got to take those rose colored glasses off to see clearly.

You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it so. In fact it doesn't even hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. Am I supposed to believe that the least racist people in the world are elderly white people from the South, who overwhelmingly vote Republican? Republicans can't lament identity politics when they've built a party around white Christian identity.

Our very own Constitutional government was based on Christian values.
The irony is the south was primarily democrat until we woke up to the evil and where it had lead us all the way into the 1960's.

:lol2:
You're talking about the same people who still don't see anything wrong with flying the confederate flag in public spaces. I don't think you can claim they suddenly woke up to the evils of the old democrat party.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it so. In fact it doesn't even hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. Am I supposed to believe that the least racist people in the world are elderly white people from the South, who overwhelmingly vote Republican? Republicans can't lament identity politics when they've built a party around white Christian identity.

Our very own Constitutional government was based on Christian values.
The irony is the south was primarily democrat until we woke up to the evil and where it had lead us all the way into the 1960's.

:lol2:
You're talking about the same people who still don't see anything wrong with flying the confederate flag in public spaces. I don't think you can claim they suddenly woke up to the evils of the old democrat party.

You're advocating for the "morally superior " people of the party that advocates killing babies after birth. Primarily those of minority's.

 

[sstterry]

Our very own Constitutional government was based on Christian values.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;

Treaty of Tripoli 1796 (Note, the Constitution was ratified in 1788)

It was signed in Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was ratified by the United States Senate unanimously without debate on June 7, 1797, taking effect June 10, 1797, with the signature of President John Adams.

By their actions, the Founding Fathers made clear that their primary concern was religious freedom, not the advancement of a state religion. Individuals, not the government, would define religious faith and practice in the United States. Thus the Founders ensured that in no official sense would America be a Christian Republic. Ten years after the Constitutional Convention ended its work, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The assurances were contained in the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797 and were intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.

Our government is intended to be Religion Neutral thus the 1st Amendment.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

One Nation Under God

In God We Trust

Hmmmm...

Carry on.

 

[sstterry]

You're advocating for the "morally superior " people of the party that advocates killing babies after birth. Primarily those of minority's.

Woah, where did that come from? That sounds like Fox News BS.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Our very own Constitutional government was based on Christian values.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;

Treaty of Tripoli 1796 (Note, the Constitution was ratified in 1788)

It was signed in Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was ratified by the United States Senate unanimously without debate on June 7, 1797, taking effect June 10, 1797, with the signature of President John Adams.

By their actions, the Founding Fathers made clear that their primary concern was religious freedom, not the advancement of a state religion. Individuals, not the government, would define religious faith and practice in the United States. Thus the Founders ensured that in no official sense would America be a Christian Republic. Ten years after the Constitutional Convention ended its work, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The assurances were contained in the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797 and were intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.

Our government is intended to be Religion Neutral thus the 1st Amendment.

Again grasshopper you missed the train
Madison the father of the 1st was moved by the persecution of Baptist ministers being jailed for handbills, theology.
"Awide-eyed and youthful James I Madison, travelling in Culpeper County in Virginia, came upon a jail that housed half a dozen Baptist preachers, held simply for publishing their religious views. Madison bristled with indignation at the "diabolical Hell conceived principle of persecution." Writing to his friend William Bradford, he ended with a lament: "So I leave you to pity me and pray for Liberty and Conscience to revive among us."