belgian blue x brahman cows

[jemima]

Are Belgian Blues bull good to cross to Brahman, Zebu and other B. Indicus cow breeds? I am just curious if this will add muscling while retaining their mother's adaptability to hot climate and heavy rains in tropical countries. Thanks.

 

[K2011]

I can't say that I know for sure they will be a good cross.....but we had an info paper on the blues and they showed a pic of a Brahman/Belgian Blue bull and he looked good....good muscle on him and still had the look of a Brahman....had the hump and the extra hide

Found the info paper website....look to the right of the screen and you can see the Brahman Cross Bull....
http://www.belgianblueinternational.com ... ed_bbi.pdf

 

[jemima]

thanks..it looks good. It still has the features of a brahman with improved muscling. For sure they will raise well in the hot, humid, and wet climates of the Philippines. I'm hoping to see more write ups about them. Brahmans are very hardy but lacks muscling.

 

[TheBullLady]

When Belgian Blues first started getting popular in about the middle 80's, they were double muscled. I would be VERY careful of anything that has that trait, even bred to Brahman cows. The cow will reduce the weight of the calf, but that stil sounds like a train wreck to me. Frankly, I haven't ever heard of anyone ever doing that before. Which leads me to believe it's not a good cross.

 

[jemima]

Does this mean there is a possibility that the brahman cows will have difficulty calving due to increase in their calves's weight or size? This is real trouble, especially for new mothers because brahmans are small at birth but will grow fast. Is there any other breed with heavy muscle like the B. Blues but with minimal calving problems? Thanks.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Breeding belgian blue to brahman sound like a plan if the calf is due to become meat. The calving difficulty of belgian blue is a story for the pure breds and high percentage crossbreds. Now, the gene that brings all the extra muscle is called the myostatine allele, and comes in several varieties. If the calf carries the gene but the cow does not, there is no added calving difficulty. The first generation crossbred cows, the f1:s, are all heterozygous, and usually calve good, even if the calf is homozygous. Second generation, f2:s half of the cows are still heterozygous and do well, but the other half are homozygous and have serious calving difficulty, because the extra muscle to a certain extent blocks the birth canal.
There is another breed, called piedmontese wich will provide equal muscle combined with decent calvings.
It has another variety of the myostatine alleles, and brings really slender calves. It is also heat tolerant even as a purebred. Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[ANAZAZI]

There are decent birthweight bulls for example valentino de pappillion, who throws 80 pound calves from dairy cows. Piedmontese are much better generally, and a wiser choice in hot climate.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

i'll say it again. Generally calving difficulty amongst the BB breed is from the dam being a BB. A BB sire on any "normal" cow does not generally have any higher percentage of dystocia than any other cross.

 

[jemima]

Thanks for all the replies. I will give BB x brahman a try most probably on experienced mothers first, and experiment later on newbies. It looks it has varied results in some Bos Taurus beef type breeds which by themselves are already moderately muscled but more used often on dairy type breeds with minimal calving problems. I noticed that B. Indicus breeds like Nelore and brahmans are big framed with roomier pelvic area but gives birth to lanky and lightweight calves contributibg to ease at calving.

This Piedmontese, the muscling is not as visible in the females. If the calves are smaller at birth, and starts muscling after a few weeks, this is indeed a different allelle or myostatin gene factor that dictates its double muscling compared to B Blues.

Surely, since these are different genes in Piedmontese and Belgians, they can simultaneously express if you cross a BB to Piedmontese creating an even more enormously muscled cattle, combining both traits from belgian and Pied. Sorry, but my imagination goes wild here.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Thanks for all the replies. I will give BB x brahman a try most probably on experienced mothers first, and experiment later on newbies. It looks it has varied results in some Bos Taurus beef type breeds which by themselves are already moderately muscled but more used often on dairy type breeds with minimal calving problems. I noticed that B. Indicus breeds like Nelore and brahmans are big framed with roomier pelvic area but gives birth to lanky and lightweight calves contributibg to ease at calving.

I guess you are right. But I failed to mention what ugly cross it is!



This Piedmontese, the muscling is not as visible in the females. If the calves are smaller at birth, and starts muscling after a few weeks, this is indeed a different allele or myostatin gene factor that dictates its double muscling compared to B Blues.

Oh yes it is, and cows kill out at 68 percent average
There are six different mutations that brings "double muscling" The one present in bb breed is called nt821, and it expresses itself earlier in the calfs life,like one month before birth or so, so if you overfeed like the belgians, the calves will be huge.
The mutation in piedmontese c313y expresses some six weeks after birth so normal calving will be the case. A long and slender calf, and fine boned, who will grow like weed when given milk from a piedmontese, nellore or brahman cow.



Surely, since these are different genes in Piedmontese and Belgians, they can simultaneously express if you cross a BB to Piedmontese creating an even more enormously muscled cattle, combining both traits from belgian and Pied. Sorry, but my imagination goes wild here.

Yes but no! A cross between them will express the same muscle as their parents, as the animal will be heterozygous on both loci. However, if you in later generations can create an animal homozygous to both, or to all six mutations, then you have created a "super terminal" which sires double muscling no matter what jersey it is bred to! But this breed would be very similar in phenotype to the muscle breeds of today, as a branch will not be more broken if you break it six times.(the mutations can, if homozygous on their own stop the Hormone myostatine from working, a hormone that regulates muscle growth)

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

TNMaster

The average birthweight is 96.8 pounds for a Belgian Blue and 79.9 for a crossbred BB calf.

link: http://www.mnpfarm.com/carcass_info.html

 

[K2011]

Brahman X BB

 

[chippie]

My daughter's Brahman x Jersey cow with newborn Belgian Blue bull calf. No calving problems. She just pooped him out. He was a good steer. Dressed out well with big roasts and steaks.