BeefMaster

[Northern Rancher]

Has anybody here ran them on black baldy cows and retained ownership on the calves through till slaughter. We kept some 1/4 Brahma heifers the result of some erstwhile bucking bulls. They wintered on hay and licked snow and were some of the first to calve out on grass. I'm getting pretty discouraged by the path the Angus breed has taken-in the midst of calving around 700 right now and the overuse of some bulls has screwed up disposition and doing ability royally. I was going to go back black on the BWF cows but am thinking of trying a bit of this. our 1/4 brahma steers sold right with the straight blacks last year.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Sounds like a plan. From what I read the brahman influence is not necessarily bad for wintering cows if it is less than half brahman. And 25% should not affect carcass either.
It would add vitality to the animals; from hybrid vigour and from the fact that the beefmaster is a no nonsense, real life breed.
Note that I have no first hand experience out wintering neither brahman nor beefmaster, but I have out wintered piedmontese, and this breed has not much of winter coat, and half bred pieds have a "normal" coat. :2cents: :hide:

 

[Kingfisher]

Has anybody here ran them on black baldy cows and retained ownership on the calves through till slaughter. We kept some 1/4 Brahma heifers the result of some erstwhile bucking bulls. They wintered on hay and licked snow and were some of the first to calve out on grass. I'm getting pretty discouraged by the path the Angus breed has taken-in the midst of calving around 700 right now and the overuse of some bulls has screwed up disposition and doing ability royally. I was going to go back black on the BWF cows but am thinking of trying a bit of this. our 1/4 brahma steers sold right with the straight blacks last year.

We have a a Beefmaster bull..........bad bad Leroy brown.........but he shoots straight and ALL the cows/heifers
bred and calved with no trouble. He just keeps getting bigger and bigger with little too eat in my opinion..

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

We don't have severe winters -- the coldest we get is about 25-30 degrees for a spell of less than a month; however, Beefmaster does very well for us...

and Kingfisher we had a bull named "Slim" -- and that guy could gain weight each year on air it seemed.

 

[KNERSIE]

Is there a reason you shy away from Charolais or Limousin for the terminal cross?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

maybe calving ease?? dang calving out 700 hd of heifers.. id be nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs

 

[andybob]

NR, are you near Calgarry? Dr Gordon Strick has some great Bonsmara (all export quality) might be worth considering, small calves, heterosis and the option of selling through the established Bonsmara marketing scheme, I am not sure how much premium is paid, but the breeders will be able to fill in the information.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I guess I didn't make myself clear-I wasn't considering them as a strictly terminal cross. I was just curious as to how the steers might feed-I'd be interested in using the females back in the breeding herd. Angus just aren't Angus anymore-they've got Limo muscling, Charolais growth and saler attitude in too many cases. Our 1/4 brahma females out of rodeo bulls handle better and winter better than alot-not all-our straight bred angus. If it's hybrid vigour doing it I'm all for it and want as much as I can get. Were only calving out 130 heifers rest are mature cows but all are out on grass. It's an interesting case study we moved 225 first and second calf cows today-they were sourced from four herds-three range calve and buy bulls from like outfits. The fourth group had sourced it's bulls from traditional winter pen calvers. The three groups from range calving herds-mothered there calves and moved well. The fourth group were in a constant turmoil-carrying on and losing track of their calves. If you are pondering going to range calving with alot of herding involved it might be prudent to select seedstock from outfits that have selected genetics that adapt to that lifestyle. We raised bucking bulls for years so we can handle starchy cattle but they were a picnic compared to some of the black cattle now a days. Just about anybody can get a few bad apples taken care of but a few hundred can make a long day.

 

[Jovid]

I guess I didn't make myself clear-I wasn't considering them as a strictly terminal cross. I was just curious as to how the steers might feed-I'd be interested in using the females back in the breeding herd. Angus just aren't Angus anymore-they've got Limo muscling, Charolais growth and saler attitude in too many cases. Our 1/4 brahma females out of rodeo bulls handle better and winter better than alot-not all-our straight bred angus. If it's hybrid vigour doing it I'm all for it and want as much as I can get. Were only calving out 130 heifers rest are mature cows but all are out on grass. It's an interesting case study we moved 225 first and second calf cows today-they were sourced from four herds-three range calve and buy bulls from like outfits. The fourth group had sourced it's bulls from traditional winter pen calvers. The three groups from range calving herds-mothered there calves and moved well. The fourth group were in a constant turmoil-carrying on and losing track of their calves. If you are pondering going to range calving with alot of herding involved it might be prudent to select seedstock from outfits that have selected genetics that adapt to that lifestyle. We raised bucking bulls for years so we can handle starchy cattle but they were a picnic compared to some of the black cattle now a days. Just about anybody can get a few bad apples taken care of but a few hundred can make a long day.

You might consider Red Poll for both carcass qualities on your steers and retaining females.

 

[bigbull338]

if you get well bred reg beefmaster bulls an breed to a test group of cows.that should produce calmer calves.thus being easier to handle.but you have to buy calm gentle bulls.if a beefmaster bull is wild or crazy then he shouldnt be kept for a breeding bull.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I've bought alot of bulls on order over the years-I used to disposition test Saler bulls by sorting them off by themselves and getting an idea of how they would handle it. There are breeds known for wild that have really improved their cattle disposition so they could survive in the bull market-nothing is tougher on a breed than runaway popularity.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

A Beefmaster would probably work pretty good on a set of F-1 Baldys.

I'd go with the West Texas or Colorado beefmasters over the painted up or black sheathy ones so common in the SE US.

 

[andybob]

These will give the same amount of heterosis, and have generations of performance data available, amd a uniformity resulting from controlled selection of breeding replacements by the breed society, as well as already acclimatised to the Canadian conditions;
http://sangacattle.webs.com/apps/photos ... id=8986914

 

[thommoos]

I ran a few a couple years ago, did quite well before I lost my lease, SOunds like a good plan the only consideration I would have is to be sure you stay away from the Black influnced animals, ( rumor has it there is some Brangus influence there) which if that is tru you might end up with to much brimmer, go with Lasister and Casey type genetic, foundation herd stuff you will like them better, not the pampered ones in the south.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I ran a few a couple years ago, did quite well before I lost my lease, SOunds like a good plan the only consideration I would have is to be sure you stay away from the Black influnced animals, ( rumor has it there is some Brangus influence there) which if that is tru you might end up with to much brimmer, go with Lasister and Casey type genetic, foundation herd stuff you will like them better, not the pampered ones in the south.

how so reckon ?

 

[BC]

I ran a few a couple years ago, did quite well before I lost my lease, SOunds like a good plan the only consideration I would have is to be sure you stay away from the Black influnced animals, ( rumor has it there is some Brangus influence there) which if that is tru you might end up with to much brimmer, go with Lasister and Casey type genetic, foundation herd stuff you will like them better, not the pampered ones in the south.

how so reckon ?

Thommoos, Please explain how you might get too much Brahman influence with the black beefmaster (supposedly Brangus influenced). Beefmaster's are supposed to be about 1/2 Brahman, 1/4 Hereford and 1/4 Shorthorn. A Brangus is 3/8 Brahman. When you use a Beefmaster on an Angus x Hereford cow, the resulting cross should be a 1/4 Brahman-influenced. A Brangus crossed on the same cow would be 3/16 Brahman-influenced or 1/16 less.

By the way, I do think your suggestion of going with the Colorado raised cattle wou;ld be best for someone in Canada.

 

[thommoos]

Please explain how you might get too much Brahman influence with the black beefmaster (supposedly Brangus influenced). Beefmaster's are supposed to be about 1/2 Brahman, 1/4 Hereford and 1/4 Shorthorn. A Brangus is 3/8 Brahman. When you use a Beefmaster on an Angus x Hereford cow, the resulting cross should be a 1/4 Brahman-influenced. A Brangus crossed on the same cow would be 3/16 Brahman-influenced or 1/16 less.

I know what you mean when you do it mathmatically, but does it really come out that way???? Think about it some cattle take on more traits than others. The 62 cow i heard really looked like a shorthorn, big huge thing, have you seen black magic and soul man "Brangus". :cry2: I have a BM Granduaghter she looks just like a brangus, no ear either, skinny leggs she looks like a brangus. I had several BM sons "Brangus" I had a guy stop and tell me that was the good looking BRANGUS :bang: he had seen in a while, and was he for sale, I sold him a the barn they thought he was a brangus :hide:
But hey that is beefmasters I can think of several instances ever seen COHIBA (Brahma) HUGE BULL, talk about ear.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

it works out that way anyway you look at it, as far as percentages.. ive had f1's that would pass as 3/4's bos taurus influence, but phenotypically speaking the brahman look can go a long way some 1/4 bloods look like 3/8 5/8's and so on and on

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Regarding your original question, I don't have any data to add to the discussion. However, I know in the late 1990's when I had a chance to slip behind the scenes of a couple of big feedlots that fed out cattle they purchased for themselves, there was plenty of discussion about decision to stay away from anything with some ear. I wasn't in a position to where I could ask many questions, but I was curious as to how much ear was too much ear with retained ownership.

We have several 1/4 brahma cows that sneak their 1/8th calves in with rest of our mottle faced and angus. The same buyers bid them up each year, so I assume overall, they must not be doing to shabby????

 

[Hereford76]

Has anybody here ran them on black baldy cows and retained ownership on the calves through till slaughter. We kept some 1/4 Brahma heifers the result of some erstwhile bucking bulls. They wintered on hay and licked snow and were some of the first to calve out on grass. I'm getting pretty discouraged by the path the Angus breed has taken-in the midst of calving around 700 right now and the overuse of some bulls has screwed up disposition and doing ability royally. I was going to go back black on the BWF cows but am thinking of trying a bit of this. our 1/4 brahma steers sold right with the straight blacks last year.

i was under the impression the angus breed did it all... i thought the AAA said they have genetics that would out-do any continental breed or breed for that matter in any crossbreeding scenario like you describe.

have you or anyone else ever tried devon on f1 baldies... i am going to breed the f1 baldies back hereford their first go round but don't know what for sure after that. i'd like to just have the peace of mind you get with a horned hereford bull settling cows in a big range country - what would that be if not horned hereford?