Hello. We have been venturing off into fixed time ai heifers with a 5 day co synch, cidr protocal just for heifers. Can someone help with explaining that exact protocal. My 2 show heifers i see come into heat but i never notice a standing heat. Sometimes they bleed off sometimes they dont. My other question is when is the best time in there cycle to start the protocal?
Beef heifer breeding questions
- Thread starter Lacey 95
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I typically breed off natural heats, but I will try to explain.
Heifer gets a shot of GnRH (aka- Cystorelin or Fertagyl) when the CIDR is inserted. Five days later the CIDR is removed and heifer gets a shot of prostaglandin (aka- Lutalyse or Estrumate). Then another shot 8 hours later. Consider applying Estrotect patches when you give the second PG shot. Approximately 2 days later watch for standing heats or the visible Estrotect patches. Heifers showing heat should be restrained, artificially inseminated and given a shot of GnRH. Continue watching for heats until all heifers have been inseminated.
What day works to do the breeding? You should start the process 7-8 days before the breeder is available. Does not matter where the heifers are in their own cycle. Heifers will receive hormones and all will be starting from day 0.
Some smear it all over their butt making it easy to see. Some could be lying down and it goes straight into the bedding pack.
I'm no expert, but I hope this helps.
edit - Once animals are enrolled in a TAI program, adhere to the protocols and administer shots on time. Do not remove animals from the program by breeding them early.
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wbvs58
Well-known member
If you know when your show heifers were on heat I would wait a week before starting the proticol just to put them in a better stage to respond to the prostaglandin.
Ken
Ken
Yes I tend to breed with natural heats but these two show heifers i have watched very carefully( i have cameras on them as well) i never see them in a standing heat. They just get rowdy with a little discharge and thats about it. That's why I needed to find a good protocal with the best conception rate for beef heifers. I sometimes see them bleed off and some times i don't and they are checked everyday. Yes my vet said 10 days or so after signs of heat to start protocal.
We want to do there natural heats but i can never find them in standing heat ever. So i never know how long I should wait to try an AI from the start of the estrus.
farmerjan
Well-known member
If you are trying to do it on natural heats, even if you don't see them standing... when you see them getting restless or a little rowdy... BREED THEM.... if they are still showing signs 12 hrs later breed them again. 2 straws of semen 12 hrs apart is by far better than trying to time it to more exacting breeding.
All the time I did relief breeding for Select Sires, I got to where this was the best advice for small herd farmer owners... and some with a couple show animals... 2 breedings were alot more likely to get them settled... and was less handling than using all the different times through the chute for synching them.
And if they were wanting to be more sure of what they are settled to, we would use a totally different colored sire... mostly angus then followed by a hereford, on black heifers... because a hereford MOSTLY always put a calf on the ground with color as opposed to a black ang on black cow... Yes, I know the recessive gene thing... but this was a guideline for the owner of a few animals...
There is always DNA testing on calves born if registered or something...
I am not against synching, or different protocols.... just all according to conditions, sometimes just breeding twice is easier, less work, and often will catch many that you are not sure of their "stage of heat" cycle.
All the time I did relief breeding for Select Sires, I got to where this was the best advice for small herd farmer owners... and some with a couple show animals... 2 breedings were alot more likely to get them settled... and was less handling than using all the different times through the chute for synching them.
And if they were wanting to be more sure of what they are settled to, we would use a totally different colored sire... mostly angus then followed by a hereford, on black heifers... because a hereford MOSTLY always put a calf on the ground with color as opposed to a black ang on black cow... Yes, I know the recessive gene thing... but this was a guideline for the owner of a few animals...
There is always DNA testing on calves born if registered or something...
I am not against synching, or different protocols.... just all according to conditions, sometimes just breeding twice is easier, less work, and often will catch many that you are not sure of their "stage of heat" cycle.
Okay i apprecaite the advice. I am going to try that. A local techinican here said to give gnrh with both breedings as well for the best chance. Which is different i never tried that.
farmerjan
Well-known member
I have always done gnrh with the first breeding at least....especially for some that have been bred once or twice already; and cheap enough, so do the 2nd breeding also.
I had alot of trouble with some of my guernsey's settling... found out that a couple would seem to delay releasing eggs; so the later breeding and gnrh helped to get them settled.
I had alot of trouble with some of my guernsey's settling... found out that a couple would seem to delay releasing eggs; so the later breeding and gnrh helped to get them settled.
Awesome. Im so glad i learned this protocal. I am defiently going to try this instead of the 5 day protocal. Less shots and stress on them. Yea the technician said once you see any activity even if they aren't on standing heat breed them with gnrh. Then if you see more activity the night or the next morning breed again with gnrh. I was always taught to wait for standing heat and follow am/pm rule. But these 2 heifers i just cant find them in heat but they are restless and rowdy
farmerjan
Well-known member
As with any breeding, there is no guarantee... but this gives you a better chance... the only other thing I have done is to breed AI , and if they don't seem to settle, they go with a bull... You could use a bull for 30 days...in by the day they are due to come into the restless/heat time... leave in 30 days to catch a possible 2nd heat.... and if they don't breed. you might be smarter at this point to ship them with what they are worth at the pound price.
A bull will keep after them for as long as he can get them to stand for 30 seconds, and put alot more semen in there too....
Give a gnrh when you think he might have bred them if you can just for a little extra boost to release the egg.....
And a bull would be less likely to start going looking for a way out from wanting another cow to breed with a short 30 day stay... unless there are cattle on an adjoining fence...
A bull will keep after them for as long as he can get them to stand for 30 seconds, and put alot more semen in there too....
Give a gnrh when you think he might have bred them if you can just for a little extra boost to release the egg.....
And a bull would be less likely to start going looking for a way out from wanting another cow to breed with a short 30 day stay... unless there are cattle on an adjoining fence...
GoWyo
Well-known member
Do you have a steer you can put with them? Sometimes the steer will ride them where another heifer won't.
farmerjan
Well-known member
Great suggestion... forgot about that...
Well yesterday was day 21 with my heifer. Didn't show hardly any signs at all besides bellowing some and had discharge on her. So we ai her and tech said she had a good amount of discharge inside her. Then we gave gnrh shot. But i am so bummed she probably didn't get bred to ai with showing no major signs
farmerjan
Well-known member
Not sure why you would be bummed out that she was not showing any major signs.... If she had good discharge when tech bred her, that is as good a sign as any. Many dairies are not seeing the obvious signs in their cows and using the newer detectors which measure the amount of activity of the animal... restless, walking, and such... and breed without ever seeing them stand many times.Well yesterday was day 21 with my heifer. Didn't show hardly any signs at all besides bellowing some and had discharge on her. So we ai her and tech said she had a good amount of discharge inside her. Then we gave gnrh shot. But i am so bummed she probably didn't get bred to ai with showing no major signs
Showing major signs are no guarantee they will be more likely to settle.
In my opinion, if they bleed off they are more likely to NOT have settled.... I see next to no bleed off in heifers that settle....
Had a dairy with a show heifer they could not get settled... full heats, standing, vet said there wasn't anything that he could find wrong. We put her out to pasture with our angus bull, saw him breed her, then she jumped the fence and got into another pasture, got bred by that bull a couple times... Moved that group and put her in with another group, and another bull is breeding her again. Then had the neighbors bulls tear up fences and she was with those 2 for another month or so.... She never settled... They sold her finally after hitting over 3 yrs old, and never having a calf....with every sign of a normal heat... and vet said she had a CL on her ovaries and everything felt normal... So they don't all breed no matter what....
Hope they will settle now even if the heats are not what you think they should be.
farmerjan
Well-known member
Bleeding off is not a guarantee she didn't settle... hoping she did...
One thing, with some of the guernsey nurse cows I had,....seems they released eggs real late... I would breed them 12-24 hours after heat... one would always settle then... might be something to try...
Or give gnrh as soon as you see her come in heat so she releases an egg and breed 12 hours later???
One thing, with some of the guernsey nurse cows I had,....seems they released eggs real late... I would breed them 12-24 hours after heat... one would always settle then... might be something to try...
Or give gnrh as soon as you see her come in heat so she releases an egg and breed 12 hours later???
