Aubrac cattle breed
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I had a phase where I got excited about new breeds and had to learn everything about them. Even purchased some. That has passed. We have 40 or 50 breeds and there is always somebody who will invent, import, or discover a new one. I don't know whether Aubracs are good or not; but I can't imagine that they have a niche that a line in one of the major two dozen breeds can't fill.
andybob
Well-known member
Could just be a bad picture,but the cow on this website is not very imposing.
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle
Kent
Well-known member
The article states: "The breed was developed in the mountainous and semi-desert regions of southcentral France. The people who raise Aubracs have developed this breed to be efficient and productive under grass conditions. There are no feed grains grown in this region. So they have capitalized on the breed's foraging abilities to produce a highly successful grass-fed called Fleur d'Aubrac."
Why don't American universities focus on developing the breeds we already have, even winnowing out some of the minor breeds, so that we have Angus, Hereford, Char, Simm, etc., that are more specially developed for the region they are raised in. They spend too much time trying to stand on the shoulders of other breeders and get a quick fix for cattle. I say leave the Aubracs in France and get to work developing new lines of Angus and Hereford for the Southeast.
Why don't American universities focus on developing the breeds we already have, even winnowing out some of the minor breeds, so that we have Angus, Hereford, Char, Simm, etc., that are more specially developed for the region they are raised in. They spend too much time trying to stand on the shoulders of other breeders and get a quick fix for cattle. I say leave the Aubracs in France and get to work developing new lines of Angus and Hereford for the Southeast.
Why should the universities do it?
Most on these boards don't trust them anyway.
Most everything good in cattle breeding had it's start with the ranchers.
We don't need the universities to do it.
Aubrac were here in the 70's. Our Tarentaise worked way better.
I have no clue why Yelich just didn't try them instead. Just needed to look for lower milking ability.
mtnman
Most on these boards don't trust them anyway.
Most everything good in cattle breeding had it's start with the ranchers.
We don't need the universities to do it.
Aubrac were here in the 70's. Our Tarentaise worked way better.
I have no clue why Yelich just didn't try them instead. Just needed to look for lower milking ability.
mtnman
Kent":3cliuz92 said:
I agree. This is where the chicken people are light years ahead of us in the beef biz. Almost all the white eggs in the store are laid by a White Leghorn and the brown eggs are usually lain by a cross between a White Leghorn and a Red (usually Rhode Island or New Hampshire). Most of the broilers are crosses between a White Rock and a Broad Breasted Cornish (at one time a hobby breed). The chicken people after playing with every breed in the world for a couple of centuries figured out that they were best served by carefully developing lines within a handful of breeds and focusing on improving those lines and they have had phenomenal genetic progress in their commercial lines by being focused.
Beef cattle breeding on the other hand is usually about selling something NEW. We have 40 or 50 breeds and wildly contrasting cattle even within breeds and everybody has a sales pitch.
Some commercial guy who has bought high performance/high maintenance cattle from one of the existing breeds (and all the major breeds have cow families like that now) will descide he needs to make a change; but instead of buying more moderate easier fleshing cattle from the breeds he was using (and all the major breeds have cow families like that now too), he goes and buys Aubracs. He may get so excited with them that they will convince him to cross his half Aubrac heifers back to Aubrac bulls and work his way into becoming a registered Aubrac fullblood breeder. IF he then makes a living selling Aubrac bulls and Aubrac show heifers GREAT; but inevitably he or somebody he sells cattle too will descide that their easy keeping little Aubrac cows don't perform well enough so Aubracs will get EPDs. Somebody will select for the biggest weaning weight Aubracs and frame will increase. Some big framed moosy Aubrac will win the national Aubrac show at Denver, leading to more big Aubracs and possible some kind of pedigree falsification using Chianinas. The owners of the big moosy Aubracs and the moderate framed easy keeping Aubracs will hate each other's guts. Someone will invent black Aubracs so they can qualify for CAB, somebody else will invent the red Aubrac just to be different and everybody with the traditional Aubracs will hate their guts. Somebody else will invent "calving ease" Aubracs as a result of those big framed high performance Aubracs suddenly causing calving problems so now you need specialist lines (that generally are lite muscled) so the heifers don't die. Somebody will claim that his Aubracs are forage raised Aubracs and you don't need to feed them hay even when there is 20 inches of snow on the ground. Somebody else will claim his Aubracs have 5 or 20 tenderness genes. By this time commercial cattlemen will have 20 years of history with Aubracs. Most will hate the whole breed from bad experience with one extreme line of Aubracs or another and then we will discover some new breed of cattle from the Kings Ranch, France, Japan, or Timbuktu and the whole process of "Americanizing" the new breed will start all over again.
Kent
Well-known member
mtnman":b2girx80 said:
I didn't mean we should RELY on the universities. I just meant that if they are going to do beef cattle research, why not do something that is actually productive? Look at this article. It says the Aubrac cattle were developed "in the mountainous and semi-desert regions of southcentral France." This is the University of FLORIDA doing this research! There are no mountains or deserts in Florida! They are wasting their time and taxpayer dollars, just like they and others did with so many other fad breeds.
Brandonm2,
Awesome summary...a little too realistic...and it made me smile too.
When I first started raising Gelbviehs they hadn't been "toyed" with as much as several of the other breeds. What I really appreciated at the time was that the majority of major players were commercially focused. There was a small percentage of breeders that were really pushing the show ring and some pushing black hided Gelbviehs, but not as much as in some of the other Continental breeds like Simmy's, Maines, Limmy's, etc.
Now you open up a Gelbvieh World magazine and it seems like the majority of ads promote animals that have won Denver, or sired the high-point female for 2005, etc. UGH!!!
Awesome summary...a little too realistic...and it made me smile too.
When I first started raising Gelbviehs they hadn't been "toyed" with as much as several of the other breeds. What I really appreciated at the time was that the majority of major players were commercially focused. There was a small percentage of breeders that were really pushing the show ring and some pushing black hided Gelbviehs, but not as much as in some of the other Continental breeds like Simmy's, Maines, Limmy's, etc.
Now you open up a Gelbvieh World magazine and it seems like the majority of ads promote animals that have won Denver, or sired the high-point female for 2005, etc. UGH!!!
I love my university (Auburn-War Eagle!), but you have to take the info they have to offer, filter through it and use the ideas and techniques that suit your operation. There's a lot to be said for the research conducted by the men and women at the Land Grant universities, but equally there's a world of knowledge stored in the heads of the farmers and ranchers who are out in the real world trying to make a living in production agriculture. BTW, I had a professor at AU who taught General Soils. He was going through a slide presentation and stated that over the years that students had inquired why he didn't go into farming since he knew so much about soils. He said that his daddy had deeded the family farm over to him. He pops up the next slide and says, "This is my family farm after I got it. This is why I teach instead of farm." It was a slide of the Grand Canyon! He was a fantastic old gentleman!Karl":3qyl3z8c said:
andybob
Well-known member
The only problem with comparing the high performing hybrid poultry and pigs, is that they are raised in controlled environments whether in Canada or New Mexico the environment is similar. Cattle, on the other hand, are largely at the mercy of the elements, breeds and crosses that do well in arid, high paracitic environments differ widely to the genotypes adapted to cold, wet environments, mountains and rangeland require different characteristics, so a wider choice of cattle breeds will be required to meet the climatic challenges.
andybob
Well-known member
jcarkie, why go to all the trouble? look at the Tuli on the same website, good conformation and all you need for hot and humid areas, disease resistant and very fertile they need no improvement and cross well with all the popular breeds, both Taurus and Indicus types.
The Tuli circle, where they were developed is famous for big game hunting, not cattle raising,very few cattle breeds can survive there!
The Tuli circle, where they were developed is famous for big game hunting, not cattle raising,very few cattle breeds can survive there!
KMacGinley
Well-known member
Well said Brandomn, You hit the nail exactly on the head. I think that it is like the: Llama, emus Ostiches and now the Alpacas, a big Ponzi scheme. Someone will corner the market on Aubricks and get rich quick. 
UG":3n5oejdy said:
After reading your post, I re-read the 2006 Hereford AI book. Most of the bulls advertised were pictured fitted out winning a class/show somewhere. That or the ad discussed progeny that had won shows. Very few ads discussed what the bull is supposed to do for the real world cattleman. There are several EXCEPTIONS like Holden's; but most breeders picture a fitted show bull, list his major victories, and his EPDs. The guy who is buying semen to make bulls for commercial conditions has to really have a good eye or the gift of prophecy to predict which of those show bulls will or won't work in his real world conditions. Of course that could be why only 15% of the registered Herefords are AI bred too.
Hello to everyone who is participating in the Aubrac discussion. Let me say first that it's a good thing that this dialogue is taking place, and that I look forward to exploring this subject matter in greater detail. Allow me first to respond to some of your criticisms.
1) Aubracs are not the hottest new breed. In fact, they've been in North America since the mid 1970s. The people who are involved with the breed are committed to the cattle, and have been so for many years. I know of NO Aubrac breeder who is in this breed to get rich quick. The fact that a hand full of Aubrac bulls sold for relatively good money last Saturday is not an indication of easy money, but an indicator of the overall quality in the sales offering. These were good bulls that sold to long-standing ranches (one of the buyers is a commercial cow-calf ranch that was founded in 1884).
In addition, you should know that two of the four high-selling bulls were produced by my wife and myself. I know the financial sacrifice we've had to make over the last 12 years to finally see good demand for my Aubrac bulls. To imply that I or my colleagues are "fly-by-nighters" is simply false. We've stayed with it for many years because we believe in the breed, and because we believe the breed has a strong future in the worldwide beef industry.
2) Aubracs are ideally suited for forage-based beef production. Sure, there are breeds available that can produce grass-fed beef, and if you choose to use them, then by all means do so. But what appeals to me about Aubracs is that they were developed for grass-fed production decades ago, and have generations of genetic selection for forage-based beef production standing behind them. In America, Aubracs have been identified by producers and production systems that are aligning with consumers who desire natural, grass-fed beef. Ultimately, developing these kinds of markets -- whether it's with Angus, Salers or Brahman cattle -- is a good thing for all beef producers.
3) The University of Florida is not wasting taxpayer money by researching parasite resistance and fertility in Aubrac cattle. Because of France's colonial history, particularly in Africa, Aubracs were exported from Europe to Africa and have been used extensively there for many years. European research indicates Aubracs have a natural resistance to lethal blood diseases spread by the tse-tse fly. American Aubrac breeders are interested in scientifically documenting some of these production and health attributes in the United States, and have donated extensively out of their own pockets to Dr. Yelich's study. The information he is developing, we believe, will help American producers gain a foothold in critical genetic markets like Brazil and Australia in the years to come and help the entire US beef industry remain competitive. (Angus, which occupies 60% of the US cow herd is not nearly as adaptable to tropical regions as are Aubracs, for instance -- so why should the US industry narrow its ability to penetrate those markets by breeding only Angus?)
4) Guiding the development and growth of the Aubrac breed is a simple belief that beef production should be grass dependent, not corn dependent. You may not agree with this premise. And it's okay if you don't. It's a huge industry for all of us to participate in, to develop our own markets and to breed the type of cattle that best fit our own environments and management situations. The idea that we don't need "another" breed simply because we already have too many is akin to saying we have too many types of cars, trucks and vans. Some people prefer Chevys. Some like BMWs. Others like their Dodge Rams. Why would we want to narrow our economic opportunities by doing what everybody else is doing? A one-size fits-all approach to cattle production would be detrimental to the US beef industry. Like the consumer marketplace, there are huge opportunities out there for all of us if we have the courage to go after them. The question you should be asking is whether you want to continue playing the commodity game, which is what most "nay-sayers" are doing these days, or create value-added opportunities by differentiating your breeding program and aligning yourself with niches within the consumer marketplace. Aubrac breeders believe in doing the latter.
5) If you have any questions or concerns, I invite you to write me at [email protected] or to visit http://www.aubracusa.com. Thanks.
1) Aubracs are not the hottest new breed. In fact, they've been in North America since the mid 1970s. The people who are involved with the breed are committed to the cattle, and have been so for many years. I know of NO Aubrac breeder who is in this breed to get rich quick. The fact that a hand full of Aubrac bulls sold for relatively good money last Saturday is not an indication of easy money, but an indicator of the overall quality in the sales offering. These were good bulls that sold to long-standing ranches (one of the buyers is a commercial cow-calf ranch that was founded in 1884).
In addition, you should know that two of the four high-selling bulls were produced by my wife and myself. I know the financial sacrifice we've had to make over the last 12 years to finally see good demand for my Aubrac bulls. To imply that I or my colleagues are "fly-by-nighters" is simply false. We've stayed with it for many years because we believe in the breed, and because we believe the breed has a strong future in the worldwide beef industry.
2) Aubracs are ideally suited for forage-based beef production. Sure, there are breeds available that can produce grass-fed beef, and if you choose to use them, then by all means do so. But what appeals to me about Aubracs is that they were developed for grass-fed production decades ago, and have generations of genetic selection for forage-based beef production standing behind them. In America, Aubracs have been identified by producers and production systems that are aligning with consumers who desire natural, grass-fed beef. Ultimately, developing these kinds of markets -- whether it's with Angus, Salers or Brahman cattle -- is a good thing for all beef producers.
3) The University of Florida is not wasting taxpayer money by researching parasite resistance and fertility in Aubrac cattle. Because of France's colonial history, particularly in Africa, Aubracs were exported from Europe to Africa and have been used extensively there for many years. European research indicates Aubracs have a natural resistance to lethal blood diseases spread by the tse-tse fly. American Aubrac breeders are interested in scientifically documenting some of these production and health attributes in the United States, and have donated extensively out of their own pockets to Dr. Yelich's study. The information he is developing, we believe, will help American producers gain a foothold in critical genetic markets like Brazil and Australia in the years to come and help the entire US beef industry remain competitive. (Angus, which occupies 60% of the US cow herd is not nearly as adaptable to tropical regions as are Aubracs, for instance -- so why should the US industry narrow its ability to penetrate those markets by breeding only Angus?)
4) Guiding the development and growth of the Aubrac breed is a simple belief that beef production should be grass dependent, not corn dependent. You may not agree with this premise. And it's okay if you don't. It's a huge industry for all of us to participate in, to develop our own markets and to breed the type of cattle that best fit our own environments and management situations. The idea that we don't need "another" breed simply because we already have too many is akin to saying we have too many types of cars, trucks and vans. Some people prefer Chevys. Some like BMWs. Others like their Dodge Rams. Why would we want to narrow our economic opportunities by doing what everybody else is doing? A one-size fits-all approach to cattle production would be detrimental to the US beef industry. Like the consumer marketplace, there are huge opportunities out there for all of us if we have the courage to go after them. The question you should be asking is whether you want to continue playing the commodity game, which is what most "nay-sayers" are doing these days, or create value-added opportunities by differentiating your breeding program and aligning yourself with niches within the consumer marketplace. Aubrac breeders believe in doing the latter.
5) If you have any questions or concerns, I invite you to write me at [email protected] or to visit http://www.aubracusa.com. Thanks.
VanC
Well-known member
Welcome aboard, Aubrac guy(or gal). That was a great first post. Hope it won't be your last. Enjoyed the information and it's nice to see someone stand up for what they believe in without getting snotty about it. Stick around. We could use a few more like you. (Although I must admit, the down in the mud arguments we have around here are kinda fun sometimes). ;-)
andybob
Well-known member
Welcome Aubrac, plenty of fun promoting an 'unknown' breed,most people are keen to know (but not necessarily breed) about your cattle, for the rest, you just need a thick skin! I picked a lot of real abuse in the 70's exporting native cattle to Namibia then to South Africa, today they are the most sought after breed in those countries.
Thanks for the support, Van. I've taken more heat at the local coffee shop over these Aubracs than anything I've ever done, so I've become pretty thick skinned about them. After the successful sale on Saturday, my uncle -- who's been leading the "criticism choir" -- had to eat a little crow when he called me the other night. But he still had the guts to comment: "I still think you're gonna have to breed them black if you're gonna make any headway with them."
"Allen," I responded, "Why would I do that??? You miss the point. Aubracs are about differentiation, not doing what everybody else is doing."
I often wonder about this peculiar obsession cattle producers have with towing the line, and conforming to what everybody else is doing. The myth of the "independent" cowboy is a bunch of doo-doo when it comes to breeding cattle you believe in. There are very few independent-thinking cattle producers left in this business. Those who dare to be different take a lot of heat from those who conform.
"Allen," I responded, "Why would I do that??? You miss the point. Aubracs are about differentiation, not doing what everybody else is doing."
I often wonder about this peculiar obsession cattle producers have with towing the line, and conforming to what everybody else is doing. The myth of the "independent" cowboy is a bunch of doo-doo when it comes to breeding cattle you believe in. There are very few independent-thinking cattle producers left in this business. Those who dare to be different take a lot of heat from those who conform.
