Assisted suicide; yes or no

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Are you for assisted suicide?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Total voters
    1
Victoria":lmt31dbe said:
Frankie - I do not believe myself to be morally superior to you. I do believe that my view on this subject is morally superior to yours otherwise I would not hold it. Morally superior is just saying "is right". Yes I believe I am right and you are wrong. We can not both be right - it can not be good to both kill a person in pain and not kill a person in pain. They are opposite extremes. The fancy relativism we try to live with - your view is good for you and my view is good for me only works if we do not have to answer to God. Since we do have to answer to God then the real question is what view does God want us to hold. It's not about us and what we want to believe. That is why I have quoted scripture because when I am thinking through any of these issues I go to scripture.

No. You quoted scripture because you think it gives you support for your beliefs. Others have quotes scripture that gives them support for the opposite belief. Yes, we'll answer to God and I'm not afraid that my view will condemn me. Arrogance is not a trait I believe God smiles on.

This is the difference- animal rights people don't want anyone eating meat because they think it is wrong. I do not want anyone killing another person because I believe God thinks it is wrong.

Some animal rights people quote scripture to show God loves animals. You can find scripture and interpret it to mean about whatever you want. Several mass murders in our history have been devout Christians who used the Bible as a source of control over their groups.

As far as I know, ssisted suicided is illegal in every state. If I chose to assist a loved one in taking their own life, I probably would be charged and brought to trial. It's comforting to me to look at the opinions expressed here and know that if this board was the jury they would understand, be compassionate and I would walk free.
 
Frankie":2neudxd8 said:
It's comforting to me to look at the opinions expressed here and know that if this board was the jury they would understand, be compassionate and I would walk free.

This is RIPE!!

You use an internet chat board poll to shore up your moral beliefs?

:lol: :lol:

Oh , I gotta go cut hay. :lol:

ALX
 
AngusLimoX":lw2rqlzy said:
Frankie":lw2rqlzy said:
It's comforting to me to look at the opinions expressed here and know that if this board was the jury they would understand, be compassionate and I would walk free.

This is RIPE!!

You use an internet chat board poll to shore up your moral beliefs?

:lol: :lol:

Oh , I gotta go cut hay. :lol:

ALX

Why not? Victoria came on this thread and said:

I have to say that this poll shocked me. I thought the majority on here were Christians and I also thought the majority of Christians did not believe in assisted suicide.

And proceeded to tell us how Christians should act and what they should believe. I'm simply pointing out that she's in disagreement with the majority here, most of whom seem to believe they're Christians.
 
Hang on didn't God give up his only Son for us, was that not assisted death, he didn't ask for death he was put to death and by his Fathers blessing, does this not give a double meaning. I can do it, but you can't. I have found a lot of double morals in the Christian life. Don't all bomb-bard me as I do believe in God and yes I do go to Church, but I also believe in Assisted Euphinasia, when the two parties have agreed it in the past when both were compos mentis.
 
chrisy":1us4j3oo said:
Hang on didn't God give up his only Son for us, was that not assisted death, he didn't ask for death he was put to death and by his Fathers blessing, does this not give a double meaning. I can do it, but you can't. I have found a lot of double morals in the Christian life. Don't all bomb-bard me as I do believe in God and yes I do go to Church, but I also believe in Assisted Euphinasia, when the two parties have agreed it in the past when both were compos mentis.

;-)

God rewards those who do right and punishes those who do wrong. Live the way you are comfortable living knowing the consequences.
 
Frankie":2w4rform said:
Victoria":2w4rform said:
Frankie - I do not believe myself to be morally superior to you. I do believe that my view on this subject is morally superior to yours otherwise I would not hold it. Morally superior is just saying "is right". Yes I believe I am right and you are wrong. We can not both be right - it can not be good to both kill a person in pain and not kill a person in pain. They are opposite extremes. The fancy relativism we try to live with - your view is good for you and my view is good for me only works if we do not have to answer to God. Since we do have to answer to God then the real question is what view does God want us to hold. It's not about us and what we want to believe. That is why I have quoted scripture because when I am thinking through any of these issues I go to scripture.

No. You quoted scripture because you think it gives you support for your beliefs. Others have quotes scripture that gives them support for the opposite belief. Yes, we'll answer to God and I'm not afraid that my view will condemn me. Arrogance is not a trait I believe God smiles on.

This is the difference- animal rights people don't want anyone eating meat because they think it is wrong. I do not want anyone killing another person because I believe God thinks it is wrong.

Some animal rights people quote scripture to show God loves animals. You can find scripture and interpret it to mean about whatever you want. Several mass murders in our history have been devout Christians who used the Bible as a source of control over their groups.

As far as I know, ssisted suicided is illegal in every state. If I chose to assist a loved one in taking their own life, I probably would be charged and brought to trial. It's comforting to me to look at the opinions expressed here and know that if this board was the jury they would understand, be compassionate and I would walk free.

Frankie, I do not go to the Bible to try to make it say what I want it to based on what I believe. I go to the Bible to tell me how I should believe. Has the Bible been misused, yes, because people take quotes out of context. I do not see how any of the scriptures I have quoted from are out of context.
I take it from your post that you find me arrogant. I do not see how any of my posts have been arrogant but if that is how I came across to you then I am sorry you feel this way about me.
 
chrisy":5bogksw7 said:
Hang on didn't God give up his only Son for us, was that not assisted death, he didn't ask for death he was put to death and by his Fathers blessing, does this not give a double meaning. I can do it, but you can't. I have found a lot of double morals in the Christian life. Don't all bomb-bard me as I do believe in God and yes I do go to Church, but I also believe in Assisted Euphinasia, when the two parties have agreed it in the past when both were compos mentis.

Jesus came to die of his own free will. He chose death and yes the Father accepted the sacrifice. I think Jesus is rather a special case though, He was God. Therefore, He could choose to give up His life. We are not gods.
I hope you don't think this response is bombarding you because I sure don't mean it that way.
 
Frankie":13wsbtyi said:
Victoria":13wsbtyi said:
Frankie - I do not believe myself to be morally superior to you. I do believe that my view on this subject is morally superior to yours otherwise I would not hold it. Morally superior is just saying "is right". Yes I believe I am right and you are wrong. We can not both be right - it can not be good to both kill a person in pain and not kill a person in pain. They are opposite extremes. The fancy relativism we try to live with - your view is good for you and my view is good for me only works if we do not have to answer to God. Since we do have to answer to God then the real question is what view does God want us to hold. It's not about us and what we want to believe. That is why I have quoted scripture because when I am thinking through any of these issues I go to scripture.

No. You quoted scripture because you think it gives you support for your beliefs. Others have quotes scripture that gives them support for the opposite belief. Yes, we'll answer to God and I'm not afraid that my view will condemn me. Arrogance is not a trait I believe God smiles on.

This is the difference- animal rights people don't want anyone eating meat because they think it is wrong. I do not want anyone killing another person because I believe God thinks it is wrong.

Some animal rights people quote scripture to show God loves animals. You can find scripture and interpret it to mean about whatever you want. Several mass murders in our history have been devout Christians who used the Bible as a source of control over their groups.

As far as I know, ssisted suicided is illegal in every state. If I chose to assist a loved one in taking their own life, I probably would be charged and brought to trial. It's comforting to me to look at the opinions expressed here and know that if this board was the jury they would understand, be compassionate and I would walk free.

One other question Frankie, what do you base your views on, your feelings or God's Bible?
 
All this talk is just like hunting camp talk. Interesting but not something you can take to the bank.

Until YOU are faced with a situation like this YOU don't know what YOU are going to do. I seriously doubt the folks waving the Bible the highest have ever HAD to make this type decision. If the time ever comes, and I hope it doesn't, I hope for all our sakes WE at least have a choice and I'll let God judge my heart.

PS My God is a loving Father.
 
chrisy":3opzfhcm said:
Hang on didn't God give up his only Son for us, was that not assisted death, he didn't ask for death he was put to death and by his Fathers blessing, does this not give a double meaning. I can do it, but you can't. I have found a lot of double morals in the Christian life. Don't all bomb-bard me as I do believe in God and yes I do go to Church, but I also believe in Assisted Euphinasia, when the two parties have agreed it in the past when both were compos mentis.
This is a totally different situation. Jesus died to save us, much like a man jumping in front of a bus to save a child.
 
Frankie":2cof2s3b said:
No. You quoted scripture because you think it gives you support for your beliefs. Others have quotes scripture that gives them support for the opposite belief.
I must have missed it; I can't find any quoted scripture to support the opposite.
 
Jogeephus":2v8dwvp1 said:
All this talk is just like hunting camp talk. Interesting but not something you can take to the bank.

Until YOU are faced with a situation like this YOU don't know what YOU are going to do. I seriously doubt the folks waving the Bible the highest have ever HAD to make this type decision. If the time ever comes, and I hope it doesn't, I hope for all our sakes WE at least have a choice and I'll let God judge my heart.

PS My God is a loving Father.

I'm with you on this. My Father died when I was 21 and My Mother died when I was 28. Both from cancer. My DAD was a fighter and lasted 5 years with brain cancer but it was tough. I'll give them the biggest bear hug I can when I see them again. They were the best to me.

Too each his own

Walt
 
Jogeephus":g7c8uewe said:
All this talk is just like hunting camp talk. Interesting but not something you can take to the bank.

Until YOU are faced with a situation like this YOU don't know what YOU are going to do. I seriously doubt the folks waving the Bible the highest have ever HAD to make this type decision. If the time ever comes, and I hope it doesn't, I hope for all our sakes WE at least have a choice and I'll let God judge my heart.

PS My God is a loving Father.

Exactly....its easy to preach when you are not in the situation.
 
I have been in quite similar positions 3 times in the last 4 years.

I won't be discussing details on the internet.

Unless someone much younger than me in the family gets cancer or a similar disease I won't have to make those decisions again.

I give a lot of thanks for the palliative care professionals, they are truly wonderful people.

ALX
 
Jogeephus":29la5oo3 said:
All this talk is just like hunting camp talk. Interesting but not something you can take to the bank.

Until YOU are faced with a situation like this YOU don't know what YOU are going to do. I seriously doubt the folks waving the Bible the highest have ever HAD to make this type decision. Don't be so sure. If the time ever comes, and I hope it doesn't, I hope for all our sakes WE at least have a choice and I'll let God judge my heart. You do have a choice. If you fight for the right that only you get to decide when you are going to die then there is only a very miniscual chance that you will not be able to do it yourself. Most assisted suicides that are chosen because the patient fears pain are chosen by cancer patients. So those people if they wish to can kill themselves as soon as thngs start getting bad. (I hope they don't) It is illegal but if you are dead who will charge you? A gunshot well placed is quick death. Now if you are worried about not being able to do that then chances are you would also not be in the position where you are able to choose to do it. So then maybe the law should be opened up so that someone else could choose (doctor, next of kin). Just be aware that if bed space is short or money is involved people may not live as long as they want to. See article below.

PS My God is a loving Father. Hooray, we agree on something!
 
Sad statistic, in Oregon 26% of the assisted suicides performed were asked for because the patient feared inadequate pain relief (notice it is not there was inadequate pain relief - some chose before they tried all pain relief methods). 37% were asked for because the person was afraid they would be a burden to their families.
 
Article from Focus on the Family:
Question


Why is there such concern about the euthanasia movement? If a sick, elderly person wants to die with dignity, I don't see why that should threaten anybody. Why shouldn't we permit a quiet suicide when the quality of life is no longer there?
Answer


Your question is so important in today's cultural environment that I must answer at some length.

You have offered a very seductive argument, especially to those of us who know of older people who are suffering a slow, painful death. It does seem more humane to allow them to go to sleep quietly and escape their misery. It is my firm conviction, however, that untold sorrow for thousands of people and eventual social chaos lie down that road.

The problem, aside from the moral issue of taking human life, is that euthanasia is inevitably progressive in nature. Once you let that snake out of the basket, it will be impossible to control where it slithers! Allow me to illustrate.

Suppose physician-assisted suicide eventually is legalized for elderly people who are terminally ill. How would it be limited thereafter for those who were neither sick nor severely handicapped? How about an older but healthy man who was simply tired of living? Could we really require a note from his physician in order to permit his suicide?

Then if old but healthy people can choose to die, what about the not-so-old? Could a 50-year-old person take the plunge? If not, why not? How about a 40-year-old woman in menopause or a man in midlife crisis? When you stop to think about it, age has nothing to do with the decision. A 20-year-old depressed but healthy student would be as entitled to "death with dignity" as the terminally ill.

If euthanasia is legal for anyone, it will soon become legal for everyone. Neither age, health factors, nor quality of life could be defended as qualifiers. The Hemlock Society, which actively promotes euthanasia, certainly understands that fact. They speak confidently about a "right to die" ... for every human being.

Let's extend that concept now to its worst-case scenario, as suggested by anti-euthanasia activist Rita Marker. Suppose Diane is an 18-year-old high school senior who is loved greatly by her family. One day, she fails to come home from school when expected. By six-thirty that evening, her mother is starting to worry. When eight o'clock rolls around, her father calls the police. There's been no report of an accident, he is told. None of the local hospitals have a patient named Diane. Mom then begins making frantic telephone calls and finally reaches Diane's best friend, Rene. "Oh, Mrs. Johnson," Rene says with compassion. She begins to cry. "I wanted so much to call you, but I promised Diane I would let the clinic tell you."

"Clinic? What clinic?!" says Mrs. Johnson.

"You know," says Rene. "The Life Choice Clinic downtown. I think you'd better call them."

Diane's mother gets the clinic administrator on the line, who says, "I'm terribly sorry, Mrs. Johnson, we were just getting ready to call you. I know this will be hard for you, but please sit down. Diane came in this afternoon and asked to be assisted in her passing. You may know that she had been very depressed about her grades and because of the rejection letter she received from the state university. Then when her boyfriend let her down ... well, she just didn't want to go on living. And as you know, 'right to die' laws now apply to every adult 18 years old and over.

"Try to understand that this is what Diane most wanted. It was her choice, and she is entitled to control her own body. I assure you she was very peaceful as she left us, and her last words were an expression of love for her family."205

Does that story seem too far-fetched to be credible? Perhaps. But who would have thought in 1950 that we would soon be filling garbage bags with perfectly formed premature babies who were mangled or burned to death with salt? Could we have imagined that nearly 40 million of those precious children would be torn from their mothers' wombs?

Can anyone believe that we are incapable of killing any population of people -- especially those who want to die -- when we have wreaked such violence on the most defenseless in our midst?

Historically, those nations that have opened the door to the monster of euthanasia have slid into a nightmare of murder. This is precisely what happened in Nazi Germany. They began by killing the sick and old; then they destroyed the mentally ill, mentally retarded, and infants born with deformities. From there, it was but a small step to begin exterminating "undesirables" -- the Jews, Poles, Gypsies, the nonproductive, political prisoners, homosexuals, and others. Euthanasia was the first small step down the road toward the extermination camps.

Even if this epidemic of murder did not occur, it is certain that "right to death" laws would result in a dramatic increase in the number of suicides occurring annually. Each death would represent incalculable grief, guilt, and sorrow for those left behind.

Suicide may look like an easy way out for the one who dies, but it is perhaps the most painful experience in living for loved ones and relatives -- many of whom would certainly be children. We draw the same conclusion from every angle. Yet the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in California, citing the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Planned Parenthood v. Casey,206 has unleashed it on the American culture. God help us!

205 Focus on the Family, "Euthanasia: The Dark Side of Compassion," Rita Marker, guest, 13-14 March 1989.

206 "Court Backs Assisted Suicide," Reutere, 7 March 1996.
 
One more from Focus on the Family, much shorter. They have some interesting things over there on this topic.

her than the Nazi example, are there modern nations that have legalized euthanasia? If so, what has been the result?
Answer


The nation of Holland has embraced "physician-assisted suicide" with predictable consequences. Although euthanasia is technically illegal, it has been practiced openly for years, with impunity.

The killing began with a few terminally ill patients requesting help in dying from their doctors, much like the "service" Dr. Kevorkian performs in the U.S. (Note: Dr. Kevorkian served a prison term and was released on June 1, 2007.) But in Holland today, more than 2,300 people die at the hands of their physicians every year, and the number is growing steadily.207 Even more alarmingly, an estimated one thousand citizens are killed who did not request assistance in dying. The doctors made the decision on their own or else with the prompting of family members.208 The Dutch Committee to Investigate the Medical Practice of Euthanasia reported 14,691 cases where doctors acted on their own initiative to kill a patient -- without the individual's knowledge or consent.209 Elderly patients can never be sure what their doctors have in mind when they come calling.

Recently, a physician in the Netherlands killed an infant with spina bifida at the parents' request. He was absolved of any wrongdoing.210 Another doctor was acquitted after assisting in the death of a woman who wasn't even ill.211

This is where the slippery slope leads. Whenever the law begins to tolerate the killing of individuals, even those who are terminally ill, that practice will spread and cheapen the value of all human life.

207 P.J. van der Maas, J.J.M. van Delden, and L. Pijenbrog, Euthanasia and Other Medical Decisions Concerning the End of Life: An Investigation Performed upon the Request of the Commission of Inquiry into the Medical Practice Concerning Euthanasia (Amsterdam: Elsevier Science Publishers, 1992), 178.

208 Ibid., 181.

209 Ibid., 73, 75, 183.

210 "Doctor Freed in 'Justified' Mercy Killing," Chicago Tribune, 27 April 1995, N21.

211 "Doctor Unpunished for Dutch Suicide," New York Times, 22 June 1994, 10A.
 
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