Are the days of a small registered breeder over

[John SD]

Small breeders are alive and well "here" Tomorrow, May 5 is the annual Bull Day in Philip SD.

350 bulls selling covering 6 breeds from 35 consignors. It's the front page ad on local shopper paper this week. You can find the sale online at http://www.philiplivestock.com

150 Black Angus bulls from 14 consignors
61 Red Angus bulls from 10 consignors
38 Charolais bulls from 5 consignors
32 Hereford bulls from 2 consignors
3 Limousin bulls from 1 consignor
2 Simmental bulls from 2 consignors

 

[JHH]

I think it depends what your selling. If your selling black angus bulls then yes ( they are every where ) If your selling something unique then no.

 

[midtncattle]

I sure hope we are not dead. I try to use the same bulls as the big boys via AI. I feel I have a good serivce going for people looking for strong genetics. I don't ask as near as much for my animals, but feel I get a good bonus for my time. I have not sold a heifer commercial or registered any wre but off the farm in the last 2-3 years. I am a very small operator, but was able to sell cattle to buyers from Texas, Mississippi, and Kentucky last year. I hope to be as blessed this year.

 

[Jessica06]

Small individualistic breeders will always have a place. If they can provide genetics or something that a big or a mainstream breeder cannot. I personally like getting into one breeders program and sticking with it trying to stay typically 3-5 years behind so that I have time to evaluate the effects of their breeding decisions before it impacts our herd.

I have little use for the vast majority of multiplier seedstock sources. Some of them have good cattle but I don't know how they can have any consistency to when they change AI sires like they change their underwear.

Amen. Especially the last part.

Becoming a cooperator is an option, but not when I have someone else telling me how to breed my cattle, have a bunch end up as junk because the bull of the month is garbage, and then only get as little as half of the selling price for the very few that are good enough to make the sale. No, not ALL cooperator programs are that bad, but I'll gladly take 100%, even if it's only half of what the big guys are getting, selling bulls that WE made and are proud to sell. If they're truly good cattle, word will get around.

 

[Oldtimer]

Small individualistic breeders will always have a place. If they can provide genetics or something that a big or a mainstream breeder cannot. I personally like getting into one breeders program and sticking with it trying to stay typically 3-5 years behind so that I have time to evaluate the effects of their breeding decisions before it impacts our herd.

I have little use for the vast majority of multiplier seedstock sources. Some of them have good cattle but I don't know how they can have any consistency to when they change AI sires like they change their underwear.

I agree Jake... I like the smaller breeders because they usually better know their cattle and how they perform- including dispositions and phenotype- instead of being just a set of numbers like they are for many of the large breeders... I still believe some of the smaller breeders that don't have the big reputation built by years of promotion, are where you can find the "diamonds in the rough"- good cattle with unique genetics at more affordable prices...

 

[Caustic Burno]

With the exception of the club or show cattle people.
Have times changed so much the past five years where the small registered breeder over.
I see several things that indicate this.. one internet auctions where a seller will deliver a bull sight unseen to a buyer on the tv or computer that has seen videos etc of the bull. Once, I went to get a really good bull when I got him home everyone asked where I got him. big mistake. Five people that could of been buyers from me went to that place and bought bulls from them sometimes they even discounted the bulls to them. Another example some others ask do I AI of course I do some. Then they go around and try to AI their cows not buying a bull either. I appreciate the calls and people coming to see the cattle and talk. It has just got out of hand.
I have got in the position where people I have known for years tell me to hold a bull for them later to find out they went somewhere else to a large breeder to get a bull. Watch out for the good ol boys and preachers.
I have seen small purebred dairy breeders and swine breeders go down a similar path but I thought it was industry driven.
What are others thoughts

IMO yes and I was one for over twenty years.
The small breeder can't play the money game it is become.
I have several reasons I believe this a lot just has to do with today's technology.
Hard for the small breeder to keep with the hot magazine bull of the month.
Just a few players driving each breed and the direction of what is good changes like the wind.
A great job has been done on selling paper as well. I continue to be amazed by people
that think sub par cattle are great because of a name on some paper.
It is industry driven as well this goes back to genome mapping in the feedlots.
Fifty percent of the US herd today is black.

 

[bball]

With the exception of the club or show cattle people.
Have times changed so much the past five years where the small registered breeder over.
I see several things that indicate this.. one internet auctions where a seller will deliver a bull sight unseen to a buyer on the tv or computer that has seen videos etc of the bull. Once, I went to get a really good bull when I got him home everyone asked where I got him. big mistake. Five people that could of been buyers from me went to that place and bought bulls from them sometimes they even discounted the bulls to them. Another example some others ask do I AI of course I do some. Then they go around and try to AI their cows not buying a bull either. I appreciate the calls and people coming to see the cattle and talk. It has just got out of hand.
I have got in the position where people I have known for years tell me to hold a bull for them later to find out they went somewhere else to a large breeder to get a bull. Watch out for the good ol boys and preachers.
I have seen small purebred dairy breeders and swine breeders go down a similar path but I thought it was industry driven.
What are others thoughts

IMO yes and I was one for over twenty years.
The small breeder can't play the money game it is become.
I have several reasons I believe this a lot just has to do with today's technology.
Hard for the small breeder to keep with the hot magazine bull of the month.
Just a few players driving each breed and the direction of what is good changes like the wind.
A great job has been done on selling paper as well. I continue to be amazed by people
that think sub par cattle are great because of a name on some paper.
It is industry driven as well this goes back to genome mapping in the feedlots.
Fifty percent of the US herd today is black.

I was waiting for you to weigh in CB. :nod:

 

[u4411clb]

I don't think the time of the small registered breeder is over. I think the diffrent environments that we raise cattle in make the small breeder relevant. I shop for hereford bulls with a local breeder and I choose his home grown bulls over his AI bulls. Why its not becaause their epds are better because they aren't. I choose his home grown bulls because I know if he kept them that they do really well on infected fescue. It does me no good to bring in a bull from a great Montana bull or Texas ranch bull and to have it in the shade and limping and losing a tail because it is on fescue at my place. I know if this local guy has a bull he saved to use it has thrived on fescue and he has taken the guess work out of it for me. A big registered breeder can't offer that. All his bulls and heifers are slick haired and happy on my place andno limping.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't think the time of the small registered breeder is over. I think the diffrent environments that we raise cattle in make the small breeder relevant. I shop for hereford bulls with a local breeder and I choose his home grown bulls over his AI bulls. Why its not becaause their epds are better because they aren't. I choose his home grown bulls because I know if he kept them that they do really well on infected fescue. It does me no good to bring in a bull from a great Montana bull or Texas ranch bull and to have it in the shade and limping and losing a tail because it is on fescue at my place. I know if this local guy has a bull he saved to use it has thrived on fescue and he has taken the guess work out of it for me. A big registered breeder can't offer that. All his bulls and heifers are slick haired and happy on my place andno limping.

The small producers days are numbered the registered will go first.
Before health and drought changed my course a major player was wanting to partnership
some of my bulls and his. IMO it was the only way a small operation running 35 to 40 head could stay
competitive in the game. If you are a true seed stock producer and realize 30 to maximum 40% of your
calf crop are seed stock material the rest sale barn. Or you are the breeder selling paper that won't last.
But my crystal ball only sees the Cattleman that delivers what the industry wants staying alive.
The problem with most registered operations they don't realize the Commercial/terminal operator drives the
industry not the registered.

 

[slick4591]

I think it depends what your selling. If your selling black angus bulls then yes ( they are every where ) If your selling something unique then no.

I think you're exactly correct. Not many producing my breed as I'm probably one of 5 or 6 in my state

 

[Caustic Burno]

I think it depends what your selling. If your selling black angus bulls then yes ( they are every where ) If your selling something unique then no.

I think you're exactly correct. Not many producing my breed as I'm probably one of 5 or 6 in my state

IMO and it is a sad thought to where we came from to where we are at and the direction of the industry today
the unique breeder doesn't stand a chance. The feedlot dictates the prices by what they want and through
scientific process they have decided on a few breeds and their crosses. The commercial cattleman is going to follow the dollar.
My crystal ball and it is no better than anyone else sees us going from very diverse to
almost as closed as dairy. The ship has already sailed on that with the infusion of Angus genetics
into almost every breed. The only unique breed I see surviving this is the Brahman as no other gives as much
hybred vigor with English or Continental cross and that is scientific. The terminal calf will have to be a 3 way
cross to draw the premium covering up the Brahman.

 

[Brand]

I enjoyed reading all the posts of this topic I started. Everyone gave me much better outlook to my question.
I attended a dispersal sale yesterday with 100 cow calf pairs that averaged over 7,800 all cattle sold. Real money. I saw a lot of small breeders buying from a breeder that had only been in the cattle business a few years.