Are Guns America's Biggest Problem?

[kenny thomas]

In 2011 which US state was the first to have an official state gun? Utah, A Browning pistol.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

In 2011 which US state was the first to have an official state gun? Utah, A Browning pistol.

I prefer S&W as you know.

 

[kenny thomas]

Never owned a Browning but sure have a few Smiths.

 

[MistyMorning]

First of all I only clarified terminology. And I never made lite of this tragedy. But any person that believes GUNs are the problem is the only ignorant ones here. This is a social, mental problem within our society. If your knowledge of weapons is limited I suggest reserving your judgement on things you don't understand. Any person can carry 100s of rounds in 10 round magazines and it only takes split seconds to change them.

The endless banging of the head emoticon indicates some kind of frustration or ridicule with what the poster wrote.

Did you read the original post? I posted it in the belief that guns are NOT the problem. I totally agree with you that it is a social, mental issue within our society. Now how do we fix it.

 

[M-5]

How do we fix it??? Well my solution breaks forum rules because it has involves politics and religion. Truth is been happening since beginning of time and it will continue long after we are gone. The real solution starts at home with real parents man/woman, a healthy dose of the Bible and eliminate the welfare system that enables people to have no self respect.

 

[Kingfisher]

Nothing like being called an "idiot" and challenged in the same sentence by someone that admits their " dumb" to the whole deal.....it's all good though ...I've got Texas and 20pts.

 

[boondocks]

How do we fix it??? Well my solution breaks forum rules because it has involves politics and religion. Truth is been happening since beginning of time and it will continue long after we are gone. The real solution starts at home with real parents man/woman, a healthy dose of the Bible and eliminate the welfare system that enables people to have no self respect.

A healthy dose of the Bible like that kid that shot up the church in the middle of Bible study he was attending? "Real" parents like the Oregon shooter's mother (a nurse) that was a big gun fan, and thought it just a grand idea to supply her troubled son with them, and the training on how to use them?

Mind you, I'm not saying that we don't have an awful lot of parents who are abdicating their responsibilities. But I have seen as much of that in the higher classes as in the lower classes, in some ways. And I think you are mistaken that supposedly religious people aren't violent*, or that traditional and gun-loving parents can't be bad parents.
*(Come to think of it, the only person who has ever explicitly threatened to kill me was a faithful 3x/week churchgoer from a major Bible-thumping family).

I have guns. But I am not so naive as to think that I am some grand hero that could have saved those poor souls, no matter how much training I had. And for that matter, why should those who don't want to be forced to have guns to protect themselves from gun-lovers? Maybe it's time for gun proponents to realize some sane safeguards are needed, before a serious anti-gun lobby takes over.

 

[dun]

Maybe it's time for gun proponents to realize some sane safeguards are needed, before a serious anti-gun lobby takes over.

Back to the camels nose under the tent:
http://camelphotos.com/tales_nose.html

 

[Jogeephus]

But I am not so naive as to think

I beg to differ. You are, you really are. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[dieselbeef]

I was being a sarcastic jacka$$ as I am s tired of this whole ''what are we gonna do about it'' plight.

I and my son are both life members of the nra. I have a small collection of different guns. I completely understand what a ''repeating handgun is''...many of my tools hold more than 30 rds.

in the middle east now stabbing is the latest method of choice in the news. Charles manson didn't shoot anyone if I recall. neither did that cult of suicidal people that all died.dividians? .think they all knew that was going to happen.

if it wasn't a gun it wold be fire in a church..or a car at a music festival...or stabbing run amuck thru a mall. maybe you would like a suicidal bomber taking out an entire college campus 911 style...or maybe poisoning them.

get the idea..its not the weapon of choice as there are many...its the choice being made by the person holding the weapon

I am constitutional in beliefs. but I do think as many times as it has been up held it has been ostracized as well...like most things it can be construed to read as you would like to interpret it.

lets get a handle on social media first huh...they cant even control that much less guns...

 

[M-5]

How do we fix it??? Well my solution breaks forum rules because it has involves politics and religion. Truth is been happening since beginning of time and it will continue long after we are gone. The real solution starts at home with real parents man/woman, a healthy dose of the Bible and eliminate the welfare system that enables people to have no self respect.

A healthy dose of the Bible like that kid that shot up the church in the middle of Bible study he was attending?Crazy is Crazy no matter what they are taught, A deep rooted faith keeps a person on the moral side of the fence most of the time. "Real" parents like the Oregon shooter's mother (a nurse) that was a big gun fan, and thought it just a grand idea to supply her troubled son with them, and the training on how to use them? While a lot of single parents do a good job , nothing replaces a mom and dad at teaching children about family values

Mind you, I'm not saying that we don't have an awful lot of parents who are abdicating their responsibilities. But I have seen as much of that in the higher classes as in the lower classes, in some ways. And I think you are mistaken that supposedly religious people aren't violent*, or that traditional and gun-loving parents can't be bad parents. Every single person has the capabilities of being that person who does these heinous acts. if you run the numbers the statistic's are low when you apply Complete moral family unit
*(Come to think of it, the only person who has ever explicitly threatened to kill me was a faithful 3x/week churchgoer from a major Bible-thumping family).

I have guns. But I am not so naive as to think that I am some grand hero that could have saved those poor souls, no matter how much training I had. And for that matter, why should those who don't want to be forced to have guns to protect themselves from gun-lovers? Maybe it's time for gun proponents to realize some sane safeguards are needed, before a serious anti-gun lobby takes over.

The real numbers are down in mass shootings. so don't be so naïve to this just because the media sensationalizes it we are seeing more of this kind of tragedy. More guns in the hands of law abiding citizens makes for a safer environment. death is a pretty good deterrent to criminals. and the heros you read about never could really prepare for that day that they made the decision to defend their life or someones elses . they just handled the situation they were facing. you nor I can not fathom self preservation until we are put in that situation.

 

[hurleyjd]

Katpau, you need some personal gun training. No one can protect you, you need to be able to protect yourself. I've taught and trained all the women in our family how to defend themselves. This is my daughter and don't let the smile fool you, she's ready to defend herself.

Does your daughter carry that pretty little shotgun with her 24/7. When in school does she prop it up beside her desk. When in Church lay it in the pew next to her. Maybe you have a gun stand behind the back of each pew like they have the hymnals and bibles. Would hate to live a life centered around a gun.

 

[Ryder]

The police are not yet releasing all of the details, however they did say he had purchased 14 guns. Most in the last three months. All legally purchased, mostly by him. A few by a close relative. (probably Mom?) I believe he brought at least 7 onto campus and had at least 4 of them with him in the room at the time of the shooting. His long guns were still in the vehicle parked nearby. At least one was a repeating rifle. He had a bullet proof vest and plenty of spare ammunition, but never had to reload. I thought most hand guns only had 6 bullets, but my husband told me he had one of those guns with the repeating handgun cartridge. He smiled and seemed to enjoy himself as he tortured them and asked them to beg for their life, and then said "Not good enough". One of the survivors faked death after another fell on her covering her in blood. He asked someone if she was alive. They responded "I don't know", so he shot the one who answered and moved to the next. She said when the officers arrived, he went out the door and began to fire. He was hit, and then came back in the room. Said something like "I'm hit. I'm done. Then shot himself.

Katpau thank you for responding to my question.
Don't let not being an expert on gun terminology bother you. Your response to my question was sincere. Anybody that makes an issue over gun terminology in this context has a problem. Not you.
I have been around guns a long time and I usually use the term "clip" rather than "magazine". The word "clip" is how I first heard it and it stuck. It is also easier to say than "magazine". Many people say it the same as I do.
You explained what you meant and that was good enough.

If you don't think you could use a gun then I think you use good judgment not to have one. That is your decision and you have as much right not to own a gun as I do to have one.

 

[talltimber]

Katpau, you need some personal gun training. No one can protect you, you need to be able to protect yourself. I've taught and trained all the women in our family how to defend themselves. This is my daughter and don't let the smile fool you, she's ready to defend herself.

Does your daughter carry that pretty little shotgun with her 24/7. When in school does she prop it up beside her desk. When in Church lay it in the pew next to her. Maybe you have a gun stand behind the back of each pew like they have the hymnals and bibles. Would hate to live a life centered around a gun.

Why does wanting to be able to protect themselves have to mean their life is centered around a gun? You use the bathroom right? Is your life centered around **** houses?

If you don't think you could use a gun then I think you use good judgment not to have one. That is your decision and you have as much right not to own a gun as I do to have one.

x2

There are a lot of misguided individuals in this country. I hope none have to endure an incident like what those have had to with the multiple casualty events. If I had to, I would sure feel better about being able to try to defend myself. And to the other poster, no one is wanting it to be a requirement for everyone to have guns (either legally or out of necessity). But I want the option. I have the option, with very few exceptions. For the weak minded and the weak hearted, there might come a time when you wish you had a friend with a gun to stand behind. There will always be crazies, and fanatics, why do you want EVERYONE to be subjected to their next whim, without so much as a snowballs chance.

There was what I took to be a pointed statement about the timeliness of the police response at this shooting. I am grateful they got there so fast, but faster than someone can slip a pistol out of their backpack?? or out of a iwb kidney holster, done sitting down with little movement?? When the shooting started, shooter is looking at who he is shooting correct? Come on people, use your head. Shooter will shoot the first defenders he sees, all at once?? They (those that would have liked to have been carrying and were legal to do so) didn't have the option of protecting themselves or others, some one else doomed them to the fate of not being able to carry. Think about that when you're pointing the finger.

Did the naysayers of the theory that an armed defender could alter the outcome ever think that, if he's shooting the ones carrying, he's leaving you alone? :lol2:

 

[Caustic Burno]

What your missing is these people don't attack hard targets or where carry is legal and someone can shoot back.
They know going in there is no danger to them and they have X amount of time to commit their mission.

 

[boondocks]

But I am not so naive as to think

I beg to differ. You are, you really are. Don't sell yourself short.

Did I get personal with you? Insult you? I did not. Appreciate the same courtesy. Thanks.

 

[Bestoutwest]

But I am not so naive as to think

I beg to differ. You are, you really are. Don't sell yourself short.

Did I get personal with you? Insult you? I did not. Appreciate the same courtesy. Thanks.

That's part of the allure of the internet. You get to insult people, hundreds of miles away, that you've never met. Honestly, I think that most everyone on here would get together, sit down, and have one heck of a time talking over a cold beer.

One of the biggest problems here is that everyone is slinging mud haphazardly over this issue. That's not the way to solve the problem. I know a lot of you blame this on fractured families, lack of religion, etc. Something no one has mentioned is the amount of violence everyone is subjected to via television shows, commercials, sports, movies, the internet, music, video games, etc. Watch TV, I dare you (horrible, I know) and you'll see violence on TV all night long. I'm talking about the local channels, prime time. Yet, you'll never hear a swear word, naked body, someone using the bathroom. I'm not suggesting that we should!!! Don't miss my point here: We, as a society, are normalizing violence above all other things. We are teaching everyone that violence is more normal than almost everything else.

 

[M-5]

you need to pay attention BOW the "prime time" shows are riddled with vulgar language. And they have pushed the limit on naked on "primetime" as well.

 

[Bestoutwest]

you need to pay attention BOW the "prime time" shows are riddled with vulgar language. And they have pushed the limit on naked on "primetime" as well.

We don't normally watch prime time, but what I do catch I'm not a huge fan of. If we watch TV it's usually kids' shows. Then we put our son down, and I water cows and do stuff to prepare for tomorrow. When we do sit down to watch shows it's usually stuff that is completely inappropriate for children BUT! our son is not privvy to it. I wish more parents cared. It's really sad.

 

[1wlimo]

That's part of the allure of the internet. You get to insult people, hundreds of miles away, that you've never met. Honestly, I think that most everyone on here would get together, sit down, and have one heck of a time talking over a cold beer.

One of the biggest problems here is that everyone is slinging mud haphazardly over this issue. That's not the way to solve the problem. I know a lot of you blame this on fractured families, lack of religion, etc. Something no one has mentioned is the amount of violence everyone is subjected to via television shows, commercials, sports, movies, the internet, music, video games, etc. Watch TV, I dare you (horrible, I know) and you'll see violence on TV all night long. I'm talking about the local channels, prime time. Yet, you'll never hear a swear word, naked body, someone using the bathroom. I'm not suggesting that we should!!! Don't miss my point here: We, as a society, are normalizing violence above all other things. We are teaching everyone that violence is more normal than almost everything else.

It is only post WWII that armies have a very high incidence of people actually trying to kill people who face them on the battle field. Then they changed the way they train people. I think that TV and video games could have a very real effect on the general population. Not very many happy story TV's shows.

Not sure that the fear and notoriety from both sides helps in the debate either.