Are Guns America's Biggest Problem?

[Katpau]

I just had a thought. I am not certain but historically deer season in Oregon opens up one week before deer season in Washington. That means that rifle deer season would be opening up this weekend. Obama is wanting to go to Roseburg on Friday. Half the population of Douglas County will be packing deer rifles. Do you see a conflict? A nightmare for Secret Service and security. And these people are going to go hunting. They don't care who is in town. He might want to cancel this visit.

Deer season began last Saturday, and half the population packing deer rifles might be an underestimation. But I would expect Obama is safer here than in Washington. Most of our population feels much the way the OP describes in the opening remarks. Guns are for hunting and target practice. The victims of Thursday's shooting at UCC were local, but the shooter was a psychopath that moved here recently with his mother from somewhere in California. He lived in an apartment across the street from where my children attended elementary school. The college and his apartment are both less than a mile from my house. I can see it if I climb the hill behind my house. What happened here would not have been prevented even if everyone on campus was carrying. He shot the teacher through the door, and then terrorized a group of mostly 18 year old kids and a few old ladies taking a writing class. He had attended the class a few days prior and he was described as asking lots of questions and being an active participant. He saw himself as smarter and saner than others, and felt under appreciated. He handed his writings to a student and made him sit back. The others were told to lie on the floor and were then asked to rise one at a time. They were questioned and shot, no matter the answer. A lady in a wheel chair, was told to get back in her chair so he could kill her there. He did. A fellow in the Veterans Center went to see what was happening and was shot seven times when he tried to tackle the guy. There were others on campus with guns, but the police arrived in minutes, engaged him, and when he was hit he pulled back in the room and shot himself. In only a few minutes he killed, wounded or terrorized every one in the room. I am not sure how any of those smug people who think they could have stopped any of this if they had been there with a gun, think they would have been of help. There was no time and no warning.

I too believe the internet and the media have more to do with the mindset of the young monsters who commit these horrific crimes than does owning guns. They spend their days playing violent video games until the are numb to the consequences. Get killed and you just hit replay or whatever and start over. The media follows every one of these events. People like the Roseburg shooter, see this as their one chance to be noticed.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm lost. Was the impetus for this thread the recent Oregon school shooting? If so, I don't get the connection about minorities or brood mares, etc etc. What I'm hearing is that it was another young (white) man with mental health issues (possibly with Asperger's), whose dolt of a parent (mother, in this instance) thought it a great idea to help a troubled young man get a bunch of guns. Much like the Newtown CT situation (Sandy Hook elementary school).

Do I have the facts wrong? Are not most/all of the recent "mass shooters" (school, church, movie theaters) young troubled white guys (and an Asian guy or two)?

Why do you insist on bringing race in this? I hate to bust your bubble but blacks don't have a monopoly on brood mares. Our current system rewards such sorriness in any color. If it were a puppy farm or someone with to many animals they neglected people would be up in arms but not so with a poor child who is brought into the world without a family a chance at a decent life. No. We encourage that. Its sad.

LBJ's Great Society at its finest.

 

[Ryder]

So what kind of gun was that Oregon shooter using?
Anyone know?

 

[Katpau]

The police are not yet releasing all of the details, however they did say he had purchased 14 guns. Most in the last three months. All legally purchased, mostly by him. A few by a close relative. (probably Mom?) I believe he brought at least 7 onto campus and had at least 4 of them with him in the room at the time of the shooting. His long guns were still in the vehicle parked nearby. At least one was a repeating rifle. He had a bullet proof vest and plenty of spare ammunition, but never had to reload. I thought most hand guns only had 6 bullets, but my husband told me he had one of those guns with the repeating handgun cartridge. He smiled and seemed to enjoy himself as he tortured them and asked them to beg for their life, and then said "Not good enough". One of the survivors faked death after another fell on her covering her in blood. He asked someone if she was alive. They responded "I don't know", so he shot the one who answered and moved to the next. She said when the officers arrived, he went out the door and began to fire. He was hit, and then came back in the room. Said something like "I'm hit. I'm done. Then shot himself.

 

[tom4018]

I just had a thought. I am not certain but historically deer season in Oregon opens up one week before deer season in Washington. That means that rifle deer season would be opening up this weekend. Obama is wanting to go to Roseburg on Friday. Half the population of Douglas County will be packing deer rifles. Do you see a conflict? A nightmare for Secret Service and security. And these people are going to go hunting. They don't care who is in town. He might want to cancel this visit.

Deer season began last Saturday, and half the population packing deer rifles might be an underestimation. But I would expect Obama is safer here than in Washington. Most of our population feels much the way the OP describes in the opening remarks. Guns are for hunting and target practice. The victims of Thursday's shooting at UCC were local, but the shooter was a psychopath that moved here recently with his mother from somewhere in California. He lived in an apartment across the street from where my children attended elementary school. The college and his apartment are both less than a mile from my house. I can see it if I climb the hill behind my house. What happened here would not have been prevented even if everyone on campus was carrying. He shot the teacher through the door, and then terrorized a group of mostly 18 year old kids and a few old ladies taking a writing class. He had attended the class a few days prior and he was described as asking lots of questions and being an active participant. He saw himself as smarter and saner than others, and felt under appreciated. He handed his writings to a student and made him sit back. The others were told to lie on the floor and were then asked to rise one at a time. They were questioned and shot, no matter the answer. A lady in a wheel chair, was told to get back in her chair so he could kill her there. He did. A fellow in the Veterans Center went to see what was happening and was shot seven times when he tried to tackle the guy. There were others on campus with guns, but the police arrived in minutes, engaged him, and when he was hit he pulled back in the room and shot himself. In only a few minutes he killed, wounded or terrorized every one in the room. I am not sure how any of those smug people who think they could have stopped any of this if they had been there with a gun, think they would have been of help. There was no time and no warning.

I too believe the internet and the media have more to do with the mindset of the young monsters who commit these horrific crimes than does owning guns. They spend their days playing violent video games until the are numb to the consequences. Get killed and you just hit replay or whatever and start over. The media follows every one of these events. People like the Roseburg shooter, see this as their one chance to be noticed.

Just wondering why you say someone carrying could not have stopped him? If someone engaged him the same thing may have happened that did when the police arrived but sooner.

 

[MistyMorning]

Katpau, so sorry for your community, my heart goes out to all of you.

 

[dieselbeef]

so we once again are blaming guns..i got that right...? since he had so many..um...repeating cartridge type handguns....what exactly is one of those if I could be so stupid as to ask

 

[Bestoutwest]

Just wondering why you say someone carrying could not have stopped him? If someone engaged him the same thing may have happened that did when the police arrived but sooner.

Would that person be cool under fire? Would they know how to position themselves correctly so as not to hit anyone else? Would they be able to identify the shooter quickly enough (yeah, I know, the guy with the gun, but in a traumatic situation sometimes things aren't always as they appear) to be effective? Are they a good enough shot or just some wanna-be sherrif with a gun on their hip?

People need to remember that police officers and soldiers have hours and hours of training specifically associated with enganging the enemy. As a citizen, we don't. I think it's akin to taking an NFL fan, putting them in pads, and then sending them out to run patterns against Dion Sanders. Good luck.

 

[Dave]

I just had a thought. I am not certain but historically deer season in Oregon opens up one week before deer season in Washington. That means that rifle deer season would be opening up this weekend. Obama is wanting to go to Roseburg on Friday. Half the population of Douglas County will be packing deer rifles. Do you see a conflict? A nightmare for Secret Service and security. And these people are going to go hunting. They don't care who is in town. He might want to cancel this visit.

Deer season began last Saturday, and half the population packing deer rifles might be an underestimation. But I would expect Obama is safer here than in Washington. Most of our population feels much the way the OP describes in the opening remarks. Guns are for hunting and target practice. The victims of Thursday's shooting at UCC were local, but the shooter was a psychopath that moved here recently with his mother from somewhere in California. He lived in an apartment across the street from where my children attended elementary school. The college and his apartment are both less than a mile from my house. I can see it if I climb the hill behind my house. What happened here would not have been prevented even if everyone on campus was carrying. He shot the teacher through the door, and then terrorized a group of mostly 18 year old kids and a few old ladies taking a writing class. He had attended the class a few days prior and he was described as asking lots of questions and being an active participant. He saw himself as smarter and saner than others, and felt under appreciated. He handed his writings to a student and made him sit back. The others were told to lie on the floor and were then asked to rise one at a time. They were questioned and shot, no matter the answer. A lady in a wheel chair, was told to get back in her chair so he could kill her there. He did. A fellow in the Veterans Center went to see what was happening and was shot seven times when he tried to tackle the guy. There were others on campus with guns, but the police arrived in minutes, engaged him, and when he was hit he pulled back in the room and shot himself. In only a few minutes he killed, wounded or terrorized every one in the room. I am not sure how any of those smug people who think they could have stopped any of this if they had been there with a gun, think they would have been of help. There was no time and no warning.

I too believe the internet and the media have more to do with the mindset of the young monsters who commit these horrific crimes than does owning guns. They spend their days playing violent video games until the are numb to the consequences. Get killed and you just hit replay or whatever and start over. The media follows every one of these events. People like the Roseburg shooter, see this as their one chance to be noticed.

I wasn't thinking that Obama would be in danger but rather that the secret service would go nuts when there are so many guns around. My brother was a cop in Seattle. He told me stories about the things they did when the president came to town.
My heart goes out to your community and the families of the victims.

 

[Katpau]

so we once again are blaming guns..i got that right...? since he had so many..um...repeating cartridge type handguns....what exactly is one of those if I could be so stupid as to ask

I was also unaware such a thing was available, but have now been told that his handguns had clips of something like 20 bullets. They apparently make repeating handguns with cartridges that contain many more bullets than the normal six shooter. His 20 victims were all shot up to 10 times each. He still had guns and cartridges ready to go. Go to Wikepedia and there is a whole list of these guns.

 

[M-5]

how can we expect the anti gunners to understand it when the proponents cant even get it right.

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

 

[Katpau]

I just had a thought. I am not certain but historically deer season in Oregon opens up one week before deer season in Washington. That means that rifle deer season would be opening up this weekend. Obama is wanting to go to Roseburg on Friday. Half the population of Douglas County will be packing deer rifles. Do you see a conflict? A nightmare for Secret Service and security. And these people are going to go hunting. They don't care who is in town. He might want to cancel this visit.

Deer season began last Saturday, and half the population packing deer rifles might be an underestimation. But I would expect Obama is safer here than in Washington. Most of our population feels much the way the OP describes in the opening remarks. Guns are for hunting and target practice. The victims of Thursday's shooting at UCC were local, but the shooter was a psychopath that moved here recently with his mother from somewhere in California. He lived in an apartment across the street from where my children attended elementary school. The college and his apartment are both less than a mile from my house. I can see it if I climb the hill behind my house. What happened here would not have been prevented even if everyone on campus was carrying. He shot the teacher through the door, and then terrorized a group of mostly 18 year old kids and a few old ladies taking a writing class. He had attended the class a few days prior and he was described as asking lots of questions and being an active participant. He saw himself as smarter and saner than others, and felt under appreciated. He handed his writings to a student and made him sit back. The others were told to lie on the floor and were then asked to rise one at a time. They were questioned and shot, no matter the answer. A lady in a wheel chair, was told to get back in her chair so he could kill her there. He did. A fellow in the Veterans Center went to see what was happening and was shot seven times when he tried to tackle the guy. There were others on campus with guns, but the police arrived in minutes, engaged him, and when he was hit he pulled back in the room and shot himself. In only a few minutes he killed, wounded or terrorized every one in the room. I am not sure how any of those smug people who think they could have stopped any of this if they had been there with a gun, think they would have been of help. There was no time and no warning.

I too believe the internet and the media have more to do with the mindset of the young monsters who commit these horrific crimes than does owning guns. They spend their days playing violent video games until the are numb to the consequences. Get killed and you just hit replay or whatever and start over. The media follows every one of these events. People like the Roseburg shooter, see this as their one chance to be noticed.

Just wondering why you say someone carrying could not have stopped him? If someone engaged him the same thing may have happened that did when the police arrived but sooner.

The police were close by and ran in without any tactical gear. They were there as fast as any armed guard could have run across campus. Call came in a 10:38 and it was all over within minutes. There were armed students in the Veterans Center on campus, but the police beat them there. This is a community college with many adult students and there were other armed people on campus. That did not help. The calls went to 911 and the police had arrived before most of the campus even knew what the excitement was about. He took out the teacher through the door. Unless there had been multiple armed students who had immediately rushed him, there was no way to stop what happened. Even then the first few armed students would surely have been killed. I doubt the average group of first year college students would be willing to risk their lives by pulling a gun on a man aiming at them. The students who survived said they were confused for the first minute thinking this must be some sort of practice drill. Students in the next room, only heard what they thought was something falling. When more shots were fired, she knocked on the door to ask if everything was OK. Only when screams and more shooting followed, did those students run for their lives.

 

[Katpau]

I am not sure if the post above about clips and magazines is directed at me, but I apologize for being ignorant about guns. I don't have an interest in them and like many women, I am not familiar with most of the terms. My husband has many guns for hunting, but I really don't pay much attention to that interest. It was my husband who was trying to explain the type of guns involved and all I understood was that the guns did not have to be reloaded until they had shot 20 or more bullets each. That seems like something no person who is not either in the military or law enforcement should ever own. We have a lifetime membership in the gun club across from the college, and I suppose I should try to learn more, but the last thing I need is to be holding a gun that I can't bring myself to shoot. I am much more likely to be shot with my own gun, than I am to shoot someone.

This whole thing has been extremely difficult for everyone in this community, and anyone who implies it would not have happened if someone did something different is just being hurtful. Today while delivering calves, we drove past the college entrance several times. I could not stop crying every time I saw that corner covered in flowers and signs. Anyone who thinks that if they had been there with a gun, it would not have happened, is an idiot. I don't know if any kind of gun control would slow this problem down, but those people who run out and buy more guns because they are afraid their freedom is being challenged are just as insensitive as the people who suggest gun control for political motives. Too many people only seem to care about how this affects them. The victims are unreal to them.

 

[Caustic Burno]

so we once again are blaming guns..i got that right...? since he had so many..um...repeating cartridge type handguns....what exactly is one of those if I could be so stupid as to ask

Sounds like a student of Hitler philosophy that worked out really well.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... p-halbrook

 

[ram]

Katpau, you need some personal gun training. No one can protect you, you need to be able to protect yourself. I've taught and trained all the women in our family how to defend themselves. This is my daughter and don't let the smile fool you, she's ready to defend herself.

 

[kenny thomas]

Bare feet d a pink camo shotgun, bet the boys cant resist her. 8)

 

[Caustic Burno]

Bare feet d a pink camo shotgun, bet the boys cant resist her. 8)

Beautiful girl must take after her mom.
I am so happy I don't have one that age anymore.
Now it is grand daughters and I love the poetic justice.
Middle grand daughter got her first ball gown this year.
My SIL didn't think it was funny at all when I ask him if he liked
that ball gown on his daughter as much as mine.

 

[MistyMorning]

I am not sure if the post above about clips and magazines is directed at me, but I apologize for being ignorant about guns. I don't have an interest in them and like many women, I am not familiar with most of the terms. My husband has many guns for hunting, but I really don't pay much attention to that interest. It was my husband who was trying to explain the type of guns involved and all I understood was that the guns did not have to be reloaded until they had shot 20 or more bullets each. That seems like something no person who is not either in the military or law enforcement should ever own. We have a lifetime membership in the gun club across from the college, and I suppose I should try to learn more, but the last thing I need is to be holding a gun that I can't bring myself to shoot. I am much more likely to be shot with my own gun, than I am to shoot someone.

This whole thing has been extremely difficult for everyone in this community, and anyone who implies it would not have happened if someone did something different is just being hurtful. Today while delivering calves, we drove past the college entrance several times. I could not stop crying every time I saw that corner covered in flowers and signs. Anyone who thinks that if they had been there with a gun, it would not have happened, is an idiot. I don't know if any kind of gun control would slow this problem down, but those people who run out and buy more guns because they are afraid their freedom is being challenged are just as insensitive as the people who suggest gun control for political motives. Too many people only seem to care about how this affects them. The victims are unreal to them.

Katpau, ignore the ignorance of the poster, it was an inappropriate response to someone who is in the heat of the fire, how can they ever understand what your community is going through? I too am just an ignorant gun owner. I know how to shoot a skunk, porcupine and misc other rodents native to our area. I also love to bird hunt, ducks, pheasant and partridge. Deer hunting season is just to cold in this area to get excited about. I will under any circumstance defend my home from an invader, and carry a side arm when riding horse out alone. I often misspeak on gun terminology, so what, big deal.
I too have had my community devastated by a mass school shooting Red Lake massacre, 10 dead. The impact on the individuals and community are still felt to this day as I work with some of the students from that school. I am so sorry for what your community is going through. Take time, support each other.

 

[M-5]

First of all I only clarified terminology. And I never made lite of this tragedy. But any person that believes GUNs are the problem is the only ignorant ones here. This is a social, mental problem within our society. If your knowledge of weapons is limited I suggest reserving your judgement on things you don't understand. Any person can carry 100s of rounds in 10 round magazines and it only takes split seconds to change them.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

First of all I only clarified terminology. And I never made lite of this tragedy. But any person that believes GUNs are the problem is the only ignorant ones here. This is a social, mental problem within our society. If your knowledge of weapons is limited I suggest reserving your judgement on things you don't understand. Any person can carry 100s of rounds in 10 round magazines and it only takes split seconds to change them.