Anybody up?? Need smarts this morning!

[Kathie in Thorp]

Short story - Heifer calved about 8:30 last night, no problems, but small calf. Mama did all the right mothering things as far as cleaning off, etc., but was super agitated, so we didn't go in the pen with her. As of midnight, I hadn't seen baby on it's feet yet. Not as of an hour ago, either. Will check again shortly, but we're now at about 10 hrs. after delivery and I want to make sure the calf is mobile, up, and eating -- without getting stomped! Best practice ?? Thx.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

And, yes, we have OB pen/chute, and packaged colostrum, if needed.

 

[Alan]

This questions has been posted many times over the years, you may get a quicker clearer plan by doing a search. But when you get a new born it may be hard to catch them up and/or nursing. What I have learned to do is to look at mamas teats, I can usually tell if they have cleaned off or if a quarter has been milked. I think it's much more stress to keep popping in and checking every once in a while. But with that said there may be a time you'll need to go in and make sure the calf can get up and looks strong. One reason I calve in the pasture if the calf has move and is laying several feet away from it's previous resting spot and mom is attentive I know the calf should be fine.

One thing about this questions is you'll get lots of different opinions, yes the calf needs colostrium in the first 24hrs, but if it's strong and gets up on it's own don't push the issue.

JMO,
Alan

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I tried SEARCH this morning, Alan. For some reason, I often get a response that says I can't search now and to try again later. ?? We're trying not to bug them. Observing from outside the pen, which is about 60+ X 100.

Anyway, the little bugger is now up, fairly steady on her (I think) feet, pooping what she SHOULD be pooping, and figuring out faucets. Cow is still nervous. Will check in a few hours; I think everything's going to be fine. Thanks!

 

[TexasBred]

Is the calf laying in the same spot it was in yesterday? Any evidence of movement at all?

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Texas Bred, my last post and yours must have crossed in the mail. Looks like everthing's okay 12 hrs. later. And, yes, last night the calf was trying to get up, laying on chest, head up and seemed pretty alert. I guess it just took him/her/it most of the night to wake up. I'd be surprised if this little BWP baby weighs 40 lbs. Will update you in a day or two, or earlier if anything else comes up.

I bugged you midwest and eastern guys early because I didn't want to wake up my cattle-guy neighbor. Thanks!

 

[TexasBred]

Good deal Kathie. Mom should handle it from here. ;-)

 

[rockridgecattle]

on the colostrum side of things, yes a calf should get the colostrum in before th 24 hour mark is up. It is however, prefered that the first suck be within the first two hours and the second suck about 6 hours later, then more later on.
The reason for the first two is...one the calf needs energy and is born with a blank immunity. That early suck provides so much protection. The second is just as important. Once the first suck happens, the gut or rather the intestines start to shut off the passive transfer (PT) sooner. It speeds up the process.
Finally, a calf who has had a bit of a rough start because of weather, hard birthing, slow to start, mothering problems, failure of passive transfer becomes a problem. A stressed calf, one who does not go for the teat right away, will need more colostrum to fill the PT requirements. For a reason which escapes me now, is PT is relative to the stress a calf is under. The more stress, the less likely a good PT happens.

 

[hillsdown]

If I am unsure if the calf has drank I will stick a finger in it's mouth, if it is warm they they have drank. Don't know how well that would work with summer calving though, but in -30 weather ,it is a really good indication .

Glad the calf is doing well.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

This heifer calf is tiny --- TINY! Mabye 30 lbs.?? We took a scale out to the barn . . . . but . . . put her and mom (who had settled down) into the barn tonight, in a 16 X 30 or stall this evening. We were able to catch baby, too-late iodined her naval. There are divider panels in the barn spaced about 10 inches apart -- HD cattle panels. That baby scooted right through them. So, then we put up hog panels around the stall! Spunky, but little. She is nursing; has passed mec. crap; follows Mom around. Didn't get a chance to weigh after doing all that. OMG! Was told by bull owner that this was a good heifer bull, but . . . . . . . . .

 

[vclavin]

This heifer calf is tiny --- TINY! Mabye 30 lbs.?? We took a scale out to the barn . . . . but . . . put her and mom (who had settled down) into the barn tonight, in a 16 X 30 or stall this evening. We were able to catch baby, too-late iodined her naval. There are divider panels in the barn spaced about 10 inches apart -- HD cattle panels. That baby scooted right through them. So, then we put up hog panels around the stall! Spunky, but little. She is nursing; has passed mec. crap; follows Mom around. Didn't get a chance to weigh after doing all that. OMG! Was told by bull owner that this was a good heifer bull, but . . . . . . . . .

Kathie, just keep in mind. Cows are responsible for most of the birth weight. Bulls have a much smaller influence. Usually a lb or so, but also influence body shape. Environment plays a large part in the calf size too.
Valerie
PS. Glad to hear she is OK

 

[VanC]

This heifer calf is tiny --- TINY! Mabye 30 lbs.?? We took a scale out to the barn . . . . but . . . put her and mom (who had settled down) into the barn tonight, in a 16 X 30 or stall this evening. We were able to catch baby, too-late iodined her naval. There are divider panels in the barn spaced about 10 inches apart -- HD cattle panels. That baby scooted right through them. So, then we put up hog panels around the stall! Spunky, but little. She is nursing; has passed mec. crap; follows Mom around. Didn't get a chance to weigh after doing all that. OMG! Was told by bull owner that this was a good heifer bull, but . . . . . . . . .

Kathie, just keep in mind. Cows are responsible for most of the birth weight. Bulls have a much smaller influence. Usually a lb or so, but also influence body shape. Environment plays a large part in the calf size too.
Valerie
PS. Glad to hear she is OK

What factor has the greatest influence on birth weight of calves?

Experimentally, birth weight can be influenced by a variety of factors. However, extensive research has proven that in all practical, "real life" situations, the birth weight of the sire of the calf has the greatest impact on the birth weight of the calf.

 

[raykour]

1st.....the search function does that to me often, and it drives me bonkers.

2nd...I have a first calf heifer (who would have liked to have stomped me) who also had a teensy little guy, 40 lbs. He has grown up just fine and looks like a normal 10 week old calf now.

3rd...though I saw this calf up and nursing (and the way I tell is to look at the udder and also to see if the face hair is all messed up and streaked...they have at least been trying if it is) there were two occasions where his mother lost him in a 20 acre field. She parked him and then ran around bawling looking for him. I found him and tried to get him up so she could see him. No dice. The little sucker wouldn't stand up for anything. I tried picking him up and putting him on his legs and he would just go boneless. So in the end I ended up dragging him to an open spot int he grass where she could see him better. Momma comes up and the little bugger jumps right up.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Sorry, I haven't looked at this for a couple of days.

Well, this little girl is spunky and nursing -- only on one side so far, but have not seen anything that would alarm me about the other side. When the cow settled down on Monday (she calved Sunday evening), we moved them into a good-sized, in-barn pen so she'd get lots of personal attention from her first-time mama. We'll put them back out into a bigger area on Saturday, when we're home to keep an eye out for issues, but she's not ready to meet yearling steers and such yet out in the bigger pastures.

Our good friend, young veterinarian, came out last night (who only does horses and small critters -- does NOT deal with cattle), and she said, "OMG! She's even smaller in real life than in pictures! I've never seen such a small calf! I can deal with cattle that size." :lol:

The AI bull I used (I purchased semen from 2 bulls/same owner) was recommended to me by the semen seller to use on a first-timer. So, I guess I can't sqwuak about calf size, until I use him again and see what we get. She actually calved 13 days ahead of the Cattletoday gestation table time-frame.

Anyway, that's the update! She's a spit-fire in a tiny package. And if you've followed "Calf Dilemna" on the Beginner's Board . . . . she's TINKERBELL (as our neighbor chokes!). :banana:

Thanks, all for your concern and advice! It's much appreciated.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

P.S. Sometimes I wonder if we're just incredibly lucky; and then, sometimes I thank God that He lets us be lucky! K

 

[vclavin]

This heifer calf is tiny --- TINY! Mabye 30 lbs.?? We took a scale out to the barn . . . . but . . . put her and mom (who had settled down) into the barn tonight, in a 16 X 30 or stall this evening. We were able to catch baby, too-late iodined her naval. There are divider panels in the barn spaced about 10 inches apart -- HD cattle panels. That baby scooted right through them. So, then we put up hog panels around the stall! Spunky, but little. She is nursing; has passed mec. crap; follows Mom around. Didn't get a chance to weigh after doing all that. OMG! Was told by bull owner that this was a good heifer bull, but . . . . . . . . .

Kathie, just keep in mind. Cows are responsible for most of the birth weight. Bulls have a much smaller influence. Usually a lb or so, but also influence body shape. Environment plays a large part in the calf size too.
Valerie
PS. Glad to hear she is OK

What factor has the greatest influence on birth weight of calves?

Experimentally, birth weight can be influenced by a variety of factors. However, extensive research has proven that in all practical, "real life" situations, the birth weight of the sire of the calf has the greatest impact on the birth weight of the calf.

If that were true, then we'd see 65lb calves out of holsteins that normally have 125lb calves!
Valerie

 

[VanC]

Kathie, just keep in mind. Cows are responsible for most of the birth weight. Bulls have a much smaller influence. Usually a lb or so, but also influence body shape. Environment plays a large part in the calf size too.
Valerie
PS. Glad to hear she is OK

What factor has the greatest influence on birth weight of calves?

Experimentally, birth weight can be influenced by a variety of factors. However, extensive research has proven that in all practical, "real life" situations, the birth weight of the sire of the calf has the greatest impact on the birth weight of the calf.

If that were true, then we'd see 65lb calves out of holsteins that normally have 125lb calves!
Valerie

I didn't do the research. I'm just telling you what they're telling me.

We also look at birth weight in females, but birth weight selection in females is less critical because an individual female does not have the numerical impact that a bull will have. It takes 30 cows to moderate the birth weight influence of a single high birth weight bull, but it only takes one bull to moderate a high birth weight cow, and that is the bull we are probably using anyway.

http://www.becktonredangus.com/BKT-BrthWt.htm

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Just an update -- TINKERBELL is nearing her 2-week BD, and she's doing great for a little smidgeon of a critter! Nursing, running, jumping, napping, checking out mom's hay and sniffing at water.

I have not done the research yet for everything everyone is posting about whether or not the bull or the cow contributes the most toward calf weight, but the foremost question in my mind on that topic is, "Why do people advertise bulls as 'heifer bulls' if the bull doesn't play a major part in birth weight?" That's just my ignorant question . . . . .

 

[thommoos]

With a calf that small are you sure of the breed date you said it was an AI bull with LWB, That being said did she go 283 or less, I believe that a calf put on a 1/2 pound of wieght every day the last 30 days.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Thommoos -- I'm probably confusing people with my BW abbreviation -- bull and cow are both British Whites; am not referring to "birth weight." I'm certain of the AI date, and there was no live bull anywhere around before or after. This cow calved 16 days short of 283 (bred 11/21/10; calved 8/14/11); 283 days would have been next week on Aug. 30. She was a first-calf heifer.