Any Update on Charlo

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angus9259

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I know this has been discussed in the past - just wonder now that he's been out there a while if there's any new observations on Coleman Charlo. I usually wait 4-5 years after introduction to try a bull so there's plenty of real feel out there for him. His price is coming down and Coleman doesn't seem to be using him as heavily.

Thoughts?
 
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angus9259

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Allow me to ask the question differently -

Are there any personal experiences on this board that would support or contradict the EPDs.
 

Ebenezer

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angus9259 said:
Allow me to ask the question differently -

Are there any personal experiences on this board that would support or contradict the EPDs.

Should be some of both as EPDs are averages.

This question always come to mind: Do you believe in EPDs? Folks scour the catalogs and sales for the right, better and best EPDs but always look for individual and specific answers if they want an animal to be better than the average. Human nature. How do you contradict an EPD?
 
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angus9259

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I support the use of EPDs. I use them myself. If someone were to say "I retained quite a number of Charlo heifers and didn't have any calving issues" - it would be a contradictory reflection relative to what one might have "E"xpected.

Am not trying to start an EPD debate or plumb the philosophical question of "what is truth". Just wondering if anyone has any personal experience with Charlo calves and how they turned out.

So let me summarize:

1. Have you had Charlo calves? If "yes" go to question #2 and #3
2. What did you think?
3. Have you retained Charlo females?
4. What did you think?
 

Ebenezer

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angus9259 said:
I support the use of EPDs. I use them myself. If someone were to say "I retained quite a number of Charlo heifers and didn't have any calving issues" - it would be a contradictory reflection relative to what one might have "E"xpected.

Am not trying to start an EPD debate or plumb the philosophical question of "what is truth". Just wondering if anyone has any personal experience with Charlo calves and how they turned out.

So let me summarize:

1. Have you had Charlo calves? If "yes" go to question #2 and #3
2. What did you think?
3. Have you retained Charlo females?
4. What did you think?
Sorry, Bud, I don;t take your orders. I can skip all 4. The bull has a lot of reporting and fairly high accuracy and has been used mainstream to tie into the EPD system. If he were an old bull or not mainstream then I would agree and discuss biased skew in EPDs. No, I have not used him because small framed cattle take a $250+ dock at the barns here. Figure that one out with or without EPDs. It goes like this: lost potential = # of calves X -$250+. It ain't pretty. You're welcome.
 
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angus9259

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Ok.

Apologize for hurting your feelings.

Certainly meant to order no one around. Just a simple Sunday question.

Take care.

:tiphat:
 

Josher

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I have not used him but I’ve noticed that he is in the background of a lot of good bulls. So that tells me, if used selectively u can get good results. Id use him on bigger cows with good growth that maybe need a little thickness and easy fleshing
 

VaCowman

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I'm with Josher. I've never used him, but he does show up in a lot of pedigrees. Personally, I do not like him as good as some of his sons. I think the Coleman program has quite the reputation for cattle that work for the cattleman. I believe if you protect him, or his sons, on height, they will work. No bull is perfect, but he's got to be doing several things right to get those higher accuracies and end up in the lineage of some popular bulls. The only Charlo influenced bull I've used is Rainfall. Those babies are still baking, so I can't speak as to how they are just yet.
 

Dsth

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I had 3 heifers that I kept out of him. they all three seemed fairly docile when out with the rest of the cows/calves, but one would go crazy when in the head catch. she got sold as a feeder instead of keeping for a replacement. both of the other two have calves on them right now. Both are short and stocky, have nice shallow udders, and both seem to be raising nice calves. both are easily excitable when running through the chute (the worst two in my herd.) I like my cattle to be nice and docile, so they will probably not be long time keepers. I have one of my bigger cows with a heifer out of him this year, and she seems taller and did not get exited when first round of vaccinations done. planning on keeping her for replacement.
 

Stickney94

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This is a great thread succinctly showing the tension between EPDs and Anecdote.

I'd ask -- what is it about Charlo that draws your interest? If those check boxes fit your program there are certainly worse options.

At the same time, the EPDs are pretty clear on potential issues with offspring. But if your cows balance those areas -- that is the art of breeding.
 

gizmom

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We have used Charlo quite a bit at this point. The negatives he will put some snort in them not extreme but certainly not docile. We weed out temperament at weaning so far none have got worse as they aged the temperament has shown up early. He will reduce frame size but matching him up to the right female just works. His sons are extremely easy to sell and his daughters are going to be his ultimate legacy. They breed up wean excellent calves, maintain condition and have beautiful udders. We just delivered a cow to Bickett Genetics that we have flushed twice to Charlo in the past the first flush this go round will be back to Charlo. The first flush I got 8 calves 7 bulls and one heifer. The heifer weaned her first calf with a 101 ratio bred back AI first time through the chute. Her 7 flush brothers were the first 7 bulls sold as long yearlings. One of my best bull calves again this year is out of the 2nd flush to Charlo and 0524 but this year I got 3 heifer calves and only one bull. Our son pulled one of the heifers up to halter break but turned her back out to much heat for an 8 year old, not crazy but definitely not docile. Hopefully I can get some additional eggs in the tank.

Gizmom
 

W.B.

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Stocker Steve said:
He threw mostly fancy bulls for me too.
Seemed like a great bull to use on Herefords. :hide:

Expect crossbred calves to be more variable for disposition so if he is siring Angus with less than ideal disposition expect the crossbreds to be higher strung still. Has always worked that way here.
 

Ky hills

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W.B. said:
Stocker Steve said:
He threw mostly fancy bulls for me too.
Seemed like a great bull to use on Herefords. :hide:

Expect crossbred calves to be more variable for disposition so if he is siring Angus with less than ideal disposition expect the crossbreds to be higher strung still. Has always worked that way here.

That makes sense, no dealings with that bull, but have had a few BWF that were pretty rank.
 

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