Another school shooting

[Brute 23]

These shooters are cowards. They go after "easy" targets. Let teachers CC and this will stop.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Broward county went over 2 to 1 for the dumocrats. The schools need armed security, and armed teachers. In this day and age there's no way something like this should happen again. Schools are supposed to be safe zones and law enforcement is to blame for this travesty.

Grit, you raise an interesting point. I had the opportunity to talk with one of our local police sergeants last night while I was at work. He informed me that they can not recruit or retain enough officers to meet their allotted positions. He claims this is a nationwide problem that will continue to get worse over time. Not a lot of interest to work a high risk, low reward career; especially with risk of media and attorneys scrutinizing your job performance. All for a starting pay under $40k.

That's a shame cops save way more lives and work harder than a firemen. Do away with the firemen and hire more cops.

 

[bball]

Broward county went over 2 to 1 for the dumocrats. The schools need armed security, and armed teachers. In this day and age there's no way something like this should happen again. Schools are supposed to be safe zones and law enforcement is to blame for this travesty.

Grit, you raise an interesting point. I had the opportunity to talk with one of our local police sergeants last night while I was at work. He informed me that they can not recruit or retain enough officers to meet their allotted positions. He claims this is a nationwide problem that will continue to get worse over time. Not a lot of interest to work a high risk, low reward career; especially with risk of media and attorneys scrutinizing your job performance. All for a starting pay under $40k.

That's a shame cops save way more lives and work harder than a firemen. Do away with the firemen and hire more cops.

Can't dynamite your way onto the local fire dept. Blood in, blood out practically.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Grit, you raise an interesting point. I had the opportunity to talk with one of our local police sergeants last night while I was at work. He informed me that they can not recruit or retain enough officers to meet their allotted positions. He claims this is a nationwide problem that will continue to get worse over time. Not a lot of interest to work a high risk, low reward career; especially with risk of media and attorneys scrutinizing your job performance. All for a starting pay under $40k.

That's a shame cops save way more lives and work harder than a firemen. Do away with the firemen and hire more cops.

Can't dynamite your way onto the local fire dept. Blood in, blood out practically.

Definitely who you know not what you know in the FD.

 

[greybeard]

The systematic break down of the family unit is where this begins... The majority of these boys are being raised by absentee single mothers who have more than enough on their plate just making the ends meet. They are left to their own devices during formative years. They dwell on the fringe socially during JR high school and high school, (where children are at their most vicious) and many endure tremendous amounts of mental, physical and emotional torture from their peers. They lack the coping skills to navigate the negative behavior;compounded by the fact they have little to no support system at home. This creates a victim mentality that seeks revenge against humanity in general. Just angry, destructive young men with no empathy or compassion, or value for human life. I firmly believe it starts with the breakdown of the family unit.

If that were true, there would be a massacre at every jr high and high school in the country...and in every teen social gathering venue every week. There isn't. There's much more to it than just the 'poor Little Johnny; mommy wasn't around much & didn't love him daddy didn't hug him' thing.

You grossly over generalized what I wrote There is certainly a genetic factor to mental illness and also an environmental factor. I simply initiated the environmental possibilities. Can't ignore the commonality of the environments these kids come from. But your probably right, the destruction of the family unit, especially since the 1960's, really hasn't negatively impacted our society at all :roll:

I did no more generalization than you did in the post I quoted.

 

[greybeard]

Broward county went over 2 to 1 for the dumocrats. The schools need armed security, and armed teachers. In this day and age there's no way something like this should happen again. Schools are supposed to be safe zones and law enforcement is to blame for this travesty.

Grit, you raise an interesting point. I had the opportunity to talk with one of our local police sergeants last night while I was at work. He informed me that they can not recruit or retain enough officers to meet their allotted positions. He claims this is a nationwide problem that will continue to get worse over time. Not a lot of interest to work a high risk, low reward career; especially with risk of media and attorneys scrutinizing your job performance. All for a starting pay under $40k.

And yet, the Army/Marines* very very rarely miss a recruiting or retention quota goal monthly or annually and if they do, it's only by a few % points even as they are raising their qualifications. Not exactly a low risk or high reward occupation either, and yes, they are both scrutinized constantly by media and the public.
Pay, is much higher than when I enlisted but still far below $40K/yr. Less than 1/2 that.
$1600/mo for an E-1 (what used to be called a buck private) currently X 12 months= $19,200.
https://www.federalpay.org/military/marine-corps
What makes this high risk group different than Law Enforcement professionals?

*I used those 2 branches because they historically, are most likely to be shot at in comparison to USN/USAF/USCG.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Broward county went over 2 to 1 for the dumocrats. The schools need armed security, and armed teachers. In this day and age there's no way something like this should happen again. Schools are supposed to be safe zones and law enforcement is to blame for this travesty.

Grit, you raise an interesting point. I had the opportunity to talk with one of our local police sergeants last night while I was at work. He informed me that they can not recruit or retain enough officers to meet their allotted positions. He claims this is a nationwide problem that will continue to get worse over time. Not a lot of interest to work a high risk, low reward career; especially with risk of media and attorneys scrutinizing your job performance. All for a starting pay under $40k.

And yet, the Army/Marines very very rarely miss a recruiting or retention quota goal monthly or annually and if they do, it's only by a few % points even as they are raising their qualifications. Not exactly a low risk or high reward occupation either, and yes, they are both scrutinized constantly by media and the public.
Pay, is much higher than when I enlisted but still far below $40K/yr. Less than 1/2 that.
$1600/mo for an E-1 (what used to be called a buck private) currently X 12 months= $19,200.
https://www.federalpay.org/military/marine-corps
What makes this high risk group different than Law Enforcement professionals?

Education.

 

[Aaron]

Mental illness is an easy generalized cop-out. It is basic society. Contstructs life goals for kids at each stage of their life and ostracizes or critiques those who don't fit those plans. These are the clothes you will wear, these are the people you will associate with, these will be the classes you will take, these are the grades you will get, these are the extra curricular so you will do, these are the people you will take a sexual interest in, etc, etc.

I knew a guy in my high school grade, James, that wanted to execute multiple people in the school - preppy, obnoxious people who thought they were better than everyone else and made it known, teachers who accepted such behaviour, etc. Mentioned a few times to me about bringing a gun to school, but said he would give me a 'heads up' as I was one of the 'good guys' . Wiping the filth and sin from the school was his plan. He was very religious. Carried the Bible around with him all the time and was very quick to quote scripture to students and teachers alike. Very nice guy, and we got along well, liked to debate ideologies. He actually went on to become an ordained minister. But he would get so disgusted with people and their sin that I thought for sure he was going to 'clean house' one day.

"Disconnected youth" they call them. Blame it on mental illness. Not always - I don't buy it.

 

[haase]

Bball, your point about the difference in schools and were kids grow up is true, I feel that suburban kids today are raised without a lot of skills period or how to deal with problems that aren't on their phone or computer, one of the guys that works for me got a call from his neighbor this weekend, he was out of town and wanted him to go help his daughter who got a flat tire alongside a road which he did, he gets there she is crying, 19 years old and her boyfriend sitting in the car beside her, neither one of them even knew were the spare tire was, point is if these kids aren't taught simple things at a young age how are they going to deal with them when they get older, guess were seeing it today with the snowflakes.

 

[greybeard]

Grit:
I'm fairly certain that most local PDs, county Sheriff Depts now require a high school diploma or at least a ged and IIRC, many prefer the applicant to have some college, if not at least a 2 yr degree of some kind.

For Marine enlisted, the requirements are the same.

U.S. Marine Career Info
Degree Level High school diploma or GED

Both law enforcement and military are now high tech operations. My nephew's son (high school graduate) just tested for Police Academy in Liberty County, and the aptitude test he described sounded a lot like the military written test that potential military enlistees have to take and score good on. (he did well on it) There may be a few older members already in either occupation without education but they aren't accepting dummies in either anymore, like they did when I enlisted in the 60s.

 

[bball]

Grit, you raise an interesting point. I had the opportunity to talk with one of our local police sergeants last night while I was at work. He informed me that they can not recruit or retain enough officers to meet their allotted positions. He claims this is a nationwide problem that will continue to get worse over time. Not a lot of interest to work a high risk, low reward career; especially with risk of media and attorneys scrutinizing your job performance. All for a starting pay under $40k.

And yet, the Army/Marines very very rarely miss a recruiting or retention quota goal monthly or annually and if they do, it's only by a few % points even as they are raising their qualifications. Not exactly a low risk or high reward occupation either, and yes, they are both scrutinized constantly by media and the public.
Pay, is much higher than when I enlisted but still far below $40K/yr. Less than 1/2 that.
$1600/mo for an E-1 (what used to be called a buck private) currently X 12 months= $19,200.
https://www.federalpay.org/military/marine-corps
What makes this high risk group different than Law Enforcement professionals?

Education.

Bingo! State Police require a bachelor's, Local LE want at least an associates. Any federal LE agency requires a bachelors last i checked.(some may accept prior military service in lieu)
Military branches= HS diploma or GED. Also, the military services dedicate a significant amount of hours and financial resources to recruitment via advertising on a national scale and MOS dedicated to active recruitment.

 

[JW IN VA]

Breakdown of family.Breakdown of morals.Underfunded mental health. "Treat and Street" approach to mental issues.Social media available to kids with no parental supervision.Schools and other places which are "gun free" so are soft targets. "It's everyone's fault but mine" mentality.
Every one of the above is a contributing factor. Another,which no one seems to address, is the message many of the video games I have seen boil down to the same plot.You go from "A" to "B" taking out as many as you can without being killed yourself.And,if you get "killed" there's always a do-over.When kids spend hours doing this,it becomes a part of their response to things. Like auto-pilot,if you will.
Maybe if we had some real consequences for "bullying", parental oversight on social media and a society which would allow parents to be parents it would help.Yes, and parents be parents.When you bring a child into the world,they are your responsibility and your focus.Your days of doing whatever,whenever are over until they leave home.Oh,you didn't get to do everything you wanted before they were born?Tough.You should have waited until you got all that out of your system before taking on that responsibility.The schools can't raise them.The sports teams and clubs can't raise them.It's your job and you don't turn it on and off with a switch.Might be good if you used the same "switch" parents used when I grew up.It didn't injure us and we didn't shoot up the town when we were hurt by people.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Breakdown of family.Breakdown of morals.Underfunded mental health. "Treat and Street" approach to mental issues.Social media available to kids with no parental supervision.Schools and other places which are "gun free" so are soft targets. "It's everyone's fault but mine" mentality.
Every one of the above is a contributing factor. Another,which no one seems to address, is the message many of the video games I have seen boil down to the same plot.You go from "A" to "B" taking out as many as you can without being killed yourself.And,if you get "killed" there's always a do-over.When kids spend hours doing this,it becomes a part of their response to things. Like auto-pilot,if you will.
Maybe if we had some real consequences for "bullying", parental oversight on social media and a society which would allow parents to be parents it would help.Yes, and parents be parents.When you bring a child into the world,they are your responsibility and your focus.Your days of doing whatever,whenever are over until they leave home.Oh,you didn't get to do everything you wanted before they were born?Tough.You should have waited until you got all that out of your system before taking on that responsibility.The schools can't raise them.The sports teams and clubs can't raise them.It's your job and you don't turn it on and off with a switch.Might be good if you used the same "switch" parents used when I grew up.It didn't injure us and we didn't shoot up the town when we were hurt by people.

This makes too much sense, can't do it.

 

[bball]

Breakdown of family.Breakdown of morals.Underfunded mental health. "Treat and Street" approach to mental issues.Social media available to kids with no parental supervision.Schools and other places which are "gun free" so are soft targets. "It's everyone's fault but mine" mentality.
Every one of the above is a contributing factor. Another,which no one seems to address, is the message many of the video games I have seen boil down to the same plot.You go from "A" to "B" taking out as many as you can without being killed yourself.And,if you get "killed" there's always a do-over.When kids spend hours doing this,it becomes a part of their response to things. Like auto-pilot,if you will.
Maybe if we had some real consequences for "bullying", parental oversight on social media and a society which would allow parents to be parents it would help.Yes, and parents be parents.When you bring a child into the world,they are your responsibility and your focus.Your days of doing whatever,whenever are over until they leave home.Oh,you didn't get to do everything you wanted before they were born?Tough.You should have waited until you got all that out of your system before taking on that responsibility.The schools can't raise them.The sports teams and clubs can't raise them.It's your job and you don't turn it on and off with a switch.Might be good if you used the same "switch" parents used when I grew up.It didn't injure us and we didn't shoot up the town when we were hurt by people.

Spot on assessment. The vast majority of kids will survive a broken home or video gaming and be 'ok'(which is why we don't see shootings daily in every town in this nation); however, there is a small percentage that will not, and these are the ones(damaged, unhealthy coping mechanisms, mentally/emotionally damaged) that will act out against humanity with these extreme measures. People want to ignore the facts, but bottom line is: you are mentally/emotionally unstable if you open fire on a group of defenseless, innocent people. It is of value to try to understand how these kids got to that place, so that perhaps identifying solutions/prevention to this problem can begin because thoughts and prayers havent stopped this from happening and this nation has been thinking and praying since Columbine.

 

[JW IN VA]

A lot of kids have,unfortunately,had to deal with broken homes and turned out well.Its a lot to do with how you are taught to react to life.Some people who behave badly do so because they have never had to deal with things not going their way."It's some else's fault"."That's okay,Daddy will get another".
Two things we need to teach our children.Maybe begin shortly after Dada and Mama:

Life's not far-learn to deal with it.

There is no free lunch-somebody pays for it
Oh yeah,and three.Treat others like you would want them to treat you and help anybody who needs help.

 

[greybeard]

"It's everyone's fault but mine" mentality.

And, ""It's everyone's fault but theirs" mentality."
This is a big part of it. There is no shortage of 'apologists' ready to point fingers somewhere, everywhere, anywhere but at the shooter. This last shooter was 19. By that time, everyone knows right from wrong...everyone. These guys know the sociologists will point fingers elsewhere from the git go. Making excuses for aberrant behavior makes it all the more acceptable to those who have these kind of latent tendencies to begin with. For the vast majority of those with that kind of hidden thought process, it isn't acted upon because of fear and shame, but some figure there will be no shame anyway because there will be plenty of people that will step up & offer public defacto excuses FOR them. We see it happening here in this thread.

 

[bball]

"It's everyone's fault but mine" mentality.

And, ""It's everyone's fault but theirs" mentality."
This is a big part of it. There is no shortage of 'apologists' ready to point fingers somewhere, everywhere, anywhere but at the shooter. This last shooter was 19. By that time, everyone knows right from wrong...everyone. These guys know the sociologists will point fingers elsewhere from the git go. Making excuses for aberrant behavior makes it all the more acceptable to those who have these kind of latent tendencies to begin with. For the vast majority of those with that kind of hidden thought process, it isn't acted upon because of fear and shame, but some figure there will be no shame anyway because there will be plenty of people that will step up & offer public defacto excuses FOR them. We see it happening here in this thread.

Maybe you do, but I don't see anyone making excuses for the shooters. Attempting to identify variables that contribute to this behavior? Absolutely. But you couldn't be more wrong if you believe I am making excuses for the shooter. I made it very clear that anyone who would do that is emotionally/mentally unstable. Healthy people do not behave in such a manner. Understanding how these people get to this point is paramount in understanding the problem and how to prevent and/or remedy. No different than what the FBI has done with respect to serial killers/sociopaths. A normal person doesn't think like these people, so you attempt to gain insight with any and all info available. It's pretty basic problem solving.

 

[Bright Raven]

"It's everyone's fault but mine" mentality.

And, ""It's everyone's fault but theirs" mentality."
This is a big part of it. There is no shortage of 'apologists' ready to point fingers somewhere, everywhere, anywhere but at the shooter. This last shooter was 19. By that time, everyone knows right from wrong...everyone. These guys know the sociologists will point fingers elsewhere from the git go. Making excuses for aberrant behavior makes it all the more acceptable to those who have these kind of latent tendencies to begin with. For the vast majority of those with that kind of hidden thought process, it isn't acted upon because of fear and shame, but some figure there will be no shame anyway because there will be plenty of people that will step up & offer public defacto excuses FOR them. We see it happening here in this thread.

Maybe you do, but I don't see anyone making excuses for the shooters. Attempting to identify variables that contribute to this behavior? Absolutely. But you couldn't be more wrong if you believe I am making excuses for the shooter. I made it very clear that anyone who would do that is emotionally/mentally unstable. Healthy people do not behave in such a manner. Understanding how these people get to this point is paramount in understanding the problem and how to prevent and/or remedy. No different than what the FBI has done with respect to serial killers/sociopaths. A normal person doesn't think like these people, so you attempt to gain insight with any and all info available. It's pretty basic problem solving.

I don't see it either.

If anyone here has a solution they are real proud of, send it to the POTUS. I just caught part of his address to the nation on the shooting. He emphasized mental health issues. The immediate response is increased security.

 

[greybeard]

"It's everyone's fault but mine" mentality.

And, ""It's everyone's fault but theirs" mentality."
This is a big part of it. There is no shortage of 'apologists' ready to point fingers somewhere, everywhere, anywhere but at the shooter. This last shooter was 19. By that time, everyone knows right from wrong...everyone. These guys know the sociologists will point fingers elsewhere from the git go. Making excuses for aberrant behavior makes it all the more acceptable to those who have these kind of latent tendencies to begin with. For the vast majority of those with that kind of hidden thought process, it isn't acted upon because of fear and shame, but some figure there will be no shame anyway because there will be plenty of people that will step up & offer public defacto excuses FOR them. We see it happening here in this thread.

Maybe you do, but I don't see anyone making excuses for the shooters. Attempting to identify variables that contribute to this behavior? Absolutely. But you couldn't be more wrong if you believe I am making excuses for the shooter. I made it very clear that anyone who would do that is emotionally/mentally unstable. Healthy people do not behave in such a manner. Understanding how these people get to this point is paramount in understanding the problem and how to prevent and/or remedy. No different than what the FBI has done with respect to serial killers/sociopaths. A normal person doesn't think like these people, so you attempt to gain insight with any and all info available. It's pretty basic problem solving.

I don't doubt that one bit, but I can assure you that is exactly how THEY and those like them see it.
You did it again:

....anyone who would do that is emotionally/mentally unstable. Healthy people do not behave in such a manner

As is the press: (From an NBC article today)

Other pieces of Cruz's life are becoming clear. His mother died in November, and he had been living with a family whose son is a junior at Douglas for almost three months, "without any concerns or issues," the family's lawyer told NBC Miami.

From Washington Post:

His father died a few years ago, and his mother, among the only people with whom he was close, died around Thanksgiving. He was living at a friend's house. He was showing signs of depression....Broward County Mayor Beam Furr told CNN that Cruz had been receiving treatment at a mental health clinic for a while but that he had not been to the clinic for more than a year. "It wasn't like there wasn't concern for him," Furr told CNN. "We try to keep our eyes out on those kids who aren't connected. … In this case, we didn't find a way to connect with this kid."

Cruz apparently fell off the radar, but he was having a rough time.

Roger Cruz — who along with his wife, Lynda, had adopted Nikolas — died of a heart attack several years ago. Then in November, Lynda Cruz, 68, died of pneumonia, according to her sister-in-law, Barbara Kumbatovic.

With her death, Cruz and his half-brother lost one of the only relatives they had left, according to family members and friends.

"Lynda was very close to them," Kumbatovic told The Post. "She put a lot of time and effort into those boys, trying to give them a good life and upbringing."

One boy was quiet and seemed to stay out of trouble, but Nikolas kept having problems at school, Kumbatovic said.

"Lynda dealt with it like most parents did. She was probably too good to him," Kumbatovic said.

All this will play significantly into his attorney's defense presentation and the jury will most likely be chosen to most closely reflect acceptance that the 19 yr old had come from a home not of a traditional 2 parent setting. This slippery slope began long ago with psychologists explaining that young kids "were just acting out and they'll grow out of it" instead of telling their parents the kid needs their butt whipped.

They're murdering bastard criminals, period.

 

[bball]

So you believe a mentally stable person does that? I do not. That is not how normal, sane, healthy people behave.
He is 19. Try him as an adult for murder. Shyt, give him the Grit treatment. Heck, youre more the champion of morality on CT than i am. But gain as much insight as possible before termination. Does no good if we dont start focusing on how to prevent this and attempting to understand what leads up to this is a vital step in the process. It doesnt excuse the behavior to identify it as being mentally or emotionally unstable. Rational, healthy people do not commit such behaviors. Period.